nPeace
Veteran Member
Thank you.
So this is false. After our physical bodies die they will be raised (resurrected) as spiritual bodies.
Correct it for me please. What's raised?
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Thank you.
I guess you know about agreement of nouns and adjectives in Greek.I think that would be a stretch for me. you don't give a white robe to blood.
That is incorrect verbiage. I only used the words raised and resurrected since that is what Christians relate to and that is what is in the Bible.Thank you.
So this is false. After our physical bodies die they will be raised (resurrected) as spiritual bodies.
Correct it for me please. What's raised?
Nice exegesis! You know your Koine.I guess you know about agreement of nouns and adjectives in Greek.
SOULS in Greek is Plural Femenine.
When it says: "a white robe was given to each of them" that EACH OF THEM is Plural Masculine.
It is obvious that the clothes were not given to those "souls" (Plural Feminine) but to the persons who those "souls" (bloodlifes) belonged to: "those slaughtered" (Plural Masculine).
Okay, so you used incorrect verbiage, because Christians understand it, and it's in the Bible. Is that correct?That is incorrect verbiage. I only used the words raised and resurrected since that is what Christians relate to and that is what is in the Bible.
After our physical bodies die they will go back to dust and we will take on a new form, a spiritual body.
In other words we will be transformed from a physical body into a spiritual body.
51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!
The Bible is fully congruent with the Baha'i Writings on this matter. We will get a new form, a spiritual body (1 Corinthians 15:44)
“The world beyond is as different from this world as this world is different from that of the child while still in the womb of its mother. When the soul attaineth the Presence of God, it will assume the form that best befitteth its immortality and is worthy of its celestial habitation.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 157
“The answer to the third question is this, that in the other world the human reality doth not assume a physical form, rather doth it take on a heavenly form, made up of elements of that heavenly realm.”
Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 194
We still need a direct answer to the question 'What is the condition of the dead Ken'.I understand that the body is dead... it returns to dust. But, like I said, there are many other scriptures that talk about life after death and before the resurrection of the body. It looks to be that Luke 9 was very specific and falls in line with what Jesus said to the thief, "today you will be with me in Paradise". I don't that Jesus was speaking an illusionary statement.
That's one way to change what it says... the problem with that position is that no parables use proper names. There is no indication that it was a parable and doesn't conform to all other parables.Parables are representations of something.
So that's isn't telling us the condition of the dead.
That is true. But Jesus went to the that place to preach to them before the resurrection:@Kenny Kenny, I really appreciate your answers and attitude. I would like to bring out for your perusal, that Bibles often put commas or punctuation, etc., where the editors or translators think they should go. The Emphasized Bible says aptly, "And he said unto him—Verily I say unto thee this day: With me shalt thou be in Paradise." Luke 23:43. Many Bibles, by misplacing the emphasis, imply that Jesus meant the thief who showed faith in him would be with him in Paradise that day. But -- let's remember Jesus did not rise from the dead for three days anyway.
They are spiritually alive and in the presence of God. Their bodies are dead. Just as spiritual angels still have spiritual bodies - even so those whose bodies are dead but their spirits are alive.We still need a direct answer to the question 'What is the condition of the dead Ken'.
Since you agree the scriptures harmonize, then, there should be no contradictions.
I'll be back later. Got to run.
ok you dont know it yet ,your thinking of the use of Matthew 25:46 is premature . it will happen well after the event of Armageddon.
Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Where do you think they go for eternal life, down to Walmart?
They are spiritually alive and in the presence of God. Their bodies are dead. Just as spiritual angels still have spiritual bodies - even so those whose bodies are dead but their spirits are alive.
No need to wait. It is happening right now. The sheep are being separated from the goats.ok you dont know it yet ,your thinking of the use of Matthew 25:46 is premature . it will happen well after the event of Armageddon
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It is in the Bible but the verbiage is misleading, but no matter, because lots of what is in the Bible is misleading, unless you have the key to unlock the door to its correct meaning, as I do through the Revelation of Baha'u'llah.Okay, so you used incorrect verbiage, because Christians understand it, and it's in the Bible. Is that correct?
Yes, that is what I believe.So, if I understand you correctly, you believe that the person - the soul - you, is the one that gets a new body. Is that correct?
That's actually what I believe, and it's what's in the Bible.
1 Corinthians 15:35-38 New International VersionWhat you don't agree with - which is what I believe, and what's in the Bible, is that the person - the soul - you... is raised up and given a new body, after they die. (1 Corinthians 15:35-38) Instead, you believe that the person - the soul - you... do not die, but is given a new body. Is that correct?
The Bible does not say "raised up - resurrected." The Bible says “How are the dead raised?" (1 Corinthians 15:35)That would mean
Is that correct?
- the person - the soul - you... is not raised up - resurrected. Hence you don't believe in the resurrection.
- the person - the soul - you... is not transformed, because to be transformed would mean the physical body changes into a spiritual body, but you don't believe that.
Baha'is are not in agreement with the practices of spiritism. I am just one Baha'i and I am not representative of the Baha'i Faith.
@Sgt. Pepper
I told you that the GriefShare meeting at the church today was on the topic of Heaven. I went through this session about three months ago but this time I decided to take a few notes that I could share. I only wrote down the main points, some things we have discussed before. This is kind of a hodgepodge, since they talked faster than I could write and I ran out of room to write!
The hosts on the video about heaven said that they wanted to clear up a few common misconceptions about heaven.
They said:
- We can only believe what is in the Bible. Everything else is wrong. (I disagree)
- There are no details about heaven since our finite minds cannot comprehend heaven. (I agree)
- Christians will meet Jesus and God and legions of angels in heaven. (I think it is 'possible' they will meet Jesus and angels but I don't believe they will meet God)
- Depictions of streets of gold, etc. (in Revelations) are only glimpses, a reflection of a more glorious reality, and they are not to be interpreted literally.
(I agree)
- "We'll see Jesus! " was the main thrust of the video (Well, maybe)
- We will also see all our loved ones and converse with them, have a reunion, unless they were not Christians, in which case they won't be there.
(I believe we might see our loved ones if they are on the same level of spiritual development as we are, but I don't believe heaven is like one big room where everyone is thrown together. I believe there are 'levels' of heaven, so we might not see a loved one if that person is not on our level.)
- There will be no more sorrow and no more death. (I agree)
- We are warned never to communicate with the dead (Deut 18:10-12) (I disagree. I do not believe that spiritualism is detestable to God.)
- Trying to communicate with the dead is a way to try to keep the relationship going, when instead we should be communicating to God in prayer. (I disagree, because a person might want to communicate with a departed loved one simply for closure.)
- Resurrection is this body being restored, transformation of present body. (I disagree, and this is not in the Bible.)
- The souls will return to the resurrected body when Jesus returns on Judgment Day. (I disagree, and this is not in the Bible.)
- Do all religions lead to heaven? They can all be wrong but they cannot all be right. (I disagree. I believe all the true religions of God are right in their essence even if the followers got some of the details wrong, and that all true believers go to heaven.)
- There is only one way to get to heaven, through a relationship with Jesus (John 14:6 is cited) (I disagree, as I believe there are many ways to heaven.)
I have been attending that GriefShare group since February, and I have not divulged the fact that I am a Baha'i and I don't plan to. Today was painful when one of the group leaders was talking about what he 'believes' will happen when Christians die, the rapture and meeting Jesus in the air. He was obviously confused and unsure and he really did not understand what he had been told by the preacher he was quoting. He even said "I think" this is what will happen. I wanted to say something but I knew I would not be well received and I was too tired anyway. I could see that some of the other people in the group were wincing, but they said nothing.We see some Christians arguing back and forth about what they believe the Bible says about the afterlife. However, they and other Christians adamantly insist that God divinely inspired the Bible. They can't agree on what the Bible says about the afterlife or a variety of other theological subjects relating to Christianity. And some of them have the audacity to piously question your Baha'i beliefs about the afterlife, as well as mine regarding the afterlife and spiritualism. I honestly don't see why these Christians think they should be taken seriously.
I have been attending that GriefShare group since February, and I have not divulged the fact that I am a Baha'i and I don't plan to. Today was painful when one of the group leaders was talking about what he 'believes' will happen when Christians die, the rapture and meeting Jesus in the air. He was obviously confused and unsure and he really did not understand what he had been told by the preacher he was quoting. He even said "I think" this is what will happen. I wanted to say something but I knew I would not be well received and I was too tired anyway. I could see that some of the other people in the group were wincing, but they said nothing.
I would not be surprised if there were spirits lingering on that property. This meeting is held in a country church way out in the middle of nowhere. The building was completely revamped. It used to be a Boy Scout camp years ago and me and my late husband went there to vote, since we lived about a mile down the road in a rustic river rock house on the river that is now a rental.