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When is someone not a Christian?

Koldo

Koldo

Outstanding Member
diosangpastol said:
What you did is to decapitate the Body of Christ. You separated Jesus Christ, the head, from the Church, which is His body (Eph 1:22-23; Col 1:24). Unless Jesus' head is indeed somehow separated from His Body, then when one is following the Body, one is following the Head, Jesus Christ. So, to follow the Church, is to follow Christ, unless you believe that the Church Jesus Christ founded and gave authority to can lead someone away from Christ. You have developed a false dichotomy between Jesus and the Church. As if one can follow Jesus without following Jesus' Body, and as if one can follow Jesus' Body without following Jesus. You have rent asunder what God has joined together.

So, according to you, becoming a Christian is signing a membership card.
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Those are not the words of Jesus in Eph 1:22-23 and Col 1:24. So to be a Christian you don't have to abide by them.
 
diosangpastol

diosangpastol

Dios - ang - Pastol
ellenjanuary said:
As he knew would come to pass. In the garden, one disciple sought to preserve the moment that was Jesus, and restrict the momentum of the coming Christ; even though the act was one of love, Jesus scolded Peter by saying, "get behind me, Satan" Peter, the future Rock upon which the Church stands; the many holding to the comfort of the Presence of the Lord. The Christ, taking the step we all soon must; give up - everything - and take up the cross...

Which is to say, I'm jiggy with it; no one is ever "not a Christian," just as no one is ever not "image of god." But in the real world, of course; the "member" outcast by "peer group" is the one who... ;)
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are saying we have to give up everything including following His body, the Church?
 
Terrywoodenpic

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Neither God nor Jesus ever defined a "Christian". The Apostles would not have even recognised the word on its own. The very First followers of Jesus thought they were Jews.
 
Terrywoodenpic

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
free spirit said:
"TRUE" = genuine; in accordance with fact or reality. a true or genuine friend.

But God's truth is not only what is contrary to falsehood but it is also a state of holiness.
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The question in the OP was When is someone not a Christian?

We are now asking when is someone not a "Genuine" Christian ?

Ok, we have refined the "Type" of Christian, but it has in no way made the question any clearer. We Still have not defined what a Genuine Christian is.
Nor have we ascertained whether that is an agreed, and one and only, true Definition.
 
Mr Orange

Mr Orange

Meditate
Odion said:
Okay, it was a toss-up between putting it here or the Christianity DIR. I chose here because I'd like some suggestions from non-Christians as to what the person in question is.

Ok, so I know a gal who calls herself Christian. However, within her beliefs, she doesn't believe:

in the Biblical God ("and if he was real, he'd be NUTS.") She does believe in God, but not from the Bible, even approaching it as metaphorical
the Bible ("full of myths, and outdated rules")
in Heaven or Hell (reincarnation)
Jesus died for our sins, was resurrected, or performed miracles
Jesus was the Son of God any more than we are as humans
Trust Paul, at all
The virgin Mary was a virgin
in churches as useful
in the Trinity


She's said she is a Christian, though, just different-thinking.

So, when is someone not a Christian? Can someone not believe in ALL these, and still be Christian (to you)? Would this lady most likely be?

I know you don't need to believe ALL of these, btw, but I'm wondering where the 'disbelief' line is?
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Personally i would say this person is a Christian. Who are we to judge? As long as she claims to be a Christian, she is a Christian. Yet actions speak louder than words.
 
ellenjanuary

ellenjanuary

Well-Known Member
Mr Orange said:
Personally i would say this person is a Christian. Who are we to judge? As long as she claims to be a Christian, she is a Christian. Yet actions speak louder than words.
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Uh huh. We don't judge words, we judge actions... :D

Are you saying there are Christian actions? ;)
 
notthedalaidrama

notthedalaidrama

Member
Odion said:
Okay, it was a toss-up between putting it here or the Christianity DIR. I chose here because I'd like some suggestions from non-Christians as to what the person in question is.

Ok, so I know a gal who calls herself Christian. However, within her beliefs, she doesn't believe:

in the Biblical God ("and if he was real, he'd be NUTS.") She does believe in God, but not from the Bible, even approaching it as metaphorical
the Bible ("full of myths, and outdated rules")
in Heaven or Hell (reincarnation)
Jesus died for our sins, was resurrected, or performed miracles
Jesus was the Son of God any more than we are as humans
Trust Paul, at all
The virgin Mary was a virgin
in churches as useful
in the Trinity


She's said she is a Christian, though, just different-thinking.

So, when is someone not a Christian? Can someone not believe in ALL these, and still be Christian (to you)? Would this lady most likely be?

I know you don't need to believe ALL of these, btw, but I'm wondering where the 'disbelief' line is?
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from what I understand to be a christian you have to accept christ into your heart and ask for forgiveness of your sins. so as long as you do these two things then you are a christian; christ is the important factor in this and not Paul, heaven or hell. Thats my interpretation!

Namaste,

Lenny
looks nice in tights so they say!
 
F

free spirit

Well-Known Member
Terrywoodenpic said:
The question in the OP was When is someone not a Christian?

We are now asking when is someone not a "Genuine" Christian ?

Ok, we have refined the "Type" of Christian, but it has in no way made the question any clearer. We Still have not defined what a Genuine Christian is.
Nor have we ascertained whether that is an agreed, and one and only, true Definition.
Click to expand...

I believe that this is a true definition of a Christian we read in Roman 8:9, "However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to him." To have the Spirit of Christ is a fact beyond faith.
 
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diosangpastol

diosangpastol

Dios - ang - Pastol
ellenjanuary said:
I'm saying that the revelation of the Christ comes to the individual through the Holy Spirit. ;)
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I can agree with you if you mean private revelation. In contrast, public revelation which is God's definitive word to mankind, Jesus Christ, demands faith; because it is God himself who speaks to us through human words and the mediation of the living community of the Church. Faith in God and in his word is different from any other human faith, trust or opinion. The certainty that it is God who is speaking gives me the assurance that I am in touch with truth itself.
 
Terrywoodenpic

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
free spirit said:
I believe that this is a true definition of a Christian we read in Roman 8:9, "However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to him." To have the Spirit of Christ is a fact beyond faith.
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I have heard of God, his Son and the Holy Spirit.
What then is the spirit of Christ?

We all have the the essence of God within us, it is what gives us being.
 
F

free spirit

Well-Known Member
Terrywoodenpic said:
I have heard of God, his Son and the Holy Spirit.
What then is the spirit of Christ?
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The Spirit of Christ is also referret to as the spirit of God or the Holy spirit they are one and the same. let me explain; as you may know Jesus by dieing sinless created a holy human soul and inherited the spirit of God for we read in ACTS 2:32-33, "This Jesus God raised up again, to which we are all witness. Therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He has poured forth this which you both see and hear."
In other words God give himself to Jesus the man, who is the human form of himself thus uniting God and humanity, this was the will and plan of God from all eternity.
And we can also become heirs of God and joint heir with Christ if we believe and obey him.


We all have the the essence of God within us, it is what gives us being.
Click to expand...

The basic essence of God (or the image of God) that we inherited from Adam was corrupted by sin, so we need to receive the uncorrupted Spirit of Christ to lead us into repentance and be made Holy.
Click to expand...
 
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Terrywoodenpic

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
free spirit said:
The Spirit of Christ is also referret to as the spirit of God or the Holy spirit they are one and the same. let me explain; as you may know Jesus by dieing sinless created a holy human soul and inherited the spirit of God for we read in ACTS 2:32-33, "This Jesus God raised up again, to which we are all witness. Therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He has poured forth this which you both see and hear."
In other words God give himself to Jesus the man, who is the human form of himself thus uniting God and humanity, this was the will and plan of God from all eternity.
And we can also become heirs of God and joint heir with Christ if we believe and obey him.

The basic essence of God (or the image of God) that we inherited from Adam was corrupted by sin, so we need to receive the uncorrupted Spirit of Christ to lead us into repentance and be made Holy.
Click to expand...


I am happy for people to read what they like into the Bible.
even the "way out" ideas.
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