-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Where are we now in biblical prophecy?
- Thread starter Etritonakin
- Start date
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
Oh, it is.
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
Your religion is listed as Christian, yet you say we are nowhere in biblical prophecy.
Could you explain?
Christ and the apostles often pointed out how events happening around them were written beforehand -and Christ, while flesh also spoke much of what would happen after he died -not to mention John was given the revelation of Christ after he died -which foretold many specific events....
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
Technically, that is correct -the creation of Adam (not the earth) was approximately 6,000 years ago -so the last 2,000 or so -from Christ to now -are indeed the end times....
2Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers......
2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
....but many specific prophecies have taken place of which many are unaware due to their lack of interest or unwillingness to honestly and diligently study the matter.
Some which are now taking place -and are soon to take place -have very specific time frames associated with them. We cannot know the day or hour of Christ's return -but we can know we are very close. We know that the end of "the beast" -the "king of fierce countenance"/"the Assyrian" will be by the returning Christ himself....
....we also know that he will only reign 1,260 days -3 1/2 years -42 months -a time, times and half a time....
...we also know that he and his will take away the daily (which is not the destruction of a physical temple, but the cessation of the preaching of the gospel OF THE KINGDOM by the church -his spiritual temple) 1,290 days before setting up the abomination of desolation (the destruction of Jerusalem) -and that the gentiles will attack Jerusalem and tread it underfoot for 42 months before the abomination...
...and WE KNOW that which will end in the taking away of the daily is already happening ... that the beast is already active -though not yet reigning...
more on that later....
Beaudreaux
Well-Known Member
Your interpretation of the Book of Revelations is out of sync with mainstream Christianity. Prominent Christian theologians understand this book to be a poetic account of the Roman persecution, not eschatology.
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
.... and so will be taken by surprise as these things happen -not knowing the identity of the house of Israel in these days -or the Assyrian -or the second beast -which will cause these things to be TO THEM as a thief in the night -whereas they will NOT be so to those who seek understanding and righteousness from God. Much of "Christianity" is "out of sync" with God. Why should I believe them instead of the bible -instead of the words God had recorded? It is their interpretation which is contrary to what is stated in the bible.
There are many who do not believe as you have stated, and one's prominence has little to do with understanding the truth. That belief makes little sense -and renders the prophecy worthless in people's minds.
It is not my interpretation. It is the bible's own interpretation of itself -not to mention it is that which IS taking place.
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away....
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
I don't understand how they could arrive at such a conclusion -how could the following be about Roman persecution???
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
It is either true -or wishful thinking that will never come to pass -which would essentially render the entire bible worthless (which some do believe).
Rev 8:9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.
Rev 8:10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
Rev 8:11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.
Rev 9:17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
Rev 9:18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
Are we to believe these are merely the writings of a persecuted people whose desire for revenge caused their imaginations to run wild?
To believe that it is merely a work of poetry is to deny what it states -to deny that it is the following....
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Rev 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
What is written in Revelation did begin then -and is not yet finished.
Some few parts deal with past persecution....
Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
...which refers to the many children who were killed in an attempt to kill Christ when he was first born -and generally includes all of the persecution of Christ to follow...
..but what follows those verses includes things which have not yet happened...
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
This is what takes place when the king of the north -the beast -takes away the daily. This woman -God's church in the end times -will have preached the gospel of THE KINGDOM -which is "the daily" now -and this work will be brought to a close by the beast and those he uses against them -and they will go to a place of safety as "great tribulation" begins. 1,290 days after persecution against them becomes so great that they cannot continue, the abomination of desolation will be set up -also by the beast.
The above -and all of the following -refer to the same time.....
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Dan 12:5 Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.
Dan 12:6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?
Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.
Last edited:
Beaudreaux
Well-Known Member
I have been trying and trying to get my hands on one of these self-interpreting Bibles but no one will tell me where they are!!! I've looked on Amazon, eBay, beezid, Barnes & Noble, Borders.com, the Apple iBooks store, EVERYWHERE! If you and the other fundies I've asked will not share how to get this book, then don't be shocked if we don't believe you.
BTW, the correct interpretation of The Book of Revelations:
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
I feel it is extremely important at this time to point out the fact that I am not one of those who thinks they are going to fare well with God and that all with differing beliefs are doomed.
The gospel of the kingdom includes the understanding that God is not calling all of mankind in this time -from Adam until the return of Christ -but only those who will rule with Christ as immortals on earth during the millenium -the "firstfruits".
Some believe that all who have died not knowing of Christ or believing in him are doomed -will "go to hell", etc...
...but the bible states that the dead IN CHRIST will be resurrected at his return (at the last trump, specifically) -along with the living in Christ -and that THE REST OF THE DEAD will be resurrected 1,000 years later -to the "great white throne" judgment. Some also believe this judgment is all bad -but this is when most of all who have ever lived will have their first opportunity to know and understand -to believe in Christ -and have the opportunity to live forever! God's plan MAKES SENSE! Some whose works warrant it will be cast into the lake of fire, but this is also a time of great joy!
Also, many who now believe other than the true gospel of the kingdom IN THIS TIME will turn to it DURING the "great tribulation". This is part of WHY the gospel of the kingdom is preached AS A WITNESS before the end comes! Many who misunderstand now will realize it as these things ACTUALLY take place -and the things they are expecting do not. Many will wash their robes in the blood of the lamb, as it says, by turning to HIS commandments -rather than the commandments of men -including the sabbath, etc... and, though they may die as a result, will be raised to the first resurrection -and reign with Christ on earth during the thousand years! These are among the "great multitude" spoken of in Revelation.....
Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; ..............
Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Here are some more scriptures relating to these things....
Jas 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished............
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Psa 6:4 Return, O LORD, deliver my soul: oh save me for thy mercies' sake.
Psa 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
Mat 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
The gospel of the kingdom includes the understanding that God is not calling all of mankind in this time -from Adam until the return of Christ -but only those who will rule with Christ as immortals on earth during the millenium -the "firstfruits".
Some believe that all who have died not knowing of Christ or believing in him are doomed -will "go to hell", etc...
...but the bible states that the dead IN CHRIST will be resurrected at his return (at the last trump, specifically) -along with the living in Christ -and that THE REST OF THE DEAD will be resurrected 1,000 years later -to the "great white throne" judgment. Some also believe this judgment is all bad -but this is when most of all who have ever lived will have their first opportunity to know and understand -to believe in Christ -and have the opportunity to live forever! God's plan MAKES SENSE! Some whose works warrant it will be cast into the lake of fire, but this is also a time of great joy!
Also, many who now believe other than the true gospel of the kingdom IN THIS TIME will turn to it DURING the "great tribulation". This is part of WHY the gospel of the kingdom is preached AS A WITNESS before the end comes! Many who misunderstand now will realize it as these things ACTUALLY take place -and the things they are expecting do not. Many will wash their robes in the blood of the lamb, as it says, by turning to HIS commandments -rather than the commandments of men -including the sabbath, etc... and, though they may die as a result, will be raised to the first resurrection -and reign with Christ on earth during the thousand years! These are among the "great multitude" spoken of in Revelation.....
Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; ..............
Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Here are some more scriptures relating to these things....
Jas 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished............
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Psa 6:4 Return, O LORD, deliver my soul: oh save me for thy mercies' sake.
Psa 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
Mat 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Beaudreaux
Well-Known Member
OK, two things: first, The Book of Revelations is not about the future. It is widely accepted to be a warning to the 1st Century church not to conform to Rome.
Second, this is a discussion forum, not a bulletin board. If you have ideas, please communicate them in your own words. A Bible quote here and there is fine, but 5 paragraphs followed by 50 quotations is a waste of time and space. If you know what you want to say, say it.
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
(Please refer to my latest post)
That is hilarious, but seriously -here is the sort of thing I am referring to......
When I have said that the highest branch of the cedar refers to the Assyrian, many are quick to point out that in Ezekiel 17 is written what is meant by those things -as it says.....
Eze 17:12 Say now to the rebellious house, Know ye not what these things mean? tell them, Behold, the king of Babylon is come to Jerusalem, and hath taken the king thereof, and the princes thereof, and led them with him to Babylon;
...but they fail to understand that, though the above is true, the chapter is BOTH a riddle and parable -and this example is merely a key to understanding the rest -AND the fact that the cedar is identified as the Assyrian in the same book!
Eze 17:2 Son of man, put forth a riddle, and speak a parable unto the house of Israel;
Eze 17:3 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; A great eagle with great wings, longwinged, full of feathers, which had divers colours, came unto Lebanon, and took the highest branch of the cedar:
Eze 17:4 He cropped off the top of his young twigs, and carried it into a land of traffick; he set it in a city of merchants.
Eze 17:5 He took also of the seed of the land, and planted it in a fruitful field; he placed it by great waters, and set it as a willow tree.
Eze 31:3 Behold, the Assyrian was a cedar in Lebanon with fair branches, and with a shadowing shroud, and of an high stature; and his top was among the thick boughs.
Eze 31:4 The waters made him great, the deep set him up on high with her rivers running round about his plants, and sent out her little rivers unto all the trees of the field.
Eze 31:5 Therefore his height was exalted above all the trees of the field, and his boughs were multiplied, and his branches became long because of the multitude of waters, when he shot forth.
So... rather than guessing what the prophecies mean -rather than relying on my own understanding -I seek the answers elsewhere in the bible... as it says...
Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
As for this highest branch of the cedar, etc... the Assyrian -it says that great waters made him great! Yet ancient Assyria was not made great by the Mediterranean Sea. The warring and ruling classes of the ancient Assyrians -as you can read in history books and encyclopedias -migrated from Nineveh to Haran - and then on to Germany -as described in Ezekiel 17:3-5. Their (Aryans) relationship with the US and Britain (the two great eagles of Ezekiel 17) is well-documented. Ezekiel 17:9 describes Germany's defeats in WWI and II by primarily the British -and 17:10 describes their CURRENT RISE and eventual defeat by the "kings of the east"....
Eze 17:10 Yea, behold, being planted, shall it prosper? shall it not utterly wither, when the east wind toucheth it? it shall wither in the furrows where it grew.
This is their CURRENT RISE:
EU Army
...which includes their involvement in the US CORPORATE SECTOR -made legal again during the Clinton administration -look up Daimler/Chrysler, ThyssenKrupp, Siemens, DegeschAmerica, etc.. -all associated with the Nazi concentration camps....
This is not my interpretation -this is happening.
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
That is your opinion. When I make statements without verses, people complain that I do not include verses -if it irks you -feel free to ignore my posts. If it is against the rules of this forum, please notify an administrator/staff and have them explain it to me. I do not believe I am in violation of the rules of this forum. I speak of scripture in my own words -and include the scriptures I reference. If you believe it to be a waste of time, I'd suggest you no longer waste your time reading my posts.
Last edited:
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
Right, according to your interpretation.
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
Nooooooooooooooooo -according to the news which is available to all -but not necessarily understood by many....... note videos and especially related links
Most recently -the Nazis have "UNPIMP"ed our "AUTO".
[youtube]-LuChM3_dZ4[/youtube]
YouTube - unpimp your auto 2
[youtube]ZbubK2l4yD8[/youtube]
YouTube - Unpimp your auto
Automotive industry crisis of 2008–2010 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
...and even -rather boldly -yet subtly -sent a message to our prez about a neo- Kristallnacht!
... If a Teleprompter Falls in the White House Does It Make a Sound? - Political Punch
... [youtube]B0UOnCQO2-Y[/youtube]
YouTube - 2010 Mercedes E-Class Coupe Crashes Through Glass
The Nazis had a word for this sort of psychological pre-cursor to actual military action.... can't remember what it is....
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
Right, i.e., people who don't interpret it the same way you.
Blackdog22
Well-Known Member
Okay. You are free to believe as you wish, but your making some pretty outlandish claims. The whole nazis invading our auto industry? That guy is an actor, he has been in American movies for years. That is just very, very paranoid. That commercial is also 4 years old. What exactly did that commercial do to further the end times?
Secondly this statement:
I mean honestly is there anything that will make you not believe this? People have been wrong for at least a thousand years about "their" interpretation of the Bible, and somehow no one pays any mind to the obvious fact (Its a lie) and continue on in persuit desperately trying to find something of truth in this backwards, contradicting book. It's very ironic that I should be expected to believe these claims if one comes true, but when 1000s don't come true on the Christian side of things its glossed over as if it never happened.
By your own standards do you think it would be wrong of atheists to deny proof God existed (I wouldn't) since you deny the Proof(false prophesies) that the Bible is false?
Secondly this statement:
If this happens soon (Possibly, but probably not) and it goes on for only 1 year, or 3 years or 4 years and it plainly proves that the Bible is wrong and is a book of false prophets will you still believe your wild claims or will you ignore the fact and continue in persuit of something else rediculous?
I mean honestly is there anything that will make you not believe this? People have been wrong for at least a thousand years about "their" interpretation of the Bible, and somehow no one pays any mind to the obvious fact (Its a lie) and continue on in persuit desperately trying to find something of truth in this backwards, contradicting book. It's very ironic that I should be expected to believe these claims if one comes true, but when 1000s don't come true on the Christian side of things its glossed over as if it never happened.
By your own standards do you think it would be wrong of atheists to deny proof God existed (I wouldn't) since you deny the Proof(false prophesies) that the Bible is false?
Last edited:
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
These are not outlandish claims. These are facts. This is not paranoia, but recorded recent history -and I do not merely theorize, I have met them (not by choice) and seen them in action. (The fact that an American actor was used in the commercial means little. I'm not saying he's a Nazi himself -but they don't wear uniforms or [usually] give themselves away unneccesarily -only for a purpose.) If this were not the case, I would completely understand why someone might think me paranoid. I was in close proximity to them around 9-11, and they themselves suggested their own involvement (not-so-coincidentally, 9-11 to most of the world means Nov.9th -the anniversary of the Beer Hall Putsch).
Our own declassified intelligence documents outline Nazi plans to continue their activities through the industrial sector....
S E C R E T
SUPREME HEADQUARTERS ALLIED EXPEDITIONARY FORCE
Office of Assistant Chief of Staff, G-2
7 November 1944
INTELLIGENCE REPORT NO. EW-Pa 128
SUBJECT: Plans of German industrialists to engage in underground activity after Germany’s defeat; flow of capital to neutral countries.
SOURCE: Agent of French Deuxieme Bureau, recommended by Commandant Zindel. This agent is regarded as reliable and has worked for the French on German problems since 1916. He was in close contact with the Germans, particularly industrialists, during the occupation of France and he visited Germany as late as August, 1944.
1. A meeting of the principal German industrialists with interests in France was held on August 10, 1944, in the Hotel Rotes Haus in Strasbourg, France, and attended by the informant indicated above as the source. Among those present were the following:
Dr. Scheid, who presided, holding the rank of S.S. Obergruppen-fuhrer and Director of the Heche (Hermandorff & Schonburg) Company
Dr. Kaspar, representing Krupp
Dr. Tolle, representing Rochling
Dr. Sinderen, representing Messerschmitt
Drs. Kopp, Vier and Beerwanger, representing Rheinmetall
Captain Haberkorn and Dr. Ruhe, representing Bussing
Drs. Ellenmayer and Kardos, representing Volkswagenwerk
Engineers Drose, Yanchew and Koppshem, representing various factories in Posen, Poland (Drose, Yanchew and Co., Brown-Boveri, Herkuleswerke, Buschwerke, and Stadtwerke)
Captain Dornbuach, head of the Industrial Inspection Section at Posen
Dr. Meyer, an official of the German Naval Ministry in Paris
Dr. Strossner, of the Ministry of Armament, Paris.
2. Dr. Scheid stated that all industrial material in France was to be evacuated to Germany immediately. The battle of France was lost for Germany and now the defense of the Siegried Line was the main problem. From now on also German industry must realize that the war cannot be won and that it must take steps in preparation for a post-war commercial campaign. Each industrialist must make contacts and alliances with foreign firms, but this must be done individually and without attracting any suspicion. Moreover, the ground would have to be laid on the financial level for borrowing considerable sums from foreign countries after the war. As examples of the kind of penetration which had been most useful in the past, Dr. Scheid cited the fact that patents for stainless steel belonged to the Chemical Foundation, Inc., New York, and the Krupp company of Germany jointly and that the U.S. Steel Corporation, Carnegie Illinois, American Steel and Wire, and national Tube, etc. were thereby under an obligation to work with the Krupp concern. He also cited the Zeiss Company, the Leisa Company and the Hamburg-American Line as firms which had been especially effective in protecting German interests abroad and gave their New York addresses to the industrialists at this meeting.
3. Following this meeting a smaller one was held presided over by Dr. Bosse of the German Armaments Ministry and attended only by representatives of Hecho, Krupp and Rochling. At this second meeting it was stated that the Nazi Party had informed the industrialists that the war was practically lost but that it would continue until a guarantee of the unity of Germany could be obtained. German industrialists must, it was said, through their exports increase the strength of Germany. They must also prepare themselves to finance the Nazi Party which would be forced to go underground as Maquis (in Gebirgaverteidi-gungastellen gehen). From now on the government would allocate large sums to industrialists so that each could establish a secure post-war foundation in foreign countries. Existing financial reserves in foreign countries must be placed at the disposal of the Party so that a strong German Empire can be created after the defeat. It is also immediately required that the large factories in Germany create small technical offices or research bureaus which would be absolutely independent and have no known connection with the factory. These bureaus will receive plans and drawings of new weapons as well as documents which they need to continue their research and which must not be allowed to fall into the hands of the enemy. These offices are to be established in large cities where they can be most successfully hidden as well as in little villages near sources of hydro-electric power where they can pretend to be studying the development of water resources. The existence of these is to be known only by very few people in each industry and by chiefs of the Nazi Party. Each office will have a liaison agent with the Party. As soon as the Party becomes strong enough to re-establish its control over Germany the industrialists will be paid for their effort and cooperation by concessions and orders.
4. These meetings seem to indicate that the prohibition against the export of capital which was rigorously enforced until now has been completely withdrawn and replaced by a new Nazi policy whereby industrialists with government assistance will export as much of their capital as possible. Previously exports of capital by German industrialists to neutral countries had to be accomplished rather surreptitiously and by means of special influence. Now the Nazi party stands behind the industrialists and urges them to save themselves by getting funds outside Germany and at the same time to advance the Party’s plans for its post-war operation. This freedom given to the industrialists further coments their relations with the Party by giving them a measure of protection.
5. The German industrialists are not only buying agricultural property in Germany but are placing their funds abroad, particularly in neutral countries. Two main banks through which this export of capital operates are the Basler Handelsbank and the Schweizerische Kreditanstalt of Zurich. Also there are a number of agencies in Switzerland which for a five per cent commission buy property in Switzerland, using a Swiss cloak.
6. After the defeat of Germany and the Nazi Party recognizes that certain of its best known leaders will be condemned as war criminals. However, in cooperation with the industrialists it is arranging to place its less conspicuous but most important members in positions with various German factories as technical experts or members of its research and designing offices.
For the A.C. of S., G-2.
WALTER K. SCHWINN
G-2, Economic Section
Prepared by
MELVIN M. FAGEN
Distribution:
Same as EW-Pa 1,
U.S. Political Adviser, SHAEF
British Political Adviser, SHAEF
The very title DAIMLER CHRYSLER is concrete proof of at least the fact that a company known to be involved with Nazi concentration camps gained control of a US auto company. Degesch ( Degesch America Inc. ) brought us the Zyklon B gas -and now makes pest control products in the US. Volkswagen, Siemens, Krupp ( Home - ThyssenKrupp AG ), etc., etc.. were also involved with the concentration camps.
This could be as meaningless as our now driving Mitsubishi's -the Japanese company which brought us the WWII A6M "Zero" fighter plane -except that the Nazis' intent is obvious and well documented. EU Army
The very idea of the EU was conceived by SS officers near the end of WWII -as a means to keep Nazism alive -and give them even more power, resources and range than before -and the EU is fast becoming a greater superpower than the US. It now has its own intelligence arm, military, independent GPS system and currency -and Germany, which was once not even allowed to have a military -and which was not allowed to possess nuclear weapons -now has access to both -and is the strongest member of the EU.
Why should I doubt these things -I heard them before they happened -now they have happened -what's not to believe????
...to be continued
Our own declassified intelligence documents outline Nazi plans to continue their activities through the industrial sector....
S E C R E T
SUPREME HEADQUARTERS ALLIED EXPEDITIONARY FORCE
Office of Assistant Chief of Staff, G-2
7 November 1944
INTELLIGENCE REPORT NO. EW-Pa 128
SUBJECT: Plans of German industrialists to engage in underground activity after Germany’s defeat; flow of capital to neutral countries.
SOURCE: Agent of French Deuxieme Bureau, recommended by Commandant Zindel. This agent is regarded as reliable and has worked for the French on German problems since 1916. He was in close contact with the Germans, particularly industrialists, during the occupation of France and he visited Germany as late as August, 1944.
1. A meeting of the principal German industrialists with interests in France was held on August 10, 1944, in the Hotel Rotes Haus in Strasbourg, France, and attended by the informant indicated above as the source. Among those present were the following:
Dr. Scheid, who presided, holding the rank of S.S. Obergruppen-fuhrer and Director of the Heche (Hermandorff & Schonburg) Company
Dr. Kaspar, representing Krupp
Dr. Tolle, representing Rochling
Dr. Sinderen, representing Messerschmitt
Drs. Kopp, Vier and Beerwanger, representing Rheinmetall
Captain Haberkorn and Dr. Ruhe, representing Bussing
Drs. Ellenmayer and Kardos, representing Volkswagenwerk
Engineers Drose, Yanchew and Koppshem, representing various factories in Posen, Poland (Drose, Yanchew and Co., Brown-Boveri, Herkuleswerke, Buschwerke, and Stadtwerke)
Captain Dornbuach, head of the Industrial Inspection Section at Posen
Dr. Meyer, an official of the German Naval Ministry in Paris
Dr. Strossner, of the Ministry of Armament, Paris.
2. Dr. Scheid stated that all industrial material in France was to be evacuated to Germany immediately. The battle of France was lost for Germany and now the defense of the Siegried Line was the main problem. From now on also German industry must realize that the war cannot be won and that it must take steps in preparation for a post-war commercial campaign. Each industrialist must make contacts and alliances with foreign firms, but this must be done individually and without attracting any suspicion. Moreover, the ground would have to be laid on the financial level for borrowing considerable sums from foreign countries after the war. As examples of the kind of penetration which had been most useful in the past, Dr. Scheid cited the fact that patents for stainless steel belonged to the Chemical Foundation, Inc., New York, and the Krupp company of Germany jointly and that the U.S. Steel Corporation, Carnegie Illinois, American Steel and Wire, and national Tube, etc. were thereby under an obligation to work with the Krupp concern. He also cited the Zeiss Company, the Leisa Company and the Hamburg-American Line as firms which had been especially effective in protecting German interests abroad and gave their New York addresses to the industrialists at this meeting.
3. Following this meeting a smaller one was held presided over by Dr. Bosse of the German Armaments Ministry and attended only by representatives of Hecho, Krupp and Rochling. At this second meeting it was stated that the Nazi Party had informed the industrialists that the war was practically lost but that it would continue until a guarantee of the unity of Germany could be obtained. German industrialists must, it was said, through their exports increase the strength of Germany. They must also prepare themselves to finance the Nazi Party which would be forced to go underground as Maquis (in Gebirgaverteidi-gungastellen gehen). From now on the government would allocate large sums to industrialists so that each could establish a secure post-war foundation in foreign countries. Existing financial reserves in foreign countries must be placed at the disposal of the Party so that a strong German Empire can be created after the defeat. It is also immediately required that the large factories in Germany create small technical offices or research bureaus which would be absolutely independent and have no known connection with the factory. These bureaus will receive plans and drawings of new weapons as well as documents which they need to continue their research and which must not be allowed to fall into the hands of the enemy. These offices are to be established in large cities where they can be most successfully hidden as well as in little villages near sources of hydro-electric power where they can pretend to be studying the development of water resources. The existence of these is to be known only by very few people in each industry and by chiefs of the Nazi Party. Each office will have a liaison agent with the Party. As soon as the Party becomes strong enough to re-establish its control over Germany the industrialists will be paid for their effort and cooperation by concessions and orders.
4. These meetings seem to indicate that the prohibition against the export of capital which was rigorously enforced until now has been completely withdrawn and replaced by a new Nazi policy whereby industrialists with government assistance will export as much of their capital as possible. Previously exports of capital by German industrialists to neutral countries had to be accomplished rather surreptitiously and by means of special influence. Now the Nazi party stands behind the industrialists and urges them to save themselves by getting funds outside Germany and at the same time to advance the Party’s plans for its post-war operation. This freedom given to the industrialists further coments their relations with the Party by giving them a measure of protection.
5. The German industrialists are not only buying agricultural property in Germany but are placing their funds abroad, particularly in neutral countries. Two main banks through which this export of capital operates are the Basler Handelsbank and the Schweizerische Kreditanstalt of Zurich. Also there are a number of agencies in Switzerland which for a five per cent commission buy property in Switzerland, using a Swiss cloak.
6. After the defeat of Germany and the Nazi Party recognizes that certain of its best known leaders will be condemned as war criminals. However, in cooperation with the industrialists it is arranging to place its less conspicuous but most important members in positions with various German factories as technical experts or members of its research and designing offices.
For the A.C. of S., G-2.
WALTER K. SCHWINN
G-2, Economic Section
Prepared by
MELVIN M. FAGEN
Distribution:
Same as EW-Pa 1,
U.S. Political Adviser, SHAEF
British Political Adviser, SHAEF
The very title DAIMLER CHRYSLER is concrete proof of at least the fact that a company known to be involved with Nazi concentration camps gained control of a US auto company. Degesch ( Degesch America Inc. ) brought us the Zyklon B gas -and now makes pest control products in the US. Volkswagen, Siemens, Krupp ( Home - ThyssenKrupp AG ), etc., etc.. were also involved with the concentration camps.
This could be as meaningless as our now driving Mitsubishi's -the Japanese company which brought us the WWII A6M "Zero" fighter plane -except that the Nazis' intent is obvious and well documented. EU Army
The very idea of the EU was conceived by SS officers near the end of WWII -as a means to keep Nazism alive -and give them even more power, resources and range than before -and the EU is fast becoming a greater superpower than the US. It now has its own intelligence arm, military, independent GPS system and currency -and Germany, which was once not even allowed to have a military -and which was not allowed to possess nuclear weapons -now has access to both -and is the strongest member of the EU.
Why should I doubt these things -I heard them before they happened -now they have happened -what's not to believe????
...to be continued
Last edited:
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
Continued....
Very few in Europe, or even Germany, would welcome another Hitler type, but this will not stop it from happening. The last "king of the north" will not have Jewish ancestry as Hitler did -but will be very much Aryan -if not descended from the last Assyrian king (Ashur-Uballit II -who also reigned only 3 1/2 years before retreating to Haran) ...
Eze 17:22 Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will also take of the highest branch of the high cedar, and will set it; I will crop off from the top of his young twigs a tender one, and will plant it upon an high mountain and eminent:
(It goes on to say he will plant it in the height of the mountain of Israel, but it is not Israel. It is the Assyrian as stated in 31:3 -which God also calls the rod of his anger against Israel in Isaiah 10 -and will cause to flourish to accomplish his purpose).
He will not be welcomed as ruler when he begins to reign -but will reign nonetheless...
Dan 11:21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.
Dan 11:22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant. Dan 11:23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people. Dan 11:24 He shall enter peaceably even upon the fattest places of the province; and he shall do that which his fathers have not done, nor his fathers' fathers; he shall scatter among them the prey, and spoil, and riches: yea, and he shall forecast his devices against the strong holds, even for a time.
He'll essentially be among the rich and powerful -and gain the kingdom by a silver tongue. He also won't be big on the dating scene (though he may appear to be)....
Dan 11:37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
Why should I doubt what I hear before it happens -and then see happening???
Should these things not come to pass, I would be very happy. However, only turning to God can prevent them -at least how we are affected.
Ironically, the only biblically recorded example of mass repentance at the declaration of destruction from God happened in ancient Nineveh -the Assyrian capital city. It can be found in the book of Jonah.
Jonah was rather disappointed that the destruction did not take place -and probably felt foolish -especially after running away from the job -being swallowed then eventually puked up by a sea creature, etc...
I would be very glad, however, as a crippling attack on America and its other allies is generally simultaneous to the beginning of the attack on Jerusalem/Israel.
I don't want to see it happen, which is why I write of these things to as many as possible -as understanding that they are happening might motivate some to turn to God -which is the only way the following may be prevented.....
Isa 10:1 Woe unto them that decree unrighteous decrees, and that write grievousness which they have prescribed; Isa 10:2 To turn aside the needy from judgment, and to take away the right from the poor of my people, that widows may be their prey, and that they may rob the fatherless!
Isa 10:3 And what will ye do in the day of visitation, and in the desolation which shall come from far? to whom will ye flee for help? and where will ye leave your glory? Isa 10:4 Without me they shall bow down under the prisoners, and they shall fall under the slain. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.
Isa 10:5 O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation.
Isa 10:6 I will send him against an hypocritical nation, and against the people of my wrath will I give him a charge, to take the spoil, and to take the prey, and to tread them down like the mire of the streets.
Isa 10:7 Howbeit he meaneth not so, neither doth his heart think so; but it is in his heart to destroy and cut off nations not a few.
Jer 18:7 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;
Jer 18:8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
Jer 18:9 And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it;
Jer 18:10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.
I am hypocritcal -and seek to change that daily. It is not as if I am saying I am righteous and everyone else is not -but it is important that people hear these things. Many prevent these things from being heard, as they think it strategically necessary, but they do not understand the nature of what is happening. Just as it was in the days of Jeremiah -they want an exclusive report, and control of the information -they want the intel and ignore the wisdom -they just don't get the point. If people understood, they might turn and it might be prevented, but they keep them in ignorance, and even stir people up against it being heard -and against those who would tell it... just as it was then.......
Jer 20:8 For since I spake, I cried out, I cried violence and spoil; because the word of the LORD was made a reproach unto me, and a derision, daily.
Jer 20:9 Then I said, I will not make mention of him, nor speak any more in his name. But his word was in mine heart as a burning fire shut up in my bones, and I was weary with forbearing, and I could not stay.
Jer 20:10 For I heard the defaming of many, fear on every side. Report, say they, and we will report it. All my familiars watched for my halting, saying, Peradventure he will be enticed, and we shall prevail against him, and we shall take our revenge on him.
Very few in Europe, or even Germany, would welcome another Hitler type, but this will not stop it from happening. The last "king of the north" will not have Jewish ancestry as Hitler did -but will be very much Aryan -if not descended from the last Assyrian king (Ashur-Uballit II -who also reigned only 3 1/2 years before retreating to Haran) ...
Eze 17:22 Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will also take of the highest branch of the high cedar, and will set it; I will crop off from the top of his young twigs a tender one, and will plant it upon an high mountain and eminent:
(It goes on to say he will plant it in the height of the mountain of Israel, but it is not Israel. It is the Assyrian as stated in 31:3 -which God also calls the rod of his anger against Israel in Isaiah 10 -and will cause to flourish to accomplish his purpose).
He will not be welcomed as ruler when he begins to reign -but will reign nonetheless...
Dan 11:21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.
Dan 11:22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant. Dan 11:23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people. Dan 11:24 He shall enter peaceably even upon the fattest places of the province; and he shall do that which his fathers have not done, nor his fathers' fathers; he shall scatter among them the prey, and spoil, and riches: yea, and he shall forecast his devices against the strong holds, even for a time.
He'll essentially be among the rich and powerful -and gain the kingdom by a silver tongue. He also won't be big on the dating scene (though he may appear to be)....
Dan 11:37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
Why should I doubt what I hear before it happens -and then see happening???
Should these things not come to pass, I would be very happy. However, only turning to God can prevent them -at least how we are affected.
Ironically, the only biblically recorded example of mass repentance at the declaration of destruction from God happened in ancient Nineveh -the Assyrian capital city. It can be found in the book of Jonah.
Jonah was rather disappointed that the destruction did not take place -and probably felt foolish -especially after running away from the job -being swallowed then eventually puked up by a sea creature, etc...
I would be very glad, however, as a crippling attack on America and its other allies is generally simultaneous to the beginning of the attack on Jerusalem/Israel.
I don't want to see it happen, which is why I write of these things to as many as possible -as understanding that they are happening might motivate some to turn to God -which is the only way the following may be prevented.....
Isa 10:1 Woe unto them that decree unrighteous decrees, and that write grievousness which they have prescribed; Isa 10:2 To turn aside the needy from judgment, and to take away the right from the poor of my people, that widows may be their prey, and that they may rob the fatherless!
Isa 10:3 And what will ye do in the day of visitation, and in the desolation which shall come from far? to whom will ye flee for help? and where will ye leave your glory? Isa 10:4 Without me they shall bow down under the prisoners, and they shall fall under the slain. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.
Isa 10:5 O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation.
Isa 10:6 I will send him against an hypocritical nation, and against the people of my wrath will I give him a charge, to take the spoil, and to take the prey, and to tread them down like the mire of the streets.
Isa 10:7 Howbeit he meaneth not so, neither doth his heart think so; but it is in his heart to destroy and cut off nations not a few.
Jer 18:7 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;
Jer 18:8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
Jer 18:9 And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it;
Jer 18:10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.
I am hypocritcal -and seek to change that daily. It is not as if I am saying I am righteous and everyone else is not -but it is important that people hear these things. Many prevent these things from being heard, as they think it strategically necessary, but they do not understand the nature of what is happening. Just as it was in the days of Jeremiah -they want an exclusive report, and control of the information -they want the intel and ignore the wisdom -they just don't get the point. If people understood, they might turn and it might be prevented, but they keep them in ignorance, and even stir people up against it being heard -and against those who would tell it... just as it was then.......
Jer 20:8 For since I spake, I cried out, I cried violence and spoil; because the word of the LORD was made a reproach unto me, and a derision, daily.
Jer 20:9 Then I said, I will not make mention of him, nor speak any more in his name. But his word was in mine heart as a burning fire shut up in my bones, and I was weary with forbearing, and I could not stay.
Jer 20:10 For I heard the defaming of many, fear on every side. Report, say they, and we will report it. All my familiars watched for my halting, saying, Peradventure he will be enticed, and we shall prevail against him, and we shall take our revenge on him.
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
Zec 12:6 In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.
The above has happened since WWII. The following is happening -Jerusalem is a cup of trembling -a burdensome stone -it is central to the events now taking place -Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan (Iran is involved in what is happenening in Afghanistan, and we went to iraq to stand against primarily Iran -who apparently wopuldn't mind if Israel was wiped off the map) -which has many worried about a nuclear WWIII.
Zec 12:2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.
Zec 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
I don't want Israel to be attacked for 3 1/2 years, but God -who has made them strong thus far -has things against them -and will allow the following to happen...
Isa 29:1 Woe to Ariel, to Ariel, the city where David dwelt! add ye year to year; let them kill sacrifices. Isa 29:2 Yet I will distress Ariel, and there shall be heaviness and sorrow: and it shall be unto me as Ariel.
Isa 29:3 And I will camp against thee round about, and will lay siege against thee with a mount, and I will raise forts against thee.
Isa 29:4 And thou shalt be brought down, and shalt speak out of the ground, and thy speech shall be low out of the dust, and thy voice shall be, as of one that hath a familiar spirit, out of the ground, and thy speech shall whisper out of the dust.
Isa 29:5 Moreover the multitude of thy strangers shall be like small dust, and the multitude of the terrible ones shall be as chaff that passeth away: yea, it shall be at an instant suddenly.
Isa 29:6 Thou shalt be visited of the LORD of hosts with thunder, and with earthquake, and great noise, with storm and tempest, and the flame of devouring fire.
Isa 29:7 And the multitude of all the nations that fight against Ariel, even all that fight against her and her munition, and that distress her, shall be as a dream of a night vision.
Isa 29:8 It shall even be as when an hungry man dreameth, and, behold, he eateth; but he awaketh, and his soul is empty: or as when a thirsty man dreameth, and, behold, he drinketh; but he awaketh, and, behold, he is faint, and his soul hath appetite: so shall the multitude of all the nations be, that fight against mount Zion.
Isa 29:9 Stay yourselves, and wonder; cry ye out, and cry: they are drunken, but not with wine; they stagger, but not with strong drink.
Isa 29:10 For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.
Isa 29:11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
Isa 29:12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
Isa 29:13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
Isa 29:14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.
Isa 29:15 Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the LORD, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us?
Isa 29:16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?
Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
If these things do not take place, I will certainly not be disappointed -though perhaps a bit confused -and will definitely believe I have relied on "my interpretation" of prophecy. This has not been the case thus far, however, and obeying God's commandments is still most important -and would bring about the peace and happiness most desire.
Blackdog22
Well-Known Member
So. If they keep winning it is simply because God is letting them win and if they lose it is because God is letting them lose. So basically this prophesy has no way to fail.
Jerusalem is surviving because countries are looking out for them and WW3 could happen if anything happens to Jerusalem. Free will and these predictions dont exactly pan out. At any moment peace could happen between everyone, but of course then we would just skip to the Anti Christ prophesy and forget all the prophesies that have yet to come true.. Even Jesus' prophesies haven't come true.
Jerusalem is surviving because countries are looking out for them and WW3 could happen if anything happens to Jerusalem. Free will and these predictions dont exactly pan out. At any moment peace could happen between everyone, but of course then we would just skip to the Anti Christ prophesy and forget all the prophesies that have yet to come true.. Even Jesus' prophesies haven't come true.
idea
Question Everything
If you want to see some of the others God has been concerned with...
The Book of Mormon - by Jamie Turner - Helium
watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voY8jNcuGe8
the Mayans did not get the creation story from the Spanish conquistadors... guess where they got it?
Last edited: