When it comes to Prayer 76% of Americans Don't Give a **** About the Constitution

[First Baseman]

I understand you are upset that no one will let you being flat out wrong slide, but all you had to do was stop posting...

You got your way. Enjoy it. It's end will be judgement and destruction. You will cry out for mercy but there will be no mercy found once judgement is rendered. Just like all nations, this nation too will be judged. And it will have earned its damnation in full if it will not repent.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I disagree with everyone on here except Sultan of Swing. I don't see it your way at all, quite the opposite, in fact.

I suppose religion will be made to slowly disappear in this country in spite of the first amendment and the fact that our forefathers wanted total freedom of religion.

Whatever. Continue teaching our children that their lives are meaningless, death is the end, drink and be merry today because tomorrow you perish. Your steadfast doctrines have this country in the mess it is in and things are getting worse. But that's okay, as long as God is stomped out and you can do as you will.

Maybe if you actually took the time to explain your positions on the various things discussed in this thread, you may be able to draw people in to your way of thinking; or at the very least, understand where you're coming from.
As it is, you refuse to explain your positions, so you shouldn't be surprised that you haven't convinced anyone of anything. You wouldn't even bother to explain to me what state/federal recognition of marriage has to do with religious freedom.


By the way, who is teaching children that their lives are meaningless??

 

[McBell]

You got your way. Enjoy it. It's end will be judgement and destruction. You will cry out for mercy but there will be no mercy found once judgement is rendered. Just like all nations, this nation too will be judged. And it will have earned its damnation in full if it will not repent.

Bold empty threats serve no purpose other than to reveal your insecurities.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You got your way. Enjoy it. It's end will be judgement and destruction. You will cry out for mercy but there will be no mercy found once judgement is rendered. Just like all nations, this nation too will be judged. And it will have earned its damnation in full if it will not repent.

Or not.

 

[McBell]

Maybe if you actually took the time to explain your positions on the various things discussed in this thread, you may be able to draw people in to your way of thinking; or at the very least, understand where you're coming from.
As it is, you refuse to do explain your positions, so you shouldn't be surprised that you haven't convinced anyone of anything. You wouldn't even bother to explain to me what state/federal recognition of marriage has to do with religious freedom.


By the way, who is teaching children that their lives are meaningless??

I get the distinctive impression that they are not his arguments.
That he is merely parroting something he heard or read and when gotten to the point that his source was out of info, he faltered.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It's end will be judgement and destruction.

Why should those who do not believe in your "judgement and destruction" be forced, by legal mandates, to live as if something they don't believe in is important?

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

It doesn't matter !
If you favor one religion over another then you have a state religion.

England is just incredibly backwards on certain matters.

What is the negative effect, if any, happening in England at the moment due to its established church?

As the saying goes, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

The distance from the school to the local mosque was a factor in the truancy that led to the current arrangement (kids would go for Friday prayers and just not come back to school), so it's just as valud to say that it's an issue of urban planning as it is about immigration.

Urban planning + mass immigration, problem solved.

The school, who has custody of the children in their care during school hours, hands kids over to the care of an imam and mosque volunteers and leaves them to do their own thing. When questioned about the arrangement, the school principal said that the kids weren't being supervised by school staff during prayer time.

Fun fact: in Ontario, clergy (of any religion) are legally entitled to access the public schools "in the area where they have pastoral charge." Before I could be admitted to a school as a volunteer, I had to pass a Vulnerable Sector Screening (an enhanced criminal background check for people working with kids or at-risk individuals). Imams and ministers don't have to do this.

I don't see why being a religious minister should excuse you from background checks when working with children. Either background checks for all or for none, I can see arguments for either case, I can't see them for excluding religious ministers.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

It isn't just "some benign prayer." Different religions have their different rituals for their practices of what may loosely be defined or described as a prayer. Are we going to allow Wiccans to use their candles and incense, and bring their athame to school? Those do tend to be a part of their own "prayer ritual." Muslims generally wash up first and then have a rug as a part of their prayers. What of scarification, cannabalism, self-flagellation, or Sun Dances? I don't think we'd be too happy if it including cutting out the hearts of sacrificial victims, but that too was a significant part of certain people's religion.

I'm specifically talking about Christian prayers, as that is the sort that I'd be happy with in public schools. Wiccans can have a private school if they aren't happy. Luckily in the UK people aren't that bothered...

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

The Federal Government did stay out of it until the states started rejecting the legal marriages of other states.

Soooo... stopped schools from doing prayers? I don't see the connection.

 

[crossfire]

Now it seems you are being diversionary...

what does the state labor laws have to do with the students?

Actually, I'm exploring options in case some yah-hoo or yah-hoos decide to prohibit moments of silence in schools because some students might use the opportunity to pray, and am looking for a way to make available regular, brief "silent meditation" (or another name for them) to students, as it seems that they can dramatically improve classroom performance, test scores, concentration, and sociability, according to some of the studies I have researched today.

 

[crossfire]

Actually, I'm exploring options in case some yah-hoo or yah-hoos decide to prohibit moments of silence in schools because some students might use the opportunity to pray, and am looking for a way to make available regular, brief "silent meditation" (or another name for them) to students, as it seems that they can dramatically improve classroom performance, test scores, concentration, and sociability, according to some of the studies I have researched today.

I want what is best for the students--politics be damned. If the students aren't getting brief rest times between learning periods, then this might be a possible contributing factor in stress-responses such as bullying and ADHD. If brief rest periods have been shown to be beneficial as the articles I've read demonstrate, I'm all for allowing them to the students, as this is not a waste of time away from studying, but a wise investment of time that will increase their quality of study and concentration, with fewer disruptions from restlessness.

 

[Koldo]

What is the negative effect, if any, happening in England at the moment due to its established church?

As the saying goes, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Considerable religious influence in the legislative chamber, for instance.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

What is the negative effect, if any, happening in England at the moment due to its established church?

As the saying goes, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Considerable religious influence in the legislative chamber, for instance.

• People being stuck with chancel liability payments which could render them bankrupt
• A branch of the government being allowed to operate outside the law (CofE was specifically excluded from the equal marriage bill passed by Westminster)
• Significant sums of money being diverted away from things like the welfare system (including the NHS) to fund repairs to unused churches
• The Anglican Church being being given preferential treatment in state financial assistance e.g. funded by taxes from non-Anglicans
• Reserved places for specifically Anglican bishops in the House of Lords which makes for a very imbalanced playing field

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I suppose my perspective is a bit skewed being a filthy Brit, we have an established church and bishops in the House of Lords, etc.

I still don't see a massive problem with it, why not just leave it to the states to decide?

Because the states have shown in the past and more recently that they're unwilling to abide by constitutional rulings and are willing to illegally abridge the rights of their citizens - witness all the 'religious freedom' laws being passed in states that disadvantage LGBTs post-equal-marriage ruling by the Supreme Court. Further, it's more desirable to have consistent recognitions & definitions of things across the states - especially when these things affect legal matters like inheritance, will-making etc.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Whatever. Continue teaching our children that their lives are meaningless

Uh, don't you believe in Original Sin? That is the ultimate theological equivalent of "their lives are meaningless".

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

People being stuck with chancel liability payments which could render them bankrupt

I don't really get this one, though it does ring a bell. Source?

A branch of the government being allowed to operate outside the law (CofE was specifically excluded from the equal marriage bill passed by Westminster)

CofE isn't a 'branch of government', it's an independent religious establishment.

Significant sums of money being diverted away from things like the welfare system (including the NHS) to fund repairs to unused churches

How much? I thought a significant proportion was also raised by donation.

The Anglican Church being being given preferential treatment in state financial assistance e.g. funded by taxes from non-Anglicans

State financial assistance where? Are you referring to the church repairs again?

Reserved places for specifically Anglican bishops in the House of Lords which makes for a very imbalanced playing field

They're all liberals anyway and most often agree with left-wing initiatives, they try to fit in with you lot but the poor sods still get rejected.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

Because the states have shown in the past and more recently that they're unwilling to abide by constitutional rulings and are willing to illegally abridge the rights of their citizens - witness all the 'religious freedom' laws being passed in states that disadvantage LGBTs post-equal-marriage ruling by the Supreme Court. Further, it's more desirable to have consistent recognitions & definitions of things across the states - especially when these things affect legal matters like inheritance, will-making etc.

I'm just talking about prayer in schools fam. Let poor old Texas have their prayers!

 

[McBell]

Soooo... stopped schools from doing prayers? I don't see the connection.

Then you should pay better attention to the tangent...

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

Then you should pay better attention to the tangent...

What if the tangent is too long and stretched... prayers in school is a benign thing, I will say again. To then extrapolate that to gay marriage as an analogy is strenuous.