When Can Someone Change His or Her Consent to Sex?

[MysticSang'ha]

I won't waste my time clicking on this link, because this entire argument is asinine in terms of consent and rape.

The well meaning partner will stop if asked to stop and reaction time will be a non issue. If it genuinely took you X number of seconds precisely to process what she is saying...she might repeat herself. Well, okay. As long as you're reacting in the manner that she has asked you to, there shouldn't be a problem.

And the majority of people on this thread, myself included, have not, in their intimate encounters, experienced a problem with this "reaction time" to where we'd be apt to accuse our partner of rape. I would think that this would come as a relief to you and other men.

As I've mentioned, most level-headed people who are intimate aren't out to destroy each other. Communication and understanding can usually be achieved.

Unless you're a numbskull and lose all sense of reality during intimacy...this shouldn't be an issue. You should be able to enjoy the heat of the moment and also pay attention.

You're perceiving something that wouldn't translate to being an issue unless you went out of your way to ignore the wishes of your partner.

I personally think the arguments stem from a paranoia and mistrust from who might be potential partners, and that they fear they might be victimized from someone who might be out to get them with an accusation of rape.

And I agree with you 100%, btw. :yes:

 

[ChristineES]

Things have changed since my marriage 21 and a half years ago. By this thread alone it appears that people use sex as control rather than pleasure. Since the act of sex isn't pleasurable to me except on those rare occasions when I could climax, then sex without completing the act seems pointless and if it doesn't pleasure my husband it is totally pointless unless we wanted to have a baby (I am 47 years old, a little bit too old to suddenly want another child). I can understand stopping if there is distress-either emotional or physical. But, honestly, I can think of other ways to get close to another person (ie, my husband) without actually engaging in sex- petting, kissing, etc rather than sex.
I can't imagine telling my husband "Stop, I don't feel like doing this anymore", and I wouldn't- I can imagine I am seeing this whole conversation wrong- I mean I must be. I must be missing something

I guess it all comes down to the fact that I've always been the type of person who likes to finish things that I've started.

Question: HAS sex become more about control?

 

[Reverend Rick]

So you agree that Rick's original position that up to ten seconds is a reasonable amount of time to spend getting used to the idea that your partner wants you to stop is indefensible?

If you're not sure, clamp some jumper cables onto your testicles and count to ten before reacting to the discomfort.

First off, I never said 10 seconds was acceptable I asked if it was. Reading is fundamental.

Trying to make my post something it is not just goes to prove that you need to make my position worse than it is speaks volumes.

Second, as someone who likes to play with candle wax, I find 10 seconds of jumper cables arousing.

Third, when you play musical chairs, you are expecting to stop which would not apply to sex.

Lastly, your position sounds like how you would make love to a women for the very first time who has never had sex before.

Are you OK? Are you OK, Are you OK? Are you OK? Are you OK?

Not a very satisfying situation for the man to say the least. Anyone worrying about 10 seconds of discomfort needs to be kicked to the curb.

That said, the couple should discuss this and make sure it does not happen ever again.

Expecting perfect communication during sex is unrealistic. Can anyone say that every sexual experience has been 100% enjoyable 100% of the time?

What a pile of flaming crap! Nothing is perfect every time.

 

[Reverend Rick]

"Your Honor, I had consensual sex with this man for 10 minutes and 10 seconds of this time was painful, haul his butt to prison!".

Judge: "Young lady, did this man stop before copulating?"

"Why yes he did but I feel he took too long to stop, send this man to prison!?.

 

[ChristineES]

That said, the couple should discuss this and make sure it does not happen ever again.

The truth is, you should talk about every aspect of it before you engage in it. I would agree that most people need to know what to expect. That is why I think, personally, that it shouldn't be done outside of at least love for the other person.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Rhetorical? or self-evident?

The question is rhetorical. The answer is self-evident.

Need clarification on anything else rhetorical or self-evident?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Things have changed since my marriage 21 and a half years ago. By this thread alone it appears that people use sex as control rather than pleasure. Since the act of sex isn't pleasurable to me except on those rare occasions when I could climax, then sex without completing the act seems pointless and if it doesn't pleasure my husband it is totally pointless unless we wanted to have a baby (I am 47 years old, a little bit too old to suddenly want another child). I can understand stopping if there is distress-either emotional or physical. But, honestly, I can think of other ways to get close to another person (ie, my husband) without actually engaging in sex- petting, kissing, etc rather than sex.
I can't imagine telling my husband "Stop, I don't feel like doing this anymore", and I wouldn't- I can imagine I am seeing this whole conversation wrong- I mean I must be. I must be missing something

I guess it all comes down to the fact that I've always been the type of person who likes to finish things that I've started.

Question: HAS sex become more about control?

You are absolutely missing something. But you yourself shared why. Sex is rarely pleasurable for you, and the act of sex alone has taken on a meaning of your husband having an orgasm in order for it to qualify as legitimate sex. You don't gain pleasure from it, and it sounds like you don't even seek pleasure from it.

Of course it seems strange to you to hear other people say that consent means honoring somebody's boundaries when you yourself have none in your sex life. It's all about your husband's orgasm. That sex is a "wifely duty", in a way. It's an antiquated view, to be frankly honest, but you're not the only couple that claims that this is how sex in a marriage looks like.

I could be wrong, but this is what you shared, and what I read from it.

 

[ChristineES]

You are absolutely missing something. But you yourself shared why. Sex is rarely pleasurable for you, and the act of sex alone has taken on a meaning of your husband having an orgasm in order for it to qualify as legitimate sex. You don't gain pleasure from it, and it sounds like you don't even seek pleasure from it.

Of course it seems strange to you to hear other people say that consent means honoring somebody's boundaries when you yourself have none in your sex life. It's all about your husband's orgasm. That sex is a "wifely duty", in a way. It's an antiquated view, to be frankly honest, but you're not the only couple that claims that this is how sex in a marriage looks like.

I could be wrong, but this is what you shared, and what I read from it.

You're almost right. I don't like sex. If I never had it again, I would not miss it at all. As for being a "wifely duty", no, that is not what I think I am doing. Marriage is about give and take- my husband totally enjoys sex. So even though I didn't enjoy it, I let him have it and he gives to me in other ways things he doesn't enjoy. Sort of a "swap", although that isn't really what I am doing , either. I wanted to make him happy and I always thought he wanted to make me happy, too. (My husband doesn't care about my happiness and has admitted it to me. We are now more like roommates and stay in the same home for the children- another antiquated idea, but I was raised in a one parent home and I suffered because of it and that is a whole other discussion).

I just believe that there is give and take in any good, healthy relationship. And I just don't believe in sex outside of a relationship for reasons I have read in this and other discussions on the subject. In some cases, although not all, some people become "attached" after a sexual encounter- they think they are in love even when they are not. Or they may mistakenly believe that the person who had sex with them is love, although sex is not the same as love and never has been. And there are many other reasons why I see things this way.

The way you were right is that I gave my husband sex for his own pleasure and not for something we could actually share- I never had any pleasure in it at all or if I did have any, it was rare. The reasons were different, though, than what you said- I didn't do it because I felt I had to.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

I personally think the arguments stem from a paranoia and mistrust from who might be potential partners, and that they fear they might be victimized from someone who might be out to get them with an accusation of rape.
:

Yeah I call it misogyny

 

[MysticSang'ha]

You're almost right. I don't like sex. If I never had it again, I would not miss it at all. As for being a "wifely duty", no, that is not what I think I am doing. Marriage is about give and take- my husband totally enjoys sex. So even though I didn't enjoy it, I let him have it and he gives to me in other ways things he doesn't enjoy. Sort of a "swap", although that isn't really what I am doing , either. I wanted to make him happy and I always thought he wanted to make me happy, too. (My husband doesn't care about my happiness and has admitted it to me. We are now more like roommates and stay in the same home for the children- another antiquated idea, but I was raised in a one parent home and I suffered because of it and that is a whole other discussion).

I just believe that there is give and take in any good, healthy relationship. And I just don't believe in sex outside of a relationship for reasons I have read in this and other discussions on the subject. In some cases, although not all, some people become "attached" after a sexual encounter- they think they are in love even when they are not. Or they may mistakenly believe that the person who had sex with them is love, although sex is not the same as love and never has been. And there are many other reasons why I see things this way.

The way you were right is that I gave my husband sex for his own pleasure and not for something we could actually share- I never had any pleasure in it at all or if I did have any, it was rare. The reasons were different, though, than what you said- I didn't do it because I felt I had to.

Thank you for clarifying more your position. I am sorry that your husband does not care about your happiness. That must be difficult and lonely sometimes, though at this point, his refusal to care about your happiness has become something you have become acclimated to. I don't know about anyone else, but my heart goes out to you. :hug:

I think where the disconnect is between what you are seeing in the debate, then, is that those others of us who have responded have different relationships and different sexual experiences. I have been very fortunate that the vast majority of lovers I've had are very attentive to my needs and boundaries since I am very attentive to theirs. I wouldn't trade it for the world. And my own marriage is full of exploration, honest communication, patience, understanding, and forgiveness.

Is it messy from time to time? Yes, because life is full of surprises. People are unpredictable. **** happens (sometimes literally, lol). But love and care are enduring and, for lack of a better phrase, conquers all. It's why I have continued to say over and over and over again in this thread that if the partners involved in the sex gave a damn about each other, then consent is not really an issue, boundaries and desires are communicated, and all is honored and respected.

 

[Alceste]

Things have changed since my marriage 21 and a half years ago. By this thread alone it appears that people use sex as control rather than pleasure. Since the act of sex isn't pleasurable to me except on those rare occasions when I could climax, then sex without completing the act seems pointless and if it doesn't pleasure my husband it is totally pointless unless we wanted to have a baby (I am 47 years old, a little bit too old to suddenly want another child). I can understand stopping if there is distress-either emotional or physical. But, honestly, I can think of other ways to get close to another person (ie, my husband) without actually engaging in sex- petting, kissing, etc rather than sex.
I can't imagine telling my husband "Stop, I don't feel like doing this anymore", and I wouldn't- I can imagine I am seeing this whole conversation wrong- I mean I must be. I must be missing something

I guess it all comes down to the fact that I've always been the type of person who likes to finish things that I've started.

Question: HAS sex become more about control?

Aw, sweetie, I'm really sorry to hear this. I don't know where you got control from, but sex is supposed to be physically pleasurable for everybody involved. It's not something we do to please men. Women's sexual pleasure is more complex though, so making sure everybody is having a good time requires a lot of communication. Sometimes that's going to include asking your partner to slow down, do something different, or even stop if what they're doing isn't working for you, or if it's uncomfortable, or if you're in a painful spot emotionally.

None of the men I've been with have a problem with this approach. They enjoy giving me pleasure and appreciate my willingness to communicate how to make that happen.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Yeah I call it misogyny

Could be, but I'm not sure it's misogyny by itself. I think it's the cultural indoctrination of sexual accessibility by both genders, too.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

This thread is totally depressing the hell out of me. Seriously.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

This thread is totally depressing the hell out of me. Seriously.

:hug:

Education, persistence, and hugs for each other. :hug:

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Could be, but I'm not sure it's misogyny by itself. I think it's the cultural indoctrination of sexual accessibility by both genders, too.

Can you expand on this please I'm not quite sure what you mean, sorry for being slow. I think it's the cultural indoctrination of misogyny.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Can you expand on this please I'm not quite sure what you mean, sorry for being slow. I think it's the cultural indoctrination of misogyny.

That's okay. I was being vague because though I think that misogyny plays a large part in the indoctrination, that it isn't just sexual accessibility of a woman or parts of her, but sex in general. It's pervasive in how sex is tied up still with property rights, lineages and bloodlines, and justified by religious doctrine. That sex is assumed to be for procreation primarily, and ignorance with libidos, with female anatomy, with post-menopausal women, and with aging people in general.

 

[Me Myself]

ROFL the video shows just how fast people react to the music. It really doesn't help your case at all. Even the guy jumping around reacted within half a second. :biglaugh:

The jumping guy jumped three more times after the music stop.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

The jumping guy jumped three more times after the music stop.

Yeah, we watched the same thing, MM. Please, do yourself a favor and let this go. It's beyond ridiculous now. LOL

 

[Me Myself]

Yeah, we watched the same thing, MM. Please, do yourself a favor and let this go. It's beyond ridiculous now. LOL

So if he was having sex, those three more strokes after a "stop" are not rape as they are non intentional.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

So if he was having sex, those three more strokes after a "stop" are not rape as they are non intentional.

Seriously?

OMG, he stopped almost immediately, like within a half of a second. Not only that, but everybody else stopped almost immediately. You also failed to show the rest of the video that every other person responded instantaneously to the stopping of the music. You're wanting to show how many jumps one single guy did in the very beginning of the video to prove that if somebody lags for a bit after "stop" is mentioned, that they shouldn't be charged with rape?

Your argument and your video supporting your argument is beyond ridiculous. You really are not doing yourself any favors here.

Keep this up, young man, and I'll respond to all of these inane posts with pictures of jello.