Where does the Quran say Muhammad is the last Messenger of God?

[Truthseeker]

Being completed means nothing will be added or deleted

It was complete for that time is another possible interpretation. Will you allow us to have our own interpretation and not just blindly adopt yours?

 

[Truthseeker]

Prophet says, the Imams are 12 after Me.
But Imam does not mean a successor always. Abraham was an Imam, a Khalif according to the Quran. So, not all Imams are only a successor of Muhammad. The 12th one is not only an Imam, but also someone who has a new Book, according to the Hadithes.

I like that.

But I don't like the endless arguing. I hope it stops soon.

 

[Link]

There was no shia during the time of Mohammad pbuh.

Shias just means followers. Following Ahlulbayt (A) was the religion of Mohammad (S) from the start.

 

[MyM]

Stop that! You are saying that you and only you are qualified to interpret the Qur'an.

I am not saying anything of the sort. I am just giving you authenticated evidences. AND QURAN. it's not me saying the Quran or Ahadith.

 

[Link]

I am not saying anything of the sort. I am just giving you authenticated evidences. AND QURAN. it's not me saying the Quran or Ahadith.

Salam

You have to hold on to what is CLEAR in Quran to YOU. Different things are clear to different people in Quran. Hold on and build from what is clear to you only. Admit it's ambiguous parts to you, but don't follow any of it without seek clarification in what is clear from it to you. Inshallah, the fact Mohammad (s) is the last Nabi and that day of judgment is what Quran has described detail to be - a day when signs are so evident no one can deny it nor can a soul reform it's self anymore, will remain clear in your heart.

Bahais religion has so few members, not that this makes it false, but I don't see it gaining when they rely heavily on Mutashibihat which is forbidden in Quran.

They explain Isa (A) to be the day of judgment of Musa (a), Mohammad (s) the day of judgment of Isa (a), and Ba'ahallah the day of judgment of Mohammad (s).

It makes frankly no sense with how Quran has described the day of judgment. Also, Isa (a) is the 12th Captain under covenant of Musa (a), so he couldn't even get his concept right.

 

[MyM]

That is what you believe the Qur'an says. How about an open mind yourself?

“And say: ‘The truth is from your Lord.’ Then whosoever wills, let him believe; and whosoever wills, let him disbelieve”
al-Kahf 18:29

وَمَا كَانَ لِمُؤۡمِنٍ وَّلَا مُؤۡمِنَةٍ اِذَا قَضَى اللّٰهُ وَرَسُوۡلُهٗۤ اَمۡرًا اَنۡ يَّكُوۡنَ لَهُمُ الۡخِيَرَةُ مِنۡ اَمۡرِهِمۡ ؕ وَمَنۡ يَّعۡصِ اللّٰهَ وَرَسُوۡلَهٗ فَقَدۡ ضَلَّ ضَلٰلًا مُّبِيۡنًا
It does not behove a believer, male or female, that when Allah and His Messenger have decided an affair they should exercise their choice. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger has strayed to manifest error.

It's not about being open minded. iIn Islam, When Allah says it, we are not to say otherwise or give our own opinion into it. It's pretty clear when Allah tells you straight forward he completed the religion and nothing else will be added to it or deleted. Allah is not a liar.

 

[MyM]

Salam

You have to hold on to what is CLEAR in Quran to YOU. Different things are clear to different people in Quran. Hold on and build from what is clear to you only. Admit it's ambiguous parts to you, but don't follow any of it without seek clarification in what is clear from it to you. Inshallah, the fact Mohammad (s) is the last Nabi and that day of judgment is what Quran has described detail to be - a day when signs are so evident no one can deny it nor can a soul reform it's self anymore, will remain clear in your heart.

Bahais religion has so few members, not that this makes it false, but I don't see it gaining when they rely heavily on Mutashibihat which is forbidden in Quran.

They explain Isa (A) to be the day of judgment of Musa (a), Mohammad (s) the day of judgment of Isa (a), and Ba'ahallah the day of judgment of Mohammad (s).

It makes frankly no sense with how Quran has described the day of judgment. Also, Isa (a) is the 12th Captain under covenant of Musa (a), so he couldn't even get his concept right.

وَمَا كَانَ لِمُؤۡمِنٍ وَّلَا مُؤۡمِنَةٍ اِذَا قَضَى اللّٰهُ وَرَسُوۡلُهٗۤ اَمۡرًا اَنۡ يَّكُوۡنَ لَهُمُ الۡخِيَرَةُ مِنۡ اَمۡرِهِمۡ ؕ وَمَنۡ يَّعۡصِ اللّٰهَ وَرَسُوۡلَهٗ فَقَدۡ ضَلَّ ضَلٰلًا مُّبِيۡنًا
It does not behove a believer, male or female, that when Allah and His Messenger have decided an affair they should exercise their choice. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger has strayed to manifest error.
sura ah zab 36

That is all I will say. In Islam, no one has a right to overrule Allah swt and his words in the Quran. This is how the people went astray from the past. So, in Islam, if Allah says something and they say otherwise, it's a lie-especially if it is proven authentic and that source is Allah himself.

 

[MyM]

It was complete for that time is another possible interpretation. Will you allow us to have our own interpretation and not just blindly adopt yours?

وَمَا كَانَ لِمُؤۡمِنٍ وَّلَا مُؤۡمِنَةٍ اِذَا قَضَى اللّٰهُ وَرَسُوۡلُهٗۤ اَمۡرًا اَنۡ يَّكُوۡنَ لَهُمُ الۡخِيَرَةُ مِنۡ اَمۡرِهِمۡ ؕ وَمَنۡ يَّعۡصِ اللّٰهَ وَرَسُوۡلَهٗ فَقَدۡ ضَلَّ ضَلٰلًا مُّبِيۡنًا
It does not behove a believer, male or female, that when Allah and His Messenger have decided an affair they should exercise their choice. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger has strayed to manifest error.

sura ah zab 36

Go ahead be my guest.

 

[Link]

وَمَا كَانَ لِمُؤۡمِنٍ وَّلَا مُؤۡمِنَةٍ اِذَا قَضَى اللّٰهُ وَرَسُوۡلُهٗۤ اَمۡرًا اَنۡ يَّكُوۡنَ لَهُمُ الۡخِيَرَةُ مِنۡ اَمۡرِهِمۡ ؕ وَمَنۡ يَّعۡصِ اللّٰهَ وَرَسُوۡلَهٗ فَقَدۡ ضَلَّ ضَلٰلًا مُّبِيۡنًا
It does not behove a believer, male or female, that when Allah and His Messenger have decided an affair they should exercise their choice. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger has strayed to manifest error.
sura ah zab 36

That is all I will say. In Islam, no one has a right to overrule Allah swt and his words in the Quran. This is how the people went astray from the past. So, in Islam, if Allah says something and they say otherwise, it's a lie-especially if it is proven authentic and that source is Allah himself.

Yes exactly, we shouldn't play games with Quran, but seek mental clarity from it's clear insights. Not make ambiguous interpretations nor pay attention to them.

 

[wandering peacefully]

This is a very fascinating thread. Thank you participants. It teaches so much about the different religions and how they all view each other. So many different beliefs all believing they and they alone, have the ultimate Truth. Even between their own religions.

This is a very informative discussion. My observation would probably end in believing none of them have THE Truth. And they most likely will never, ever live as "one" people under one faith no matter how many adherents claim.

 

[MyM]

Shias just means followers. Following Ahlulbayt (A) was the religion of Mohammad (S) from the start.

Wouldn't that mean Sunnah!?? The shia wasn't even invented nor did Mohammad pbuh utter it. Am just tryin to understand from the "shia" point of view why they turned shi'ee?

 

[Link]

Wouldn't that mean Sunnah!?? The shia wasn't even invented nor did Mohammad pbuh utter it. Am just tryin to understand from the "shia" point of view why they turned shi'ee?

The Quran for example to Musa (a) says "whoever follows you both (Musa and Haroun)...." Ali (a) was a miracle doer in battles and by which God helped believers a lot. He was like Haroun (a).

Bani-Israel can love Musa all they want, if they don't follow the successors of Musa (a) and Haroun (a) after, this not following either Musa (a) or Haroun (a). Thus rejecting one of the successors of Musa (a) is like rejecting Musa (a).

Also, it's Satanic snare on people, to disconnect a family of a Captain of a ship of salvation and make it all about him. For example, Jews overemphasize on Moses being better then all Prophets. Christians emphasize on Jesus and God making the religion complete with him and his sacrifice. However, to acknowledge Jesus while acknowledging his predecessors including Musa and Haroun would have made them recognize the position of light of Elyas (A) during the waiting period to Mohammad (a) and in that lied their salvation. Simon (a) is not chosen by God but he was to take outward leadership. Elyas (a) was to be the light. But they made it all about trinity and disconnected themselves from the handhold of God and worshiped Jesus. This is why I believe Quran emphasizes it's always with Twelve other Captains each Captain who is yes the name of God and the way to God, is to be recognized and seen as part of and to see him as an equal to his Ahlulbayt (a). And this includes the chosen ladies like Sarah (A) with Ibrahim's (a) Ahlulbayt (a) so as to inspire women as well.

The thing is to me, I see there is always an Ahlulbayt in all times. God doesn't want us to say for example Ibrahim is more important then Yusuf. Yusuf continues the mission of Ibrahim. Ibrahim didn't come to glorify himself but for people to submit to God.

Ahlulbayt of Ibrahim thus must be accepted in the creed of Abraham. The branches all accepted to the foundation of that blessed tree of light.

Mohammad (s) leadership was immense, and only reason tides changed, was due to his leadership. But this leadership is not meant to go away, and Ali (a) was to continue it, then Hassan (a), then Hussain (a).

The concept of an Ahlulbayt in all times is emphasized through out Quranic pages. I don't even know where to start with this, it's all over.

And 42:23 combined with 25:57 and seeing all the reward verses of the past Messengers and Mohammad (s), we see that loving Ahlulbayt (a) is for our sake and Mohammad (s) doesn't really seek a reward, but that which he is accused of from authority, leadership, control, fame, reputation, kingship, and monarchy in his family, all that can be said just to recognize and love Ahlulbayt (a) for who they are and whoever does goodness, God will appreciate it and increase us in it's beauty. And it's because it's the way God establishes his path. Mohammad (s) is not power hungry except he knows he is the path to God and wants people to be guided.

There are of course many ways to see Ahlulbayt (a) in Quran.

 

[MyM]

The Quran for example to Musa (a) says "whoever follows you both (Musa and Haroun)...." Ali (a) was a miracle doer in battles and by which God helped believers a lot. He was like Haroun (a).

Bani-Israel can love Musa all they want, f they don't follow the successors of Musa (a) and Haroun (a) after, this not following either Musa (a) or Haroun (a). Thus rejecting one of the successors of Musa (a) is like rejecting Musa (a).

Also, it's Satanic snare on people, to disconnect a family of a Captain of a ship of salvation and make it all about him. For example, Jews overemphasize on Moses being better then all Prophets. Christians emphasize on Jesus and God making the religion complete with him and his sacrifice.

The thing is to me, I see there is always an Ahlulbayt in all times. God doesn't want us to say for example Ibrahim is more important then Yusuf. Yusuf continues the mission of Ibrahim. Ibrahim didn't come to glorify himself but for people to submit to God.

Ahlulbayt of Ibrahim thus must be accepted in the creed of Abraham. The branches all accepted to the foundation of that blessed tree of light.

Mohammad (s) leadership was immense, and only reason tides changed, was due to his leadership. But this leadership is not meant to go away, and Ali (a) was to continue it, then Hassan (a), then Hussain (a).

The concept of an Ahlulbayt in all times is emphasized through out Quranic pages. I don't even know where to start with this, it's all over.

And 42:23 combined with 25:57 and seeing all the reward verses of the past Messengers and Mohammad (s), we see that loving Ahlulbayt (a) is for our sake and Mohammad (s) doesn't really seek a reward, but that which he is accused of from authority, leadership, control, fame, reputation, kingship, and monarchy in his family, all that can be said just to recognize and love Ahlulbayt (a) for who they are and whoever does goodness, God will appreciate it and increase us in it's beauty. And it's because it's the way God establishes his path. Mohammad (s) is not power hungry except he knows he is the path to God and wants people to be guided.

There are of course many ways to see Ahlulbayt (a) in Quran.

The fact is, if they were to be the successors, Allah would have made it so. Ali on him peace, yes, was a fierce fighter, but so was Khalid bin alWalid, Umar raa, also Hamza (his uncle-lion of the desert) and many many more that were given exceptional titles in Islam. I don't understand why they are displeased that Ali wasn't. Doesn't make sense. It's like they are blaming Allah because Ali wasn't after Mohammad pbuh.

 

[Link]

The fact is, if they were to be the successors, Allah would have made it so.

Then why was Yahya (a) killed? He was a successor of Musa (a) but not recognized.

 

[Link]

You are right God could have made sure of it. He has all power, but he could've forced everyone to obey Haroun (a) and not the Samiri as well.

 

[MyM]

Then why was Yahya (a) killed? He was a successor of Musa (a) but not recognized.

We are blaming who ? Isn't Allah the best judge of all affairs?

 

[MyM]

You are right God could have made sure of it. He has all power, but he could've forced everyone to obey Haroun (a) and not the Samiri as well.

Point is, the past is done and over with. Maktoob. So, we know Allah is the one who is the best judge of affairs.

 

[Link]

We are blaming who ? Isn't Allah the best judge of all affairs?

Founders like Musa (a), Ibrahim (a), Mohammad (s), they are helped in a way to guarantee success. They will not be killed and not defeated though their death should not be an issue because they have successors, they are guaranteed success, even if it results of the destruction of their enemies by God.

After, them, their successors like Haroun (a), Samuel (a), they may face ignorance of people or people may follow them. It's up to the people to decide.

The Mahdi is said to be Mansur (helped) of Ahlulbayt (a) and is guaranteed victory, whether this is by people accepting him (good results) or the warnings come about (most cities destroyed by rejecting him) he will be victorious.

The problem with sending victorious type, is that often, like Nuh (a), it leads to destruction of a lot of people.

Allah (swt) wanted people to accept his Prophets and prepare for Mohammad (s).

Mohammad (s) wanted people to hold on to Quran and his family, and follow Ali (a) so to prepare the world for the final successor of Mohammad (s), the Mahdi.

The ghayba was a conditional prophecy, a warning in the Quran. Quran says "nothing prevented us from sending with the signs except the former people rejected them...", meaning miracles are meant to stay with humans, but humans deny them, and make things difficult and so God if the first generations reject, decides not to send with them.

What has happened to Ahlulbaty (a) cannot be changed now, but we have to try to learn from the past, so to avoid the warnings regarding the Mahdi. To save the world from the destruction they are heading towards which only God can save us from and which we have to pray and try to help God's plan as as to avoid the Haqah and catastrophe spoken about in the Quran.

 

[Link]

Point is, the past is done and over with. Maktoob. So, we know Allah is the one who is the best judge of affairs.

But the past makes us know where we are heading towards in terms of God's warnings. This is why Bani-Israel is rehearsed their past, so they know where they went wrong and so that Muslims would know how to avoid where they went wrong. We didn't avoid his warnings and so the warnings towards the Mahdi are severe now. If people oppress believers, they will force God's hands.

 

[MyM]

Founders like Musa (a), Ibrahim (a), Mohammad (s), they are helped in a way to guarantee success. They will not be killed and not defeated, even if it results of the destruction of their enemies by God.

After, them, their successors like Haroun (a), Samuel (a), they may face ignorance of people or people may follow them. It's up to the people to decide.

The Mahdi is said to be Mansur (helped) of Ahlulbayt (a) and is guaranteed victory, whether this is by people accepting him (good results) or the warnings come about (most cities destroyed by rejecting him) he will be victorious.

The problem with sending victorious type, is that often, like Nuh (a), it leads to destruction of a lot of people.

Allah (swt) wanted people to accept his Prophets and prepare for Mohammad (s).

Mohammad (s) wanted people to hold on to Quran and his family, and follow Ali (a) so to prepare the world for the final successor of Mohammad (s), the Mahdi.

The ghayba was a conditional prophecy, a warning in the Quran. Quran says "nothing prevented us from sending with the signs except the former people rejected them...", meaning miracles are meant to stay with humans, but humans deny them, and make things difficult and so God if the first generations reject, decides not to send with them.

What has happened to Ahlulbaty (a) cannot be changed now, but we have to try to learn from the past, so to avoid the warnings regarding the Mahdi. To save the world from the destruction they are heading towards which only God can save us from and which we have to pray and try to help God's plan as as to avoid the Haqah and catastrophe spoken about in the Quran.

I still don't understand a lot about shi'sm but I can understand that if Allah wishes for something to happen it will happen and the past happened

We are not to get upset and beat ourselves over it and be displeased with the outcome and point fingers and blame. Just not good to do