When was Yeshua born? Summer/Winter

[outhouse]

So, we can only surmise the month, right? We don't know the actual day(?)

No you cannot

 

[Pegg]

So, we can only surmise the month, right? We don't know the actual day(?)

actually yes we do know the day...it was the 14th day of the month of Nisan in harmony with when the passover was celebrated

Exodus 12:17 “‘And YOU must keep the festival of unfermented cakes, because on this very day I must bring YOUR armies out from the land of Egypt. And YOU must keep this day throughout YOUR generations as a statute to time indefinite. 18 In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month, in the evening YOU are to eat unfermented cakes down till the twenty-first day of the month in the evening

Passover is always celebrated on Nisan 14 year after year. Its always on the 14th day of the first jewish calander month of Nisan which corresponds to our March/April.

So we do know the exact date of Jesus death... and the likely hood is that he began his ministry shortly after turning 30 yrs of age, it means that approx 33.5 years earlier he was born... the month would be sept/oct and the year would have been 2bce.

 

[Desert Snake]

actually yes we do know the day...it was the 14th day of the month of Nisan in harmony with when the passover was celebrated

Exodus 12:17 “‘And YOU must keep the festival of unfermented cakes, because on this very day I must bring YOUR armies out from the land of Egypt. And YOU must keep this day throughout YOUR generations as a statute to time indefinite. 18 In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month, in the evening YOU are to eat unfermented cakes down till the twenty-first day of the month in the evening

Passover is always celebrated on Nisan 14 year after year. Its always on the 14th day of the first jewish calander month of Nisan which corresponds to our March/April.

So we do know the exact date of Jesus death... and the likely hood is that he began his ministry shortly after turning 30 yrs of age, it means that approx 33.5 years earlier he was born... the month would be sept/oct and the year would have been 2bce.

O.k. thanks for clearing that up. That actually makes sense.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Excuse me? I don't follow your reasoning.

Why make reference to certain customs being wrong?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Winter is liklier because there are 3 months (at least) a year that are winter. Most other seasons don't last too long, but I could be overexaggerating because winter begins at the end of the year but lasts until the beginning of the year... kinda weird makes me think of time traveling lol.

 

[Desert Snake]

Why make reference to certain customs being wrong?

I'm going to stop dignifying your insulting assumptions with responses. I don't know what you're point is, etc., don't care.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

I'm going to stop dignifying your insulting assumptions with responses. I don't know what you're point is, etc., don't care.

Fair enough. When you want to own up to your own statements, feel free to contact me.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Winter is liklier because there are 3 months (at least) a year that are winter. Most other seasons don't last too long, but I could be overexaggerating because winter begins at the end of the year but lasts until the beginning of the year... kinda weird makes me think of time traveling lol.

Not sure why you think three months of winter makes Christs birth more likely to be in the winter.

 

[Desert Snake]

Fair enough. When you want to own up to your own statements, feel free to contact me.

sure.

 

[ForeverFaithful]

Xmas has nothing to do yeshua at all. it is the winter solstice

That's nice, however
Christmas (Christ Mass) came to replace the Winter solstice because human beings natural enjoy celebration during hard times like winter, it also allowed for people to fatten up, not new to even the Fundies

Easter is based on Passover, any other traditions that seept in where tolerated by the church because they were not contrary in and of themself to Christianity

Halloween is not even Christian, All Hallow's Eve was intentionally put there for that purpose, no excuses needed.

Valentine's Day was in memory of a Saint, but has lost that meaning entirely, yet again no one really claims this to be a "christian" holiday anyways

At no time have I ever been to a Christian May Day service.

As for the days of the week (and the months for that matter) We adopted the Roman's calendar, so obviously we have Roman names, it's not wrong to have such things

 

[Poisonshady313]

actually yes we do know the day...it was the 14th day of the month of Nisan in harmony with when the passover was celebrated

Exodus 12:17 “‘And YOU must keep the festival of unfermented cakes, because on this very day I must bring YOUR armies out from the land of Egypt. And YOU must keep this day throughout YOUR generations as a statute to time indefinite. 18 In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month, in the evening YOU are to eat unfermented cakes down till the twenty-first day of the month in the evening

Passover is always celebrated on Nisan 14 year after year. Its always on the 14th day of the first jewish calander month of Nisan which corresponds to our March/April.

So we do know the exact date of Jesus death... and the likely hood is that he began his ministry shortly after turning 30 yrs of age, it means that approx 33.5 years earlier he was born... the month would be sept/oct and the year would have been 2bce.

Actually, Passover is always celebrated on Nisan 15. In anticipation of Passover, we begin eating Matzah a day earlier (as directed by Exodus 12:18).

Passover is a seven day festival. If you started counting at 14, you'd end at 20, not 21 as directed by Exodus 12:18.

 

[Poisonshady313]

John 19:31 tells us that the day after the passover a 'great sabbath' which means the passover did not fall on the usual sabbath which was normally the saturday (7th day of the week)...it fell on the friday, the 6th day of the week which made the next day a 'Great Sabbath'

There's a bunch of things wrong with this.

Shabbat HaGadol... or "Great Sabbath" is the weekly sabbath that precedes Passover.

You're not taking into account that on the Hebrew calendar, the calendar day begins at sundown... which means when you wake up on what we recognize as Friday morning, it's the 6th day... but at sundown - when you still call it Friday- begins the 7th day of the week. which lasts until Saturday at sundown.

If you're going to just interchange the Gregorian names of the days of the week with the numbered day of the week, all you're going to do is confuse yourself and come off as incoherent to Jewish people who actually live by the Hebrew calendar.

So if you mean to say that Passover began on Friday night, which is when the Sabbath always begins, you'd be accurate (depending on the year you're talking about.)

If you mean to say that Passover began on Thursday night (The 6th day of the week, which lasts until Friday night when the 7th day begins)... you'd be 100% wrong.

There's a rule regarding when Passover can occur during the week, known as Lo Bdu Pesach... the hebrew letters Bet, Dalet, and Vav representing the numbers 2, 4, and 6.... Pesach (Passover) cannot begin on those days of the week.

Which means Passover can never begin on Sunday night, Tuesday night, or Thursday night.

 

[Pegg]

Actually, Passover is always celebrated on Nisan 15. In anticipation of Passover, we begin eating Matzah a day earlier (as directed by Exodus 12:18).

Passover is a seven day festival. If you started counting at 14, you'd end at 20, not 21 as directed by Exodus 12:18.

Yes, and it was on that day before the passover celebration began that jesus was killed... on the 14th.
exodus states: In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month, in the evening YOU are to eat unfermented cakes down till the twenty-first day of the month in the evening
It was this celebration that the Apostles prepared for and enjoyed with Jesus Mark 14:12 Now on the first day of unfermented cakes, when they customarily sacrificed the passover [victim], his disciples said to him: “Where do you want us to go and prepare for you to eat the passover?

The gospel accounts also state that Jesus was taken down from the torture stake and wrapped in bandages before the passover began. The time would have been 3pm on Friday afternoon....the passover began at sundown on the same day according to our calendar, but the jews began their new day in the evening (sundown to sunup) so that evening became Nisan 15.

 

[Poisonshady313]

Christmas isn't a cover celebration any more than Channukah being a 'Jewish version' of Christmas.

Actually, Christmas might very well be a cover celebration. For basically all the reasons already mentioned in this thread. Pre-existing pagan holidays on the 25th of December, Jesus birth most likely not even having been in the same season, etc...

There's no possibility that Chanukah is a version of anything, because whether you believe in the miracle of lights or not, the Maccabean revolt against the Seleucid Empire happened before Jesus was supposedly born.

Chanukah is its own holiday with its own significance, and practices original to the Rabbinic observation of the holiday. And since the 25th of Kislev (the day of the re-dedication of the Temple) exists on a calendar that is different from what the rest of the world uses, the date can hardly be said to have been stolen from anyone.


Even if you wanted to make the case that really and truly, Christmas isn't a cover celebration... leave Chanukah out of it. There is no comparison.

 

[Poisonshady313]

Yes, and it was on that day before the passover celebration began that jesus was killed... on the 14th.
exodus states: In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month, in the evening YOU are to eat unfermented cakes down till the twenty-first day of the month in the evening
It was this celebration that the Apostles prepared for and enjoyed with Jesus Mark 14:12 Now on the first day of unfermented cakes, when they customarily sacrificed the passover [victim], his disciples said to him: “Where do you want us to go and prepare for you to eat the passover?

You're not being very consistent. If he was killed the day before the passover celebration, he couldn't very well have enjoyed that very same celebration with his apostles the day before he was killed.

Unless you can find a way to show that despite the odd wording, three of the four gospels don't really suggest that Jesus sat down with his apostles to a passover seder, and that the last supper was just an ordinary supper.

 

[Poisonshady313]

I want to add this to clarify... on the 14th, eating the matzah isn't much of a celebration. It's just getting used to having a leaven-free house in preparation for the 15th which is when the celebration is.

 

[Desert Snake]

I want to add this to clarify... on the 14th, eating the matzah isn't much of a celebration. It's just getting used to having a leaven-free house in preparation for the 15th which is when the celebration is.

You don't have special matzah or something?

 

[Poisonshady313]

You don't have special matzah or something?

I don't understand your question. What do you mean by "special matzah"?

 

[Desert Snake]

I don't understand your question. What do you mean by "special matzah"?

You said eating the matzah, so I asked if you had special matzah as in flavored or different from the normal matzah.

 

[Pegg]

You're not being very consistent. If he was killed the day before the passover celebration, he couldn't very well have enjoyed that very same celebration with his apostles the day before he was killed.

Unless you can find a way to show that despite the odd wording, three of the four gospels don't really suggest that Jesus sat down with his apostles to a passover seder, and that the last supper was just an ordinary supper.

unfermented cakes were eaten the night before passover celebration began as you stated already

and as exodus states, the 14th was the first night of the celebration of the unfermented cakes, then at the following sundown, passover

I think issue is that the gospel accounts speak of the 'unfermented cakes and the passover' as one event rather then as two separate celebrations. And then there is also the difference as you pointed out of the jewish calender