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when is jesus speaking directly to his followers?

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
What does Jesus say about the
"the end of the world"

See Matthew chapter 24 and Luke chapter 21.

With all of the 'bad news' mentioned about 'men's kingdoms', at Matt 24v14 Jesus mentions the 'good news' of 'God's kingdom' would be proclaimed world wide before the end of the world of badness comes to its end and Jesus ushers in Peace on Earth toward men of goodwill.

We are in the last days of badness on earth.
We are in the end times of evil on earth.
God will bring to ruin those ruining the earth.
-Rev 11v18 B.
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
Interesting that you should mention Paul because Paul mentioned God's 7th day was still on going in his day at Hebrews 4vs4-10.
There is no close mentioned for the 7th day that started in Genesis.


huh?
There is no close mentioned for the 7th day that started in Genesis.
paul also said...
hebrews 1:1
In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.
:rolleyes:
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
huh?
paul also said...
hebrews 1:1
In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.
:rolleyes:

Hebrews 1v1 is in reference to Galatians 4v4.

There are different last days or different end of days.
Hebrews 1v1 is not the last days of 2nd Timothy 3vs1-15,13.

Just like the six creative days were followed by the seventh day or God's rest day from further creating. God did not create on the seventh day.
How long is the seventh day?
As Hebrews 4vs4-10 shows the seventh day is still on going for God's resting from his creating 'through whom God made the universe through Jesus'.
-Col 1vs15,16. In other words, Jesus was God's heavenly 'firstborn' meaning Jesus had a pre-human existence in the heavens before God sent him to earth. -Rev 3v14 B.
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
Hebrews 1v1 is in reference to Galatians 4v4.

There are different last days or different end of days.
Hebrews 1v1 is not the last days of 2nd Timothy 3vs1-15,13.

Just like the six creative days were followed by the seventh day or God's rest day from further creating. God did not create on the seventh day.
How long is the seventh day?
As Hebrews 4vs4-10 shows the seventh day is still on going for God's resting from his creating 'through whom God made the universe through Jesus'.
-Col 1vs15,16. In other words, Jesus was God's heavenly 'firstborn' meaning Jesus had a pre-human existence in the heavens before God sent him to earth. -Rev 3v14 B.

i don't understand how you can come to these conclusions?
it is absolutely mind boggling
he is writing to people who are loosing faith because jesus NEVER came back,
galatians has nothing to do with heb 1:1

what is this? different last days?
seems like a desperate clinging to an ideal for the ideals sake...

lets use your logic, shall we
the lord made garments...after the 7th day....

gen 3:21 The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them...
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
i don't understand how you can come to these conclusions?
it is absolutely mind boggling
he is writing to people who are loosing faith because jesus NEVER came back,
galatians has nothing to do with heb 1:1
what is this? different last days?
seems like a desperate clinging to an ideal for the ideals sake...
lets use your logic, shall we
the lord made garments...after the 7th day....
gen 3:21 The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them...

Just like in the English language, so too in the Hebrew language, the word 'create' and 'made' are two different words.
Yes, God 'made' garments out of already 'created' skins.

It is like when God 'created' light on day one, then on day four God 'made' the already created light do something.

Like a parent can create a child and then the already existing child can then be made to do something like go to school.
______________________________________________________________________

Different 'last days' ? One could say: yes.

Jesus first-century followers were in the 'last days of that Jewish system of things' that came to an end in the year 70 by Titus and the Roman armies.
-Luke 21vs20-21

So Luke chapter 21 and Matthew 24 have both a minor and a major fulfillment.
One, the ' minor' fulfillment for the last days of Jerusalem along with its temple and temple records destroyed, and the major fulfillment in our time frame or the time of Matthew 25 vs31,32 ahead of us.
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
Just like in the English language, so too in the Hebrew language, the word 'create' and 'made' are two different words.
Yes, God 'made' garments out of already 'created' skins.

It is like when God 'created' light on day one, then on day four God 'made' the already created light do something.

Like a parent can create a child and then the already existing child can then be made to do something like go to school.
______________________________________________________________________

Different 'last days' ? One could say: yes.

Jesus first-century followers were in the 'last days of that Jewish system of things' that came to an end in the year 70 by Titus and the Roman armies.
-Luke 21vs20-21

So Luke chapter 21 and Matthew 24 have both a minor and a major fulfillment.
One, the ' minor' fulfillment for the last days of Jerusalem along with its temple and temple records destroyed, and the major fulfillment in our time frame or the time of Matthew 25 vs31,32 ahead of us.

this is where you are mistaken
mark, the 1st gospel, was written AFTER the temple was destroyed.
hardly a fulfillment...
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
this is where you are mistaken
mark, the 1st gospel, was written AFTER the temple was destroyed.
hardly a fulfillment...

How do you know Mark was written 'after' the year 70?

While in Rome Mark wrote mostly for the Romans either during the first or second imprisonment of Paul.
Mark joined Paul in sending greetings to the Colossian Christians- Col 4v10
and greetings to Philemon -vs 23,24.
While still in prision Paul asked Timothy to bring Mark. -2nd Tim 4v11.
Mark [as Peter's spiritual son] was also in association with Peter in Babylon sending greetings.
1st Peter 5v13.
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
How do you know Mark was written 'after' the year 70?

While in Rome Mark wrote mostly for the Romans either during the first or second imprisonment of Paul.
Mark joined Paul in sending greetings to the Colossian Christians- Col 4v10
and greetings to Philemon -vs 23,24.
While still in prision Paul asked Timothy to bring Mark. -2nd Tim 4v11.
Mark [as Peter's spiritual son] was also in association with Peter in Babylon sending greetings.
1st Peter 5v13.

most biblical scholars agree mark was written 65-80


"Irenaeus wrote (Against Heresies 3.1.1): "After their departure [of Peter and Paul from earth], Mark, the disciple and interpreter of Peter, did also hand down to us in writing what had been preached by Peter." Note that Irenaeus had read Papias, and thus Irenaeus doesn't provide any independent confirmation of the statement made by the earlier author...."

Gospel of Mark

i recommend this too

FRONTLINE: from jesus to christ - the first christians: watch the full program online | PBS

if you want to read more from the 1st link...

"Nevertheless, even though the author may have been a disciple of Peter at some point, the author of the Gospel of Mark needn't have limited himself to Peter's preaching for his material. The NAB introduction says: "Petrine influence should not, however, be exaggerated. The evangelist has put together various oral and possibly written sources--miracle stories, parables, sayings, stories of controversies, and the passion--so as to speak of the crucified Messiah for Mark's own day."

"John P. Meier provides an example in which the author of Mark shows himself to be dependent on oral tradition. The story of the feeding of the multitude is found twice in Mark and once in John. Meier writes (A Marginal Jew, v. 2, pp. 965-6): "This suggests a long and complicated tradition history reaching back to the early days of the first Christian generation. Prior to Mark's Gospel there seems to have been two cycles of traditions about Jesus' ministry in Galilee, each one beginning with one version of the feeding miracle (Mk 6:32-44 and Mk 8:1-10). Before these cycles were created, the two versions of the feeding would have circulated as independent units, the first version attracting to itself the story of Jesus' walking on the water (a development also witnessed in John 6), while the second version did not receive such an elaboration. Behind all three versions of the miracle story would have stood some primitive form."

"The author of the Gospel of Mark does indeed seem to lack first-hand knowledge of the geography of Palestine. Randel Helms writes concerning Mark 11:1 (Who Wrote the Gospels?, p. 6): "Anyone approaching Jerusalem from Jericho would come first to Bethany and then Bethphage, not the reverse. This is one of several passages showing that Mark knew little about Palestine; we must assume, Dennis Nineham argues, that 'Mark did not know the relative positions of these two villages on the Jericho road' (1963, 294-295). Indeed, Mark knew so little about the area that he described Jesus going from Tyrian territory 'by way of Sidon to the Sea of Galilee through the territory of the Ten Towns' (Mark 7:31); this is similar to saying that one goes from London to Paris by way of Edinburgh and Rome. The simplist solution, says Nineham, is that 'the evangelist was not directly acquainted with Palestine' (40)."

The destruction of the Temple, which happened in 70 CE, is mentioned in v. 1-4. Leaving the temple area, a disciple said: "Teacher, look at the huge blocks of stone and the enormous buildings!" Facing the temple, Jesus responds: "You see these great buildings? Not one stone will be left upon another - all will be torn down." Peter and some others then question Jesus about the signs of the apocalypse privately, a tell-tale sign of Mark's redactional hand (instead of earlier well-known tradition).

In v. 5-8, the author speaks of "wars and rumours of wars," but "this is not yet the end." If ch 13 is speaking of the First Jewish Revolt, this indicates that some had predicted earlier that the end would come during the war, a view which the author must deny (or perhaps slightly modify, cf v. 24) after the fighting has ended. The author speaks of "famine" during this time when nation is rising against nation, and Josephus reports the horrors of pestilence and famine during the First Jewish Revolt.

Concerning v. 9-13, Robert Funk writes in The Five Gospels: "The sayings in Mark 13:9-13 all reflect detailed knowledge of events that took place - or ideas that were current - after Jesus' death: trials and persecutions of Jesus' followers, the call to preach the gospel to all nations, advice to offer spontaneous testimony, and the prediction that families would turn against one another are features of later Christian existence, not of events in Galilee or Jerusalem during Jesus' lifetime. The note about children betraying their parents may be an allusion to the terrible calamities that took place during the siege of Jerusalem (66-70 C.E.)"

Verse 14 says: "When you see the 'Abomination of Desecration' standing where it should not be - let the reader take note! - those in Judea must flee to the mountains." The parenthetical comment to "let the reader take note" underscores the fact that this speech was written for the Christians of Mark's time. The contemporary audience of Mark would understand very well what he was talking about, although the 'Abomination of Desecration' is a cryptic reference to us. The phrase is borrowed from Dn 9:27, where it refers to Antiochus profaning the Temple of Jerusalem c. 165 BCE (probably with an image of Zeus), although it has been adapted to the evangelist's times. In the context of the First Jewish Revolt, this probably refers to the profanation of the Temple by the Romans. Josephus tells us that the victorious soldiers raised their imperial standards and worshiped them in the holy place (Wars of the Jews 6.6.1).

Randel Helms comments on the reference to Daniel in the Gospel of Mark (op. cit., p. 8):

So Daniel's "time, times, and half a time" is three and a half years, or twelve hundred and ninety days. The author of Daniel was referring, with the "abomination of desolation," to the altar to Zeus that Antiochus IV established in the Jerusalem temple in December, 167 B.C.E., as I Maccabees 1:54 tells us. But in Mark's eyes, Daniel really was speaking of Mark's own time, the "time of the end," when another "abomination of desolation" was set up in the Jerusalem temple. For according to Josephus, the regular offering ceased in the temple in July, 70, the temple was burnt in August, and later that month the imperial Roman eagle was set up in the temple precincts and sacrifice was offered to it; then in September the temple was razed to the ground (Josphus, The Jewish War, Chapters 6, 7). Three and a half years thereafter would be early in the year 74. It should not be surprising that a first-century author might apply the Book of Daniel to the Jewish War; Josephus himself did so, he tells us, in the summer of the year 70, at the height of the seige (Josephus, 309).

Helms goes on to argue that the reference to the messianic pretenders in 13:21-22 suggests that the author of Mark wrote shortly after 70 rather than a few years before. Josephus tells us about Menahem, the son of Judas, as well as Simon, the son of Gioras, "both of whom were striking messianic pretenders." Helms states, "As far as Mark was concerned the Jewish War was over; there remained only the cosmic disorder and the Second Coming."
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
waitasec-

Peter did provide basic information to Mark. -[1Pt5v13]
Origen agrees. -The Ecclesiastical History, Eusebius VIxxv 3-7
Turtullian agrees.- The Ante-Nicene FathersVol III pg 350
Eusebius agrees.- as quoted by papias c.140 CE/AD

Mark would have also had other sources since Jesus early disciples met in Mark's mother's house Acts 12v12.

The 'young man' of Mark 14v51,52 is considered to be Mark
So Mark was not without personal contact with Jesus.


As far as Mark 11v1 remember there were two [2] Jericho's in Jesus day.
The old Jewish Jericho and the new Roman Jericho about one mile apart.
So as the people made their way out of the old city and approached the new city is when Jesus met the blind beggars.

Mark 7v31 Jesus departs from Capernaum for Tyre and Sidon many miles to the north beyond the border of Israel. From the coastal Sidon Jesus goes across the country toward the Jorden River so they can ford the waters around the Sea of Galilee and enter the region of the Decapolis east of the sea and climb the mountain there.
Matthew 4v25 has Decapolis as a region..-Mark 5v1; 2-20

Mark 13vs1-4 is in connection to Matthew 24vs1-3 and Luke chapter 21
So even if Jesus told his disciples privately did not mean they were to keep it a secret.
Telling privately would mean Jesus was not addressing the public in general.
Jesus was giving that information to his followers and then his followers would tell other followers who in turn would tell others.

The wars and rumors of wars have both a minor and a major fulfillment. One for the first century or 70 CE and one for out time frame. -Rev 12vs9,12

Mark 13v13 is connected Matthew 24v13. Again both a minor and major fulfillment.
Mark 13v10 is connected Matthew 24v14

Verse 14 what caused the desolation in 70 was the Roman armies. Luke 21vs20-24
As God used a political/military 'ax' in they year 70, and as he did in Ezekiel's day [7-9]
So too God will again use the political/military 'ax' to go against the world's religious sector that runs afoul and has proved herself false to God and his Word. With backing the United Nations can be strengthened to be God's modern-day desolater. Rev 17vs2,17; 18vs7,8.

Daniel's three and a half times is a day for a year so not 'days' but: years.-Num 14v34

Mark 13vs21,22 is in connection to the major fulfillment of our time frame.
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
waitasec-

Peter did provide basic information to Mark. -[1Pt5v13]
Origen agrees. -The Ecclesiastical History, Eusebius VIxxv 3-7
Turtullian agrees.- The Ante-Nicene FathersVol III pg 350
Eusebius agrees.- as quoted by papias c.140 CE/AD

Mark would have also had other sources since Jesus early disciples met in Mark's mother's house Acts 12v12.

The 'young man' of Mark 14v51,52 is considered to be Mark
So Mark was not without personal contact with Jesus.


As far as Mark 11v1 remember there were two [2] Jericho's in Jesus day.
The old Jewish Jericho and the new Roman Jericho about one mile apart.
So as the people made their way out of the old city and approached the new city is when Jesus met the blind beggars.

Mark 7v31 Jesus departs from Capernaum for Tyre and Sidon many miles to the north beyond the border of Israel. From the coastal Sidon Jesus goes across the country toward the Jorden River so they can ford the waters around the Sea of Galilee and enter the region of the Decapolis east of the sea and climb the mountain there.
Matthew 4v25 has Decapolis as a region..-Mark 5v1; 2-20

Mark 13vs1-4 is in connection to Matthew 24vs1-3 and Luke chapter 21
So even if Jesus told his disciples privately did not mean they were to keep it a secret.
Telling privately would mean Jesus was not addressing the public in general.
Jesus was giving that information to his followers and then his followers would tell other followers who in turn would tell others.

The wars and rumors of wars have both a minor and a major fulfillment. One for the first century or 70 CE and one for out time frame. -Rev 12vs9,12

Mark 13v13 is connected Matthew 24v13. Again both a minor and major fulfillment.
Mark 13v10 is connected Matthew 24v14

Verse 14 what caused the desolation in 70 was the Roman armies. Luke 21vs20-24
As God used a political/military 'ax' in they year 70, and as he did in Ezekiel's day [7-9]
So too God will again use the political/military 'ax' to go against the world's religious sector that runs afoul and has proved herself false to God and his Word. With backing the United Nations can be strengthened to be God's modern-day desolater. Rev 17vs2,17; 18vs7,8.

Daniel's three and a half times is a day for a year so not 'days' but: years.-Num 14v34

Mark 13vs21,22 is in connection to the major fulfillment of our time frame.




this might interest you

its about a 1,600 yr old bible
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
this might interest you
its about a 1,600 yr old bible

...and to think that the Bible written on such fragile paper has survived even though the Bible over the centuries has many enemies from without and within.

People can't get rid of it no matter how hard they have tried, and no one can stop the spreading of the good news of God's kingdom as Jesus foretold at Matthew 24v14. No ban in any country has succeeded.

How many Constitutions have lasted as long as the Constitution of the Mosaic Law? It ran the nation of ancient Israel for over 1,000 years.
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
...and to think that the Bible written on such fragile paper has survived even though the Bible over the centuries has many enemies from without and within.

People can't get rid of it no matter how hard they have tried, and no one can stop the spreading of the good news of God's kingdom as Jesus foretold at Matthew 24v14. No ban in any country has succeeded.

How many Constitutions have lasted as long as the Constitution of the Mosaic Law? It ran the nation of ancient Israel for over 1,000 years.

"And some familiar -- very important -- passages are missing, including verses dealing with the resurrection of Jesus, they said."

-people can alter it...and make it whatever they want it to be too
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
"And some familiar -- very important -- passages are missing, including verses dealing with the resurrection of Jesus, they said."
-people can alter it...and make it whatever they want it to be too

People can alter, yes, the clergy class has often done so to suit their agenda often political.

But as far as Bible canon [collection of Bible books] the canon was established early on so the churches merely testified to what was already accepted as reliable canon. Ancient manuscripts support the canon.

So what verses dealing with Jesus resurrection are missing?
The four gospels put together give us a complete picture.
 

mohammed_beiruti

Active Member
i am very curious as to how christians decipher when jesus is talking to them personally through the bible or when he is only speaking to the crowd or a particular person. for example;

in the famous John 3:16 jesus is having a conversation with nicodemus
but somehow that conversation, in the minds of EVERY christian, can be applied to everyone, then and now

but when jesus is talking to a certain ruler, in luke 18, who asks; "what must I do to inherit eternal life?" even though he has followed all the commandments
jesus replies with "You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

this commandment is mentioned TWICE in the gospels and this commandment in john is only mentioned ONCE.

even when he is speaking to a crowd or to his disciples he says,
not all of you will taste death before the son of man will come with power in his kingdom...

how do you decode the scripture and figure out when his words are meant FOR YOU TODAY?

may be "son of man" means goyim, because if we suppose that he is a jew he should be a son of God not a "son of man".

this verse assure what i m talking about

mat :
21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.


he is talking to jews , he said the kingdom will be given to another nation

which mean nessecerly goyims

so you shall not trace the jewish history for the glad tiding.

 

waitasec

Veteran Member
People can alter, yes, the clergy class has often done so to suit their agenda often political.

But as far as Bible canon [collection of Bible books] the canon was established early on so the churches merely testified to what was already accepted as reliable canon. Ancient manuscripts support the canon.

So what verses dealing with Jesus resurrection are missing?
The four gospels put together give us a complete picture.

mark 16:8 Trembling and bewildered, the women went out and fled from the tomb. They said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid.

what are your thoughts about this?
((The most reliable early manuscripts and other ancient witnesses do not have Mark 16:9-20.)) NIV

do you agree mark was the 1st gospel written?

and what are your thoughts about...

"Starting in the 19th century, textual critics have commonly asserted that Mark 16:9–20, describing some disciples' encounters with the resurrected Jesus, was a later addition to the gospel. Mark 16:8 stops at the empty tomb without further explanation. The last twelve verses are missing from the oldest manuscripts of Mark's Gospel.[57] The style of these verses differs from the rest of Mark, suggesting they were a later addition. In a handful of manuscripts, a "short ending" is included after 16:8, but before the "long ending", and exists by itself in one of the earliest Old Latin codices, Codex Bobiensis. By the 5th century, at least four different endings have been attested."
~wiki

the first council of nicaea was under the guidance of constantine.

The Pontifex Maximus (Latin, literally: "greatest bridge-maker") was the high priest of the College of Pontiffs (Collegium Pontificum) in ancient Rome. This was the most important position in the ancient Roman religion, open only to patricians until 254 BC, when a plebeian first occupied this post. A distinctly religious office under the early Roman Republic, it gradually became politicized until, beginning with Augustus, it was subsumed into the Imperial office. Its last use with reference to the emperors is in inscriptions of Gratian[1] (reigned 375–383) who, however, then decided to omit the words "pontifex maximus" from his title.[2][3]
The word "pontifex" later became a term used for Christian bishops,[4] including the Bishop of Rome,[5] and the title of "Pontifex Maximus" was applied within the Roman Catholic Church to the Pope as its chief bishop. It is not included in the Pope's official titles,[6] but appears on buildings, monuments and coins of popes of Renaissance and modern times.

Constantine did not patronize Christianity alone, however. After gaining victory in the Battle of the Milvian Bridge, a triumphal arch—the Arch of Constantine—was built to celebrate; the arch is decorated with images of Victoria and sacrifices to gods like Apollo, Diana, or Hercules, but contains no Christian symbolism.

~wiki
if god had a hand in this canonization, it's a contradiction that god would use constantine while allowing him to sacrifice to other gods...
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
waitasec-

Please remember Mark's gospel ends at chapter 16 verse 8.

The style of writing changes after verse 8.
There are no corresponding verses after verse 8 as there is with the rest of Mark.
Jerome and Eusebius both agreed Mark ends at verse 8
Also those last verses are missing from early manuscripts such as the Vat. 1209

Why do you say Mark was the first gospel written?
Matthew wrote about 8 years after Jesus death around the year 41
Mark did not write until about 60-65.

There is no proof that Constantine ever became a real follower of Christ.
Constantine allowed the pagans to retain pagan symbols and concepts thus forming a fusion religion out of pagan ideas and practices and mixing them with first-century Christianity and creating Christendom or so-called Christianity. That is why we see Christian names and labels attached to pagan or non-Christian traditions or customs.
That is also why we see overlapping similar religious concepts and ideas spread throughout the world today.

Do you think there could be any connection to the warning Luke wrote us [Acts 20 vs 29,30] that wolf-like clergy, dressed in sheep's clothing, would fleece the flock of God?

Also, do you recall Jesus illustration of the Wheat and the Weeds?
Genuine [wheat] Christians would grow together over the many centuries with the fake [weed/tares] Christians until the time of the harvest, or the time of separation of Matthew 25vs 31,32.
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
Why do you say Mark was the first gospel written?
Matthew wrote about 8 years after Jesus death around the year 41
Mark did not write until about 60-65.

mark was the 1st gospel written because you will find elements of mark in both matthew and in luke and from"Q" (the teachings of jesus).
you won't find elements of matthew or luke in mark. it is a widely accepted idea with most bible scholars.

"the Gospel of Mark or simply Mark, is the second book of the New Testament. This Canonical account of the life of Jesus is one of the Synoptic Gospels. It was thought to be an epitome, and accordingly, its place as the second gospel in most Bibles. However, most contemporary scholars now regard it as the earliest of the canonical gospels[1] (c 70)."

Gospel of Mark - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

you can also read
The Priority of Mark

There is no proof that Constantine ever became a real follower of Christ.
Constantine allowed the pagans to retain pagan symbols and concepts thus forming a fusion religion out of pagan ideas and practices and mixing them with first-century Christianity and creating Christendom or so-called Christianity. That is why we see Christian names and labels attached to pagan or non-Christian traditions or customs.
That is also why we see overlapping similar religious concepts and ideas spread throughout the world today.

well if you think about it, god is not consistent pertaining to "his eternal word". in the OT you have god condemning those who worship other gods and during the canonization of the NT constantine is worshipping other gods, why wasn't he struck down as the earlier rulers would have been?

the catholic church is what came out of this. you cannot deny this fact.
the pope and all of the traditions in catholicism have been influenced by rome.

Do you think there could be any connection to the warning Luke wrote us [Acts 20 vs 29,30] that wolf-like clergy, dressed in sheep's clothing, would fleece the flock of God?

Also, do you recall Jesus illustration of the Wheat and the Weeds?
Genuine [wheat] Christians would grow together over the many centuries with the fake [weed/tares] Christians until the time of the harvest, or the time of separation of Matthew 25vs 31,32.

to me, luke is referring to the jewish leaders that do not accept jesus as the messiah. luke's audience were greek.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
well if you think about it, god is not consistent pertaining to "his eternal word". in the OT you have god condemning those who worship other gods and during the canonization of the NT constantine is worshipping other gods, why wasn't he struck down as the earlier rulers would have been?
the catholic church is what came out of this. you cannot deny this fact.
the pope and all of the traditions in catholicism have been influenced by rome.
to me, luke is referring to the jewish leaders that do not accept jesus as the messiah. luke's audience were greek.

Isn't Luke audience in Acts [20v21] both to Jews and Greeks?
The flock of verse 29 is the 'Christian flock'.

You have good observations.

With the death of Jesus came the fulfillment of the Constitution of the Mosaic law. Constantine came after the Law.
Luke [Acts 20vs29,30] is also in connection to Matthew [ 24v24] for our day.
What would happen in between, or from the end of the first century to our day, is described by Jesus illustration of the genuine [wheat] and the fake [weeds/tares], or how genuine Christians would grow together with fake or counterfeit Christians until the time of the harvest, or the time of separation of our day or time frame.
-Matt 25v31,32.

Constantine is part of the 'weed' class. There will not be divine involvement until the time of Matthew 25v31. Then, at that time, Jesus takes the action described at Isaiah 11v4 and Revelation 19vs11,14,15.
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
Isn't Luke audience in Acts [20v21] both to Jews and Greeks?
The flock of verse 29 is the 'Christian flock'.

well his audience was mostly greco-roman. the greeks were a more educated people. consider luke is the only gospel where jesus reads...he is viewed as a scholar. biblical scholars have compared luke/acts to the novelistic literature of the time almost like an early christian romance novel...(my source is the front line documentary, have you seen it?) with the same type of exaggerated themes you would find in greek romance novels. and his audience would not feel as comfortable reading mark, a much more crude version of the gospel.


With the death of Jesus came the fulfillment of the Constitution of the Mosaic law. Constantine came after the Law.

so the "old law" is now null and void? thou shall not worship other gods doesn't apply and neither would thou shall not kill or steal or covet your neighbors wife...?

Constantine is part of the 'weed' class. There will not be divine involvement until the time of Matthew 25v31. Then, at that time, Jesus takes the action described at Isaiah 11v4 and Revelation 19vs11,14,15.

if constantine is part of the weed class, where then did christianity sprout from?
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
if constantine is part of the weed class, where then did christianity sprout from?

Constantine lived hundreds of years 'after' Christ.
Christianity sprouted in the first century with Jesus teachings.
The religious landscape changed with the time of Christ.
'After' the time of Christ 'weed-like Christians' began to flourish.
Fake Christians also, but after Christ, changed the religious landscape.
They adopted non-Christian ideas and concepts as 'Christian'.
So Constantine sprouted at the time pagan or non-Christians beliefs abounded.
So the 'church' created a fusion religion called Christendom.
That fusion religion was a mixture or blending of Christian names and labels attached to pagan traditions and practices that would now be passed off as Christian. -Acts 20vs29,30

This fusion or composite religion would exist until the time of the fulfillment of Revelation. It will not collapse upon itself. As in the past God used political or military forces to go against what was religiously false, so again God will use the political world to go against or turn against the world's religious sector that has run afoul playing false to God. First to go will be Christendom because she is the one who claims to follow Christ but proves herself false to him and his teachings.
 
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