Me Myself
Back to my username
I'm unsure of what part of "NO" or "STOP" can be misunderstood here. Stop means stop, NOW, not "when you get around to it". Is this a difficult concept?
You ever played musical chairs? The rules are very easy.
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When Can Someone Change His or Her Consent to Sex?
- Thread starter Sunstone
- Start date
You ever played musical chairs? The rules are very easy.
Draka
Wonder Woman
Excuse me, but there are plenty of rape cases that are are such. If a woman feels threatened she may not put up much of a fight, doesn't mean she gave consent. In those cases isn't it just "he said she said"? Are you saying that in order for there to be actual rape there must be some other kind of evidence? Some witness? Some actual physical evidence such as cuts and bruises indicating a fight or attack? In cases where a knife or other weapon is held to a person and sex is demanded and the victim must lay there and not fight back (perhaps they are just petrified) and there are no witnesses, what else is there but "he said she said"? And why should it not be good enough in the case of "I agreed to have sex with this guy, but he got too rough midway through and it started to hurt a lot and I told him to stop but he wouldn't"?
Me Myself
Back to my username
Yeah, just saying that.
Then they debate it for two pages and then they say "yeah sure, but that s obvioous, why do you argue that? No one is saying you are machines, thats so obvious"
Me Myself
Back to my username
No, i think he is saying it needs to be beyond reasonable doubt that e man raped the woman.
You know, because it is better to let a perpetrator free than to put in jail an inocent man.
Draka, to me, the solution to this problem is to make a list and people can check this list before having sex. Think about it, which would affect this person more, going to prison for a few years or being on a don't screw list for life?
Many young men might be more considerate if they thought their name might make this list.
Many young men might be more considerate if they thought their name might make this list.
Okay...
Only initially. But the link in the OP shows how clearly rape can present itself in a case where sex was initally consented.
This is no different than what rape crisis centers, peer counselling groups, law enforcement, and the courts have to face anyway. As have been evidenced throughout this thread, and other threads that discussed the rape case in Stuebenville, OH, the subject of rape is misunderstood by a lot of people. I've brought it up before how people are culturally conditioned to think of a "legitimate" rape as one where a lone stranger jumps out of the bushes and brutally attacks a conservatively-dressed middle class white woman while she's walking to her car or to her house. But such a rape as that is extemely rare, while the vast majority of rapes are committed by someone the victim knows.
We need to re-think what rape actually looks like. And that is when somebody does not stop when the partner says "No" or "Stop" or any agreed safe word. That's the reality, not the picture of the stalker jumping out of the bushes. How long did it take before the courts began convicting spouses of marital rape, because the definition did not include spousal rape to be a possibility? There is still the assumption, at least from this thread, that once somebody starts they have a really difficult time stopping, and that the partner needs to understand that and forgive that and please-don't-send-me-to-prison kind of talk.
What fixes that worry and concern is very simple. Teach sexually active people to pay attention to their partner. Not timing seconds between thrusts to determine whether a request to stop is responded to in time to be legally classified as consensual sex. Paying attention to one's partner and ensuring both people are enjoying the act however agreed upon results in immediately stopping the act once a partner puts up a red flag.
Even in professional sports, once a referee or umpire calls "TIME OUT!", anything that happens after that single moment in time does not count as part of the game. There is no grace period after the umpire calls time. The game stops immediately.
I don't know how to make this any simpler. The rules are as follows: if your partner says "stop" or "no", then just stop.
dawny0826
Mother Heathen
Evidence and testimony ultimately determines the weight of a criminal case, does it not?
Most level headed people, when they engage in sexual activity, are respectful human beings who exercise caution, communicate with their partner and ultimately don't have to worry about such accusations.
Rape happens and it's devasating and we can't discount the devastation that can ensue from an encounter between two people who supposedly know and trust each other. It happens. There's physical and emotional abuse within marriages, for crying out loud.
A conviction of rape may be challenging to achieve if evidence and testimony, I imagine, isn't convincing enough. Someone may not be convicted of rape, but, the process can still yield a better outcome for the victim. These scenarios should serve as a reminder to all of society, that people need to take personal responsibility when engaging in sexual activities with other people. Be smart.
Most level headed people, when they engage in sexual activity, are respectful human beings who exercise caution, communicate with their partner and ultimately don't have to worry about such accusations.
Rape happens and it's devasating and we can't discount the devastation that can ensue from an encounter between two people who supposedly know and trust each other. It happens. There's physical and emotional abuse within marriages, for crying out loud.
A conviction of rape may be challenging to achieve if evidence and testimony, I imagine, isn't convincing enough. Someone may not be convicted of rape, but, the process can still yield a better outcome for the victim. These scenarios should serve as a reminder to all of society, that people need to take personal responsibility when engaging in sexual activities with other people. Be smart.
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Koldo
Outstanding Member
LOL not this again.
In our dance studio, we have a game called "freeze dance" we offer to students in some of our younger classes. Some of them are as young as 3 years old. They dance wildly, freely, quickly, with leaps and turns and bounces.
The rules are simple. They freeze the minute the music stops.
They all stop within a half a second and freeze. What gets them out of the game is if they can freeze in the pose they froze in, and if their balance gets the best of them....but they all DO FREEZE IMMEDIATELY.
For heavens sake.....3 year olds are able to have better self-control than what is being argued about here. The music stops, they freeze. Music starts, they dance. Music stops, they freeze.
I've been teaching for close to 25 years. Not once have I ever heard a parent or a student argue with me that the rules might not be all that fair because we can't expect a 3 year old to stop right away.
Can I say it again? 3 year olds having this kind of self-control shows that immediately stopping after receiving an outside command to stop is not only possible, but very very common.
3 year olds. Criminy....
Me Myself
Back to my username
Who is saying one should not stop after the other one says stop? One of ricks posts from back there saysmif the guy continues for around 30 secs then he obviously didnt care and is rape.
I d say the frame is shorter, but what I understand there is reaction time discussion. When someone in a game calls time out, everytng after doesnt count, but it takes a few seconds for the players to stop the action they were making.
Its like when I fought jiu jitsu at my dojo and the teacher said stop. If I was in the middle of a lock I would notice the stop after keeping trying it for a pair of seconds because I am focused in what I am doing, likewise when the lock is on me.
We humans take timem to react on anything outside the bedroom, was that not the case musical chairs would be a different game. I dont know why some people pretend to be human vibrators, or if they have improved so, pretend to have always been human vibrators.
I d say the frame is shorter, but what I understand there is reaction time discussion. When someone in a game calls time out, everytng after doesnt count, but it takes a few seconds for the players to stop the action they were making.
Its like when I fought jiu jitsu at my dojo and the teacher said stop. If I was in the middle of a lock I would notice the stop after keeping trying it for a pair of seconds because I am focused in what I am doing, likewise when the lock is on me.
We humans take timem to react on anything outside the bedroom, was that not the case musical chairs would be a different game. I dont know why some people pretend to be human vibrators, or if they have improved so, pretend to have always been human vibrators.
Alceste
Vagabond
Then stop arguing with us. (I don't mind if it takes you a couple posts to slow down the momentum, but no more than two.
)
Alceste
Vagabond
So, are you busy on Friday? :flirt:
Me Myself
Back to my username
Then stop arguing with us. (I don't mind if it takes you a couple posts to slow down the momentum, but no more than two.
Actually, you seem to be arguing with us.
So we alll agree sex should stop asaP (p meaning possible) since one of the partners says "stop" and we are all aware that momentum may take a pair of extra strokes (probably slower) or jerkings depending on the time, etc?
Alceste
Vagabond
That's ridiculous. Why not react as soon as you understand she wants you to stop? You think you're entitled to a few bonus humps? Why? What difference does it make?
WyattDerp
Active Member
So is the game. I think there is a connection there.
WyattDerp
Active Member
Alceste
Vagabond
Not only that, but a back and forth action is not sustained by the laws of momentum. Momentum would be more useful to help you continue on your way out of the vagina.
dawny0826
Mother Heathen
You're reading too much into this. Intentions matter. And it's obvious when your partner is listening to you and when they aren't.
If I've told my husband that something doesn't feel right and he needs to stop, it's evident by his reaction to what I've said, that he's heard me and he's preparing to stop. I don't have to worry.
Your analysis of seconds is ridiculous.
There's a difference between someone listening to you and heeding your objections and someone not listening to you and proceeding. Forcible penetration and contemplative pausing/stopping are two very different things.
Chill out.
Me Myself
Back to my username
That is what I am saying.
Happy New Year, Charlie Brown! - Musical Chairs - YouTube
Oh no charlie brown! You just sexually assaulted patty on what can only be completely on purpose slow reaction!
Me Myself
Back to my username
Not only that, but a back and forth action is not sustained by the laws of momentum. Momentum would be more useful to help you continue on your way out of the vagina.
And gravity back in. There is also muscle memory.
The movement continues until your brain tells it to stop.