nPeace
Veteran Member
Exactly. So what's dead besides the body, that will come, or be raised?29 Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?
35 But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?”
the dead what? It does not say the dead body is raised up. It says: “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?”
According to this paraphrased translation, the body is raised, which conflicts with your belief, and mine, so why are you quoting this as an answer to the question What's raised up?The answer to that question comes further down:
42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
Have you changed your mind, and believe it's the body that is raised?
Other translations say "It is sown... It is raise." The do not take the liberty of injecting their beliefs into the text. They instead keep to the original Greek.
So, is your answer to the question What's raised up? The body.?
If not, why did you quote the text, and can you answer the question?
You said earlier, the soul is the person - you, as I too believe.God gives the soul a body. God gives the soul (which is the person) a heavenly body. God gives the soul a heavenly body so it can exist in heaven.
40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.
If you believe the soul does not die, then the soul is not raised up or resurrected. Is that correct?
Why do you keep saying that, since I agree with you that the dead bodies are not raised up.It says raised up, but what does that mean? It says that the dead are raised up, but it does not say the dead bodies are raised up.
I believe the dead are raised up, as the Bible is saying. I believe the person that has died, is raised up, as the Bible says.
Hence, I believe the soul - the person - you... as in the one who dies, is raised up... as the Bible says. That's what resurrection means - a raising up.
No one here has put forth an argument that dead bodies are raised up, so I hope you will stop throwing that up and trying to beat the life out of it.
What I said was, the Bible does say raised up - resurrected.
Looks like you concede to agree. Yes?
spiritual body to be raised up to heaven???Yes, the physical body has to die on earth in order for the spiritual body to be raised up to heaven.
36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body.
Is that what you meant to say? What's raised up Trailblazer, and what does God give a spiritual body to?
The disagreement is quite simple.So what is the disagreement about?
"Those who go to heaven......"
What reason do you have to think that everyone does not go to heaven when they die?
There are no scriptures that say that some people are raised to physical life and continue living in a physical body on earth forever.
The Resuscitation of Man from the Dead and His Entrance into Eternal Life
421. When the body is no longer able to perform the bodily functions in the natural world that correspond to the spirit’s thoughts and affections, which the spirit has from the spiritual world, man is said to die. This takes place when the respiration of the lungs and the beatings of the heart cease. But the man does not die; he is merely separated from the bodily part that was of use to him in the world, while the man himself continues to live. It is said that the man himself continues to live since man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought with affection is what constitutes man. Evidently, then, the death of man is merely his passing from one world into another. And this is why in the Word in its internal sense “death” signifies resurrection and continuation of life. Heaven and Hell, p. 351
While the Bible tells us clearly, that the dead - the person that has died - the soul that has died - you the person, will be raised up - resurrected to life... which I believe.
Those who believe that when one dies, they have not died, but only their body has, while their soul lives on, are not able to mesh that belief with what is in the Bible.
If they claim the soul gets a body, they cannot with the same breath claim they believe in a resurrection, for that statement to be true.
The question of "what is raised up", then becomes a question that has no answer, for those who believe in an immortal soul.
What do you say @Kenny?