When it comes to Prayer 76% of Americans Don't Give a **** About the Constitution

[First Baseman]

It's a good thing Jesus makes a point of reading these forums so he can see you posting that. What was it Jesus said about those who pray publicly so people will notice?

Keep setting up your self-righteous strawmen and see if anyone cares when you knock them over. It's attitudes like the one on display here that really turn people off Christianity. The demeanour shown here belittles the suffering of Christians and religious minorities who go through actual persecution around the globe.

You can get off your soapbox now. I'm not praying in public. I'm just telling you how it is. You people have been trying to shut us Christians up since the beginning. Christ was crucified so that the Romans and the Sanhedrin thought they could shut Him up and get rid of Him for good.

Look how that turned out. He rose from the dead and lives on in each of His followers. He live will live on forever and so will we.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

You can get off your soapbox now. I'm not praying in public.

You're making loud declarations of zealous faith in public so people will see how pious you are. Same thing.

I'm just telling you how it is.

No you're not. You're creating a false narrative where not permitting Christians to have religious privilege gets spun into 'they're trying to silence and kill us'. We're not. We're saying there's an appropriate time & place for your preaching and in the public sphere during educational time is not it. If you're interested in witnessing what persecution of Christians really looks like then go to China, North Korea or Egypt. Until you put your money where your mouth is we refuse to take your claims to martyrdom seriously.

You people have been trying to shut us Christians up since the beginning. Christ was crucified so that the Romans and the Sanhedrin thought they could shut Him up and get rid of Him for good.

Look how that turned out. He rose from the dead and lives on in each of His followers. He live will live on forever and so will we.

That reads curiously like a complaint which is rather confusing since the Romans were willing to let Jesus go as he had not broken Roman law and if Jesus hadn't been killed he wouldn't have been resurrected to become your saviour.

 

[metis]

Well let's see--the actual outcome of a moment of silence is having pure freedom of thought without having to multitask or worry about anyone (except maybe a baby) interrupting you or distracting you from your allotted time of free thought.

Can't a student do that on their own time?

 

[Demonslayer]

You're creating a false narrative where not permitting Christians to have religious privilege gets spun into 'they're trying to silence and kill us'. We're not. We're saying there's an appropriate time & place for your preaching and in the public sphere during educational time is not it

This. Poor, poor Christians.

 

[Demonslayer]

Can't a student do that on their own time?

No! Everyone MUST SIT QUIETLY AND RESPECTFULLY while the Christians bully everyone else into wasting school time on their super special chantings.

Screw doing in on their own time YOU must abide!

 

[McBell]

No! Everyone MUST SIT QUIETLY AND RESPECTFULLY while the Christians bully everyone else into wasting school time on their super special chantings.

Screw doing in on their own time YOU must abide!

You forgot:

RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!​

 

[SkepticThinker]

I'm specifically talking about Christian prayers, as that is the sort that I'd be happy with in public schools. Wiccans can have a private school if they aren't happy. Luckily in the UK people aren't that bothered...

People tend to prefer the religion that they themselves follow. So the problem is, we've got a PUBLIC school filled with children that come from all different kinds of religious backgrounds, probably with many of them preferring the particular religion that they follow. So why choose Christianity over all others when you've got a mix of kids from all of these different backgrounds?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Lol, they're all for religion in schools until someone starts pushing a different religion or world view on their kids and then they couldn't agree more about keeping religion out of schools.

Thank you for posting this. I've been trying to find it for a while now!

 

[SkepticThinker]

It would be a PUBLIC school, not a Muslim school. Some Muslim students going to the same school as your Christian kids would demand time during the day for classes to stop for them to pray towards Mecca while the Christian kids and teachers have to respectively wait until they finish. Fair is fair. Next thing you know nothing is being taught at public schools because the schools are spending all their time trying to facilitate everyone's non-education related, personal business. Schools are for educating our children, Churches are for praying. I don't understand why this concept is too difficult for theists to grasp. Maybe theists do understand, maybe they just want to cram their religion down other people's throats.

This This This ^^^

 

[Demonslayer]

So why choose Christianity over all others when you've got a mix of kids from all of these different backgrounds?

Because this is America gawddammit and America is based on Christian values and to hell with everyone else!

 

[SkepticThinker]

Exactly Skeptic and as I have said a couple of times, kids are NOT learning anymore. They cannot tell you where the national parks in this country are. They cannot read a map or divide numbers without a smart phone calculator or even understand simple grammar or spelling. This is what are kids are learning today which is jack. And that should be enough to show anyone of any faith that those faiths belong in church, not school.

It does seem as though you are right. I don't think it's too much to ask to keep school time for educational purposes instead of all these group led prayers and moments of silence, etc. There are plenty of other more appropriate places for such things. Isn't that what churches, mosques, etc. are for?

Besides, it's already been pointed that kids can pray to themselves absolutely any time they want to at any point during the day. I used to pray before I took tests. I just didn't feel like I had to lead the entire class in that prayer along with me.

 

[jeager106]

America was founded on Christian values but with a constitution which allowed for freedom of religion. The Constitution the Declaration of Independence our money all makes reference to a Christian god. So like it or not agree or not the United States is a Christian based country and will remain so for a very long time.

Get over it.
It is what it is.
Deny all you like but the U.S. IS a Christian based country.

Don't like it?
Then change the Constitution & the Declaration of Independence.
Don't know what they ^^^^ say? Shame on you now read them and enlighten yourself.
NO ONE IF FORCING ANYONE TO BE A CHRISTIAN!

"freedom of religion" you see.

Doubt this nation was founded on "god" principles?
Read a dollar bill then!
Better yet read the Declaration of Independence and our Constitution.
Remember those documents?
Don't like what a buck says? Then lobby for a change in our currency.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You do not have the right to tell me where my faith belongs. It belongs in my heart, that means everywhere I go. And supposedly the Constitution says so. Congress may make no laws impeding the practice of religion. None. Not one.

But our SCOTUS does so on a regular basis.

So keep it in your heart at all times. Nobody is saying you can't or shouldn't. The question is, why do you expect everyone else around you should have to share it with you?

The reason why your kids aren't learning in school is because you have removed the Bible, its authority and its principles from your schools and your daily lives. Of course you will deny this but it is the truth.

What does the Bible have to do with mathematics, grammar, spelling, science, and other subjects taught in public schools and children's ability to learn then?

Why do you think your ancient holy book has to pervade every part of life, especially when many people don't follow it, and many others follow their own holy books? How would you feel if holy books you don't follow were foisted upon you and your children against your will?

Honestly, I really can't understand what you're not getting about this. (Maybe that has to do with the fact that you refuse to explain yourself).

 

[SkepticThinker]

Regardless of your laws you can't tell me what to keep in my heart. I'll break your laws and express faith wheresoever I see fit. Christ didn't die on the cross in a corner and the Gospel is open to all who will hear it.

So make your laws. Kill us, we will not bequiet about the Gospel of Jesus Christ! Praise be to His name forever and ever!

Huh? Who's talking about killing people??

 

[SkepticThinker]

Because this is America gawddammit and America is based on Christian values and to hell with everyone else!

I'm so sorry, I forgot!

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

It still goes back to the question of why should Christian prayer be promoted but not Satanic, Wiccan, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, or others? If Christians get their time to pray, are we going to let a Buddhist student go off and meditate while the Wiccan student goes off to put on their religious garb and lights incense sticks?

It's just a little prayer at the start of the day. Christianity is the cultural religion, if a school wishes to respect that fine by me. Buddhism and Hinduism aren't.

 

[viole]

(As an FYI, for the last 54 years public school sponsored prayer has been against the law in America)

"More than three-quarters (76%) of Americans agree that public high schools should be allowed to sponsor prayer before football games. There are few differences by race, region, gender, or age.

More than 9-in-10 (93%) white evangelical Protestants, approximately 8-in-10 white mainline Protestants (82%), minority Christians (81%), and Catholics (79%), and even a majority (56%) of religiously unaffiliated Americans agree that public high schools should be able to sponsor prayer before football games.

Nearly 9-in-10 (89%) Republicans agree that public high schools should be allowed to sponsor prayer before football games, compared to more than three-quarters (77%) of independents and nearly 7-in-10 (68%) Democrats."
source

​

Or is it that these 76% are simply out-and-out ignorant Christians?

Supreme Court Rules School Sponsored Prayer Unconstitutional

Santa Fe Independent School District v. Jane Doe

On June 19, 2000, in the case of Santa Fe Independent School District v. Jane Doe (99-62), the Supreme Court ruled 6-3 that a Texas public school district's practice of opening high school football games with a prayer is unconstitutional. The Supreme Court first ruled against school-sponsored prayer in 1962 in Engel v. Vitale. Since then, the Court has consistently ruled against school-sponsored worship, while permitting voluntary student-initiated religious activities. The Santa Fe case began in 1995 when the parents of two students sued their Texas school district in federal court following adoption of a policy allowing students to elect a classmate to deliver a prayer over the stadium's public address system prior to football games.
source



​

.

Is football so dangerous?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Shadow Wolf]

They can't if they don't have any designated free time where they can do it.

They can't before class starts? As the teacher hands out assignments? They don't need a special "prayer time" to pray (not unless your religion specifies times to go pray).

Congress may make no laws impeding the practice of religion. None. Not one.

Again, you left out the "make no laws respecting the establishment of religion" part of the First. Your religious practices aren't being impeded on. Not having school lead and sponsored prayer and religion is not telling any individual they cannot practice their religion, it is only saying that the public school entity itself cannot lead or sponsor religion. Same sex marriage being legalized is not telling anyone they can't practice their religion, it's saying Conservative Christians do not get to run the show and cannot dictate the lives of those who believe otherwise, but they can still believe homosexuals are a group of abominable hell-bound sinners if they want.

Christ didn't die on the cross in a corner and the Gospel is open to all who will hear it.

But he did say that when you pray, to go do it in a closet.

So make your laws. Kill us, we will not bequiet about the Gospel of Jesus Christ! Praise be to His name forever and ever!

That is rather extreme to assume someone is going to kill you over your religion when no one is even out to arrest or fine you

America was founded on Christian values

I see no keeping the Sabbath holy, I see no mandates of charity, I see nothing about honoring your parents or not committing adultery. There are zero references to Jesus in the Constitution and Declaration, only vague references to a "creator," which is a very nondescript term. We had originally 10 amendments, but they do not reflect the 10 Commandments.

The Constitution the Declaration of Independence our money all makes reference to a Christian god.

Our Constitution does not, our Declaration does not, and the reference on money did not come about until several decades after the America's sovereignty was established, and the "under god" part of the Pledge was not added until the mid 20th century.

Better yet read the Declaration of Independence and our Constitution.

Apparently you need to read them if you think they make references to the Christian religion and god.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Christianity is the cultural religion

That isn't a good enough reason to give it special treatment.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

If it is that important they need to attend a private school. Or leave school and go to prayer at a mosque/church and make up their school work on their own time later instead of disrupting everyone else's education. A public school is for education not prayer.

Yeah you tell them Muslims!