When it comes to Prayer 76% of Americans Don't Give a **** About the Constitution

[JoStories]

How about shared moments of learning important educational things like mathematics and science?

Exactly Skeptic and as I have said a couple of times, kids are NOT learning anymore. They cannot tell you where the national parks in this country are. They cannot read a map or divide numbers without a smart phone calculator or even understand simple grammar or spelling. This is what are kids are learning today which is jack. And that should be enough to show anyone of any faith that those faiths belong in church, not school.

 

[JoStories]

That the SCOTUS is seeking to restrict and/or prohibit practice of religion supposedly guaranteed under the 1st amendment.

No one is trying to restrict your need for faith. But that faith belongs in one of two places; the home or church. Period. Faith and prayer do not belong in school. Or don't you give a damn that kids today are not learning at all?

 

[JoStories]

Gee, dude. Roe vs. Wade, decisions taking prayer out of schools, decision to strike down a state law concerning the state's right to define marriage as it sees fit. Surely you read the papers?

What does Roe V Wade have to do with prayer in school? And you have not discussed how you are going to have all faiths represented in a school prayer setting. Shall they do ALL faiths types of prayer. You do realize that would take away from the learning that is already pitifully poor to begin with, no? As for SSM and marriage in general, that has NOTHING to do with the topic of this thread. Please try to stay on topic here.

 

[JoStories]

Christianity is an integral part of the culture and heritage, that's why. No one is being forced to follow a religion, I am simply saying it is reasonable for a public school to have prayers in keeping with the religion that is a part of the culture and heritage of the country.

As I said it's not a big deal, if there is enough opposition then it defeats the point and the schools should go full secular. In Britain, we are in such a state of post-Christianity that most non-Christians aren't frothing at the mouth but rather quite enjoy Christian prayers and hymns.

I don't think you realize how many types of faiths there are in schools in my country. We don't have a state sponsored religion here. We have children in schools from Jewish heritage, Muslim countries, Pagan, Christian, atheist, and so on. Should all of these faiths, and I did not mention even a small part, have a prayer in the beginning of school? There would be no time for learning if that were the case.

 

[JoStories]

Faith doesn't stop at the front door.

Or do they?...


Subjective. Depends on what their learning

Faith can be anywhere you want but NOT in the faces of my children. You are NOT free to force my kids to endure your faith, period, And learning should be the number one priority here. Math, grammar, spelling, etc. Prayer has no place in that. The practice of faith belongs in the home or church. There is no other way to do this in this country with too many faiths to be fully represented.

 

[JoStories]

In keeping with the culture, heritage and values of the land...

So yes.

Muslims can feel free to open a private schools if they are too offended. Fortunately most are reasonable people who have no problem with such.

It is not just Muslims. Here in the US, there are so many faiths as to have one represented would constitute bias and favor where one should not exist for children that are of an age that abstract thought does not allow them to even understand matters of faith. It might be fine where you are to have one faith and one only but here, that is not something that can be done.

 

[JoStories]

I will not hear the arguments of one who is so willingly blind to the religious side of the issues. Have a nice day.

Maybe if you could take a step back from your anger and try to address what this thread is about you might have those who find you so biased willing to listen to your POV. All I have seen is you ranting on about how you are not allowed to have your faith. No one is saying you cannot have your faith. What we are saying is that prayer does not belong in a school with so many minorities that to entertain prayer, where prayer would be allowed for ALL faiths, would take up the entirety of the school day. Do you want your kids to not learn math, science, English, etc? From your posts, it would seem so.

 

[JoStories]

The first question is stupid and will be ignored.

The states have the right to define marriage as they see fit and the SCOTUS has no right to deny states the rights to make laws according to the document they are supposed to be supporting.

Why is the first question stupid? Its highly germane as you are demanding or seem to be, that schools only have Christian prayer upheld. How is that fair? How would it be different to have Blacks being slaves when you are forcing children of a different faith to have to take part in the rigors of your own? The states have to adhere to the equal rights of all peoples which would include marriage. Your faith does not get to define what marriage is based on your Bible. Would you be fine with allowing polygamy or with men being allowed to marry children as young as 10? These are fair questions which I don't see you answering. I only see you with your back up and being angry at everyone.

 

[JoStories]

I disagree with everyone on here except Sultan of Swing. I don't see it your way at all, quite the opposite, in fact.

I suppose religion will be made to slowly disappear in this country in spite of the first amendment and the fact that our forefathers wanted total freedom of religion.

Whatever. Continue teaching our children that their lives are meaningless, death is the end, drink and be merry today because tomorrow you perish. Your steadfast doctrines have this country in the mess it is in and things are getting worse. But that's okay, as long as God is stomped out and you can do as you will.

Which God would that be? I assume you will say yours and no others. And therein lies the problem you see. You are free to teach your children whatever faith works for you but what you don't have the right to do is force your God or way of seeing God on my children. Unless you are willing to admit that you want only your faith, which would be the honest truth, you have no right to force your faith on my children and furthermore, I want my children in school to learn math and science and grammar, etc, not the rudiment of YOUR faith.

 

[JoStories]

I'm specifically talking about Christian prayers, as that is the sort that I'd be happy with in public schools. Wiccans can have a private school if they aren't happy. Luckily in the UK people aren't that bothered...

All of that is fine, for your country. Here, if a parent wants to have a Christian education, it is they who find the private school. Public schools simply have too many faiths to have this be a reasonable expectation on the part of parents. We simply have too many peoples of various faiths, including the lack thereof, to expect teachers to be versed in all of them.

 

[JoStories]

Because it's just prayers, and the vast majority of people don't mind the religion of their country's culture and traditions having some input, however minimal.

Again, that is fine, for your country. Here we have too many faiths to be able to have a teacher versed in all of them. It would require an advanced degree in theology and would detract from what school is supposed to be about. That being learning the basics.

 

[JoStories]

Never said there was.



I've never heard of anyone being shot for remaining seated and silent during the prayer at the beginning of a sporting event.



You were born in the middle of a school-led prayer? My God, I at least hope it was at the beginning of a biology class.



We're talking about prayer at the opening of sporting events.

At least, that's what the rest of us are talking about.

I am not a fan of snarky posts. And I believe we were talking about school led prayer in general. That is the way I have read the last 10 pages of posts.

 

[First Baseman]

No one is trying to restrict your need for faith. But that faith belongs in one of two places; the home or church. Period. Faith and prayer do not belong in school. Or don't you give a damn that kids today are not learning at all?

You do not have the right to tell me where my faith belongs. It belongs in my heart, that means everywhere I go. And supposedly the Constitution says so. Congress may make no laws impeding the practice of religion. None. Not one.

But our SCOTUS does so on a regular basis.

The reason why your kids aren't learning in school is because you have removed the Bible, its authority and its principles from your schools and your daily lives. Of course you will deny this but it is the truth.

 

[First Baseman]

Again, that is fine, for your country. Here we have too many faiths to be able to have a teacher versed in all of them. It would require an advanced degree in theology and would detract from what school is supposed to be about. That being learning the basics.

Opinion noted. Unfortunately for you all American citizens have opinions and yours is no better than my neighbor's.

 

[McBell]

The point was that no faith should be allowed to have any prayer in schools. No faith. The minute a faith is allowed, you have bias. You have those who don't adhere to that faith being rightfully offended. Prayer belongs in church, not school. Period.

Good luck.
Some people are just incapable of understanding

 

[McBell]

Congress may make no laws impeding the practice of religion. None. Not one.

Again you are just plain flat out wrong as evidenced by all the laws you whine so much about.

But our SCOTUS does so on a regular basis.

This is because you are flat out wrong about what the Constitution says.

The reason why your kids aren't learning in school is because you have removed the Bible, its authority and its principles from your schools and your daily lives.

At least you are consistent.
To bad it is at being wrong.

Of course you will deny this but it is the truth.

like hell it is.
But then, you have not been the least bit honest thus far in this thread.
So it comes as no surprise that you remain dishonest.

 

[McBell]

Opinion noted. Unfortunately for you all American citizens have opinions and yours is no better than my neighbor's.

No idea if this true or not.
Your neighbor has not expressed their opinion.

Your opinion on the other hand....

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

You do not have the right to tell me where my faith belongs.

Jo may not, but constitutional & legal experts do as that is their job.

And supposedly the Constitution says so. Congress may make no laws impeding the practice of religion. None. Not one.

In relation to the private sphere, yes. You're also reading that part of the Constitution selectively; it also says Congress may make no laws respecting an establishment of religion. By arguing that the Bible alone be allowed into public schools you are advocating exactly this. Preventing proselytising Christians from being able to indoctrinate children in public schools doesn't stop them practising their religion; it doesn't stop them doing it in church or at home or in any other private settings.

But our SCOTUS does so on a regular basis.

Name one law the SCOTUS has authored.

The reason why your kids aren't learning in school is because you have removed the Bible, its authority and its principles from your schools and your daily lives. Of course you will deny this but it is the truth.

You're joking, right? The Bible won't teach children history, physics, mathematics, French, Chinese or a host of other languages, accounting etc. The Bible had no authority in public schools to begin with so removing it is impossible.

 

[First Baseman]

Regardless of your laws you can't tell me what to keep in my heart. I'll break your laws and express faith wheresoever I see fit. Christ didn't die on the cross in a corner and the Gospel is open to all who will hear it.

So make your laws. Kill us, we will not bequiet about the Gospel of Jesus Christ! Praise be to His name forever and ever!

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Regardless of your laws you can't tell me what to keep in my heart. I'll break your laws and express faith wheresoever I see fit. Christ didn't die on the cross in a corner and the Gospel is open to all who will hear it.

So make your laws. Kill us, we will not bequiet about the Gospel of Jesus Christ! Praise be to His name forever and ever!

It's a good thing Jesus makes a point of reading these forums so he can see you posting that. What was it Jesus said about those who pray publicly so people will notice?

Keep setting up your self-righteous strawmen and see if anyone cares when you knock them over. It's attitudes like the one on display here that really turn people off Christianity. The demeanour shown here belittles the suffering of Christians and religious minorities who go through actual persecution around the globe.