Where are the Dead?

[Eli G]

I'm sure you can find someone in any part of a spectrum so I'm sure that there would be some who do. But that isn't the only example. Rev. 6:9-11 speaks of another group that are physically dead but yet alive spiritually.

The "souls" under the altar was BLOOD, not the actual persons. There were not literal "souls" under the altar of the sacrifices in the temple.

The voice came out of the persons who were claiming about their blood ...

Rev. 6:9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those slaughtered because of the word of God and because of the witness they had given. 10 They shouted with a loud voice, saying: “Until when, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, are you refraining from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 And a white robe was given to each of them, and they were told to rest a little while longer, until the number was filled of their fellow slaves and their brothers who were about to be killed as they had been.

SOULS == BLOOD == lifeblood poured out at the altar

Lev. 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I myself have given it on the altar for you to make atonement for yourselves, because it is the blood that makes atonement by means of the life in it. 12 That is why I have said to the Israelites: “None of you should eat blood, and no foreigner who is residing in your midst should eat blood.”

 

[Zwing]

Are the dead alive somewhere?

Why, yes! Four of the members are still alive and all living in California. Only Jerry Garcia and “Pigpen” McKiernan have passed away!

 

[Trailblazer]

That's your belief. That's not what the scriptures refer to.

It is my belief that is what the scriptures refer to.

"That not what the scriptures refer to" is only your belief so I would be careful not to assert it as a fact.

 

[Eli G]

And yet it mentions that they are living.

Rev. 9 says they are living.

Transfiguration says they are living

This text explains:

Rom. 4:16 (...) Abraham, who is the father of us all. 17 (This is just as it is written: “I have appointed you a father of many nations.”) This was in the sight of God, in whom he had faith, who makes the dead alive and calls the things that are not as though they are.

Abraham's Bosom (paradise) says they are living


Jesus said to the thief, "Today you will be with me in Paradise" (can't do that if you are dead)

But there is a resurrection where we will receive a new body

What do you think is "Abraham's Bosom"?
Does that exist today? Who are there? Until when?

Use biblical quotes, please. Thanks.

 

[Kenny]

Okay. Fine.
Tell me what is the condition of the dead... using scripture.

Trying to keep it simple...

19 “There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. 20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.

this was before the resurrection of Jesus

 

[Trailblazer]

Why, yes! Four of the members are still alive and all living in California. Only Jerry Garcia and “Pigpen” McKiernan have passed away!

That's a WINNER.

 

[nPeace]

Trying to keep it simple...

19 “There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. 20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.

this was before the resurrection of Jesus

Parables are representations of something.
So that's isn't telling us the condition of the dead.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Why, yes! Four of the members are still alive and all living in California. Only Jerry Garcia and “Pigpen” McKiernan have passed away!

Lol. Good point. I wish I could give you a winner frubal too.

 

[nPeace]

Why, yes! Four of the members are still alive and all living in California. Only Jerry Garcia and “Pigpen” McKiernan have passed away!

That's 'The Dead'. Not 'the dead'. Big difference.

 

[YoursTrue]

@Kenny Kenny, I really appreciate your answers and attitude. I would like to bring out for your perusal, that Bibles often put commas or punctuation, etc., where the editors or translators think they should go. The Emphasized Bible says aptly, "And he said unto him—Verily I say unto thee this day: With me shalt thou be in Paradise." Luke 23:43. Many Bibles, by misplacing the emphasis, imply that Jesus meant the thief who showed faith in him would be with him in Paradise that day. But -- let's remember Jesus did not rise from the dead for three days anyway.

 

[Zwing]

Big difference.

Haha, not if you’re Jerry…he’s both!

 

[Trailblazer]

Jesus said to the thief, "Today you will be with me in Paradise" (can't do that if you are dead)

But there is a resurrection where we will receive a new body

The physical body cannot exist in the Kingdom of God in heaven. That is why the new body needs to be transformed into a spiritual body.

Why make this more complicated than it has to be?

Our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God which is in Heaven.
Dead bodies cannot inherit what will last forever, Heaven.
After our physical bodies die they will be raised (resurrected) as spiritual bodies that will be suited to go to Heaven and live forever.

1 Corinthians 15 New Living Translation

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.

44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!

 

[nPeace]

Haha, not if you’re Jerry…he’s both!

We are here discussing that right now. Jerry should probably be a specimen for science.

 

[Zwing]

Lol. Good point. I wish I could give you a winner frubal too.

My reward is to be reminded that I haven’t heard them in quite some time. I’m going to find “To Lay Me Down”, probably my favorite Dead tune, on you tube right now, and give it a listen. In fact, I’ll give the whole “Reckoning” album a twirl…couple of gems on there.

 

[nPeace]

After our physical bodies die they will be raised (resurrected) as spiritual bodies that will be suited to go to Heaven and live forever.

I thought you said dead bodies aren't raised to life.
How then can you say ... "After our physical bodies die they will be raised..."

 

[Trailblazer]

I thought you said dead bodies aren't raised to life.
How then can you say ... "After our physical bodies die they will be raised..."

You left out the last part of what I said.

After our physical bodies die they will be raised (resurrected) as spiritual bodies that will be suited to go to Heaven and live forever.

44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

In other words, our physical bodies will be transformed into spiritual bodies.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!

The physical body cannot exist in the Kingdom of God in heaven. That is why the new body needs to be transformed into a spiritual body.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is not that difficult.

Physical bodies live on the physical Earth, where everything is physical.
Spiritual bodies live in Heaven, a spiritual world, where everything is spiritual.
There is nothing physical in Heaven that a physical body need to live (food, water, air, etc.) so a physical body cannot live there.

 

[nPeace]

You left out the last part of what I said.

After our physical bodies die they will be raised (resurrected) as spiritual bodies that will be suited to go to Heaven and live forever.

44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

In other words, our physical bodies will be transformed into spiritual bodies.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!

The physical body cannot exist in the Kingdom of God in heaven. That is why the new body needs to be transformed into a spiritual body.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is not that difficult.

Physical bodies live on the physical Earth, where everything is physical.
Spiritual bodies live in Heaven, a spiritual world, where everything is spiritual.
There is nothing physical in Heaven that a physical body need to live (food, water, air, etc.) so a physical body cannot live there.

Is the physical body raised... Yes or No?

 

[Kenny]

OK, but the fact is that the Bible says when we die, we die, and the dead WILL BE resurrected in time. Yes, there are other allusions to being dead or alive. The transfiguration, however, was a vision, confirming the glory that God bestowed upon Jesus. How wonderful! Luke 9 has an apt description of what happened.

I understand that the body is dead... it returns to dust. But, like I said, there are many other scriptures that talk about life after death and before the resurrection of the body. It looks to be that Luke 9 was very specific and falls in line with what Jesus said to the thief, "today you will be with me in Paradise". I don't that Jesus was speaking an illusionary statement.

 

[Trailblazer]

Is the physical body raised... Yes or No?

No.

 

[Kenny]

The "souls" under the altar was BLOOD, not the actual persons. There were not literal "souls" under the altar of the sacrifices in the temple.

The voice came out of the persons who were claiming about their blood ...

Rev. 6:9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those slaughtered because of the word of God and because of the witness they had given. 10 They shouted with a loud voice, saying: “Until when, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, are you refraining from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 And a white robe was given to each of them, and they were told to rest a little while longer, until the number was filled of their fellow slaves and their brothers who were about to be killed as they had been.

SOULS == BLOOD == lifeblood poured out at the altar

Lev. 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I myself have given it on the altar for you to make atonement for yourselves, because it is the blood that makes atonement by means of the life in it. 12 That is why I have said to the Israelites: “None of you should eat blood, and no foreigner who is residing in your midst should eat blood.”

I think that would be a stretch for me. you don't give a white robe to blood.