When it comes to Prayer 76% of Americans Don't Give a **** About the Constitution

[Koldo]

Nonsense, as I've said before, in Britain (which has become very secular) there is hardly anyone who minds, in fact many non-Christians like prayers and hymns.

What about those who do mind ?

 

[Quagmire]

I disagree that there is any comparison between the traditions of prayer and Christmas.

Never said there was.

Christmas, whether observed for religious reasons or simply as a season of caring and being kind to one another is vastly different, IMO, than school led prayer. that, IMO, was more about Christianity being having been considered the nation's one religion and forcing that down the throats of innocent children. Christmas can observed or can be not, as it were.

I've never heard of anyone being shot for remaining seated and silent during the prayer at the beginning of a sporting event.

School led prayer offered no alternatives but to be forced to listen to the teacher drone on about something that many people don't observe. And keep in mind that I was born when this was still being done.

You were born in the middle of a school-led prayer? My God, I at least hope it was at the beginning of a biology class.

It led to my father telling me to leave the room when this occurred and he fought the school system about it.

We're talking about prayer at the opening of sporting events.

At least, that's what the rest of us are talking about.

 

[First Baseman]

What about those who do mind ?

They just either have to deal with it or move out of Britain. Just like the Quakers did when they moved to America.

 

[JustWondering]

God knows people from the womb, etc.

Where in the bible does it say abortion is wrong?

Why is this a valid comparison? A belief in a right to own a weapon, and being against the deliberate murder of unborn?

How does someone justify calling themselves a Christian, which means they follow Christ who taught to turn the other cheek and love thy neighbor as yourself, turn around and buy weapons that are specifically created to kill people? When Pro-lifers actually live by Christs example in all aspects of their lives instead of picking and choosing what teachings they want to follow and ignoring the rest I'll take them seriously. Otherwise they can mind their own business, if they don't want to have an abortion then whatever, but don't tell others how to live and what to do. Especially when they are clearly hypocrites who cannot follow their own religions teachings.

Waging war out of self-defence, or in the national interest, is not the same as murdering defenceless innocent unborn, and is not targeting innocents (though of course "collateral damage" does occur) but rather the immoral regime or leadership or group that is endangering our citizens. The unborn do not attack me, unless you've been watching some B-rated creepy horror movie.

There are plenty of unjustified wars. Like the Iraq war for instance. People who pushed their pro-life agenda also pushed for the Iraq war that led to thousands upon thousands of innocent peoples deaths. Then they turn around and want to tell people who don't share their beliefs how to live their lives. No, their beliefs are completely self contradictory and illogical. Until they can make a Pro-life argument that makes sense and doesn't make them a hypocrite I'm not interested in listening to it.

 

[First Baseman]

Where in the bible does it say abortion is wrong?

Where does it say that abortion is right?

 

[Koldo]

They just either have to deal with it or move out of Britain. Just like the Quakers did when they moved to America.

Or they could make their opinion heard and eventually change the state of affairs.

 

[McBell]

Where does it say that abortion is right?

So then, by your presented "logic", abortion is neither right or wrong, right?

 

[JustWondering]

Where does it say that abortion is right?

Here is a fun article that points out multiple verses in the bible that don't support Pro-Life. In fact, one verse endorses causing a miscarriage if someone's wife is suspected of having been unfaithful to her husband.

http://reverbpress.com/religion/bible-supports-abortion/

 

[First Baseman]

Or they could make their opinion heard and eventually change the state of affairs.

In the meantime they will just have to deal with it. Just like we have to deal with life evolving somehow from non-life being taught in public schools. Never mind that no current abiogenesis theory has been generally accepted...

 

[First Baseman]

So then, by your presented "logic", abortion is neither right or wrong, right?

Here is a fun article that points out multiple verses in the bible that don't support Pro-Life. In fact, one verse endorses causing a miscarriage if someone's wife is suspected of having been unfaithful to her husband.

http://reverbpress.com/religion/bible-supports-abortion/

Avoiding the question doesn't answer it.

Where does it say that abortion is right?

 

[Koldo]

In the meantime they will just have to deal with it. Just like we have to deal with life evolving somehow from non-life being taught in public schools. Never mind that no current abiogenesis theory has been generally accepted...

Life evolving from non-life ?
Never heard about that before.

 

[Father Heathen]

Avoiding the question doesn't answer it.

Where does it say that abortion is right?

I don't think they're the ones being evasive here.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And schools would still accommodate for Muslim students if there are enough of them (which would be the fault of mass immigration), regardless of having Christian prayers or not. You can't just tell kids to not practise their religious beliefs when at school.

No one is telling them they can't. What is being restricted is the school itself leading and sponsoring religion. Students can still pray, and still practice, but school is not for preaching or teaching religion. That is what your church, or temple, or coven, or whatever you have is for.
And, BTW, why would it automatically be the "fault of mass immigration" if there are enough Muslim students? Is it somehow not feasible to you that your own citizens convert?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Life evolving from non-life ?
Never heard about that before.

I've heard of it. We called it "spontaneous generation" and Louis Pasteur disproved it, meaning it isn't taught in school except as a side note to cover a bit of history and as a segue into what he discovered and developed.

 

[JustWondering]

Avoiding the question doesn't answer it.

Where does it say that abortion is right?

Since you aren't going to read the article, numbers 5:27 endorses abortion. The bible does not support the Pro-life stance, that is a fact. Claiming Christianity (especially since the bible is it's holy text) as supporting the Pro-life agenda is just ignorant.

 

[McBell]

Avoiding the question doesn't answer it.

Where does it say that abortion is right?

I never made the claim it did.

Nice try though.

 

[crossfire]

No one is telling them they can't. What is being restricted is the school itself leading and sponsoring religion. Students can still pray, and still practice, but school is not for preaching or teaching religion. That is what your church, or temple, or coven, or whatever you have is for.
And, BTW, why would it automatically be the "fault of mass immigration" if there are enough Muslim students? Is it somehow not feasible to you that your own citizens convert?

They can't if they don't have any designated free time where they can do it.

 

[JoStories]

Reading through all these posts, I'm starting to wonder when the actual learning is going to take place in these schools. What with all these moments of silence and prayers going on.

Is it not enough that people receive religious instruction at their religious institutions?

I absolutely agree Skeptic. I have often said lately that children today don't know jack. A few times lately I have gone to the grocery store and the clerks; a barely old enough teen, could not count my change. Ask a child today if they have read any of the classics and they don't know what those classics are, nor can they name European countries and they cannot find them on a map. I have to ask..what the hell are kids learning today anyway??

 

[JoStories]

When did I say all faiths should be allowed a prayer led session at school?

The point was that no faith should be allowed to have any prayer in schools. No faith. The minute a faith is allowed, you have bias. You have those who don't adhere to that faith being rightfully offended. Prayer belongs in church, not school. Period.

 

[JoStories]

Those who are prejudiced often call names and what have you to avoid their prejudices being called out. Not gonna work here, buddy.

You're prejudiced against the 1st amendment. You are definitely all for impeding the free exercise of religion. It's obvious.

The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, impeding the free exercise of religion, abridging the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble, or prohibiting thepetitioning for a governmental redress of grievances.

If you read what you posted here, you will note that a person who does not follow your faith has the right to not be forced to follow your faith. IOW, no prayer of any kind belongs in a school setting. The minute you allow Christian prayer, you MUST allow all other faiths to have their prayer as well. And therein lies the problem. School would become about prayer and not learning and trust me when I say that kids today are so far behind European schools as to be ignorant, literally. If a child had to answer a question without their phones or IPads, they would not be able to and that scares the hell out of me. Math is what school is about. Not prayer.