Which is better designed, the brain or the computer ?

[FearGod]

The brain seems more complex to me. For instance, it appears to be the brain of a reptile overlaid by the brain of a mammal, overlaid by the brain of a primate. That is, there is an older part of it that resembles the brains of reptiles. A somewhat newer part that resembles the brains of lower-order mammals. And an even newer part that resembles the brains of higher-order primates.

Do you think humans will be able to invent a conscious brain at one day ?

 

[Sunstone]

Do you think humans will be able to invent a conscious brain at one day ?

I have a friend, a computer scientist, whose field is artificial intelligence. I think he would say that will eventually be possible.

 

[FearGod]

I have a friend, a computer scientist, whose field is artificial intelligence. I think he would say that will eventually be possible.

Do you think they need some researches and studies in order to do it or it can be achieved without the need to think about it?

 

[Parsimony]

Which is better designed? The waffle iron or the cantaloupe?

A very good analogy, actually.

I'm suspicious about the goal of this thread. I wonder if it will go somewhere along the lines of "if the human brain is superior to a computer, and a computer has to be designed by intelligence, then the human brain must have been designed by intelligence too".

 

[Sunstone]

Do you think they need some researches and studies in order to do it or it can be achieved without the need to think about it?

For humans to create a conscious machine would require quite a mental effort, but -- fortunately of us -- evolution does not require a mental effort.

 

[suncowiam]

AI is not so far away. The processing power of the latest super computer combined with the advancement off mass storage and algorithms will probably bring forth an early stage of AI within the decade.

There's a new technology called deep learning that is sweeping silicon valley and its venture capitalists.

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

Loaded question much? Which is more pitifully ignorant, belief in god or belief in scripture? Why do people believe in their false religions? Why do all liberals love to abort fetuses? Why are all conservatives ignorant rednecks? I think you get the idea.

The computer can't work without a program whereas the brain work without a fixed programs

I haven't read the thread, so I'm sure somebody has already said this and said it better, but
1) Computers are infinitely better designed, as they were actually designed. Roach motels are better designed to, in case you were interested.
2) The computer is fantastic at what it was designed to do. We're so used to referring to it as a computer we may forget that the name wasn't picked out of thin air. Computers compute. They're giant calculators. And if you ever take a linear algebra class or some class with the word "computation(al)" in it (computational biology, computational neuroscience, computational systems science, engineering & computation, etc.), while you may or may not find difficult the conceptual aspects of linear algebra or linear algebra with the power of calculus, often enough the computations are very easy (especially in straightforward linear algebra, where a lot of it is simple arithmetic). This is not because such courses are to train you to be able to do more complicated computations with matrices or linear transformations or whatever. It's because of sheer enormity of the computations required for simple operations, e.g., finding the determinant of a 10x10 matrix or using Riemann sums to compute integrals in 9th-dimensional (even 4th dimensional) space (actually, integrals that come in quantum and statistical mechanics can be in spaces larger than 20D, at which point we are often unable to figure out how to evaluate such integrals even via numerical methods, let alone develop efficient algorithms). So computers are vastly superior to brains when in comes to precision, computational capabilities, speed, etc.

Humans have concepts.

,IOW the computer doesn't have a free will.

Nor does it care.

Now do you think the human's brain was better designed than the computer or the contrary is correct ?

I'm going to go with loaded question for $500, Alex.

 

[Bunyip]

What strikes me is that the brain is clearly vastly superior, but was not designed - it evolved. The computer was designed and is nowhere near as complex and efficient.

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

For humans to create a conscious machine would require quite a mental effort, but -- fortunately of us -- evolution does not require a mental effort.

I just thought of evolution not requiring mental effort in the context of intelligent design and for some reason I found it extremely amusing.

ID: "Look around you! Can't you see the evidence of design everywhere? Evolution couldn't do that, it requires a designer"

Other: "Um, but aren't evolutionary processes mostly competitive such that something like over 95% of all species that ever lived are extinct, there have been several mass extinctions, and in the 100,000+ years before agriculture, when humanswere little better of then apes, was it design that made the big difference we see now or because some people finally figured out how to grow food?"

ID: "Yeah, well, ok, but it was an intelligent designer:we just weren't worth the mental effort, so some of the design was off."

Other: "Ah. Well at least the designer did a good job ensuring viruses could spread rapidly and mutate (and roaches will be around for a while)."

 

[suncowiam]

What strikes me is that the brain is clearly vastly superior, but was not designed - it evolved. The computer was designed and is nowhere near as complex and efficient.

I agree mostly except computers in nominal condition are much more efficient.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Do you think they need some researches and studies in order to do it or it can be achieved without the need to think about it?

So... you're saying that the designer of a computer requires a designer himself. How about the designer of the designer? If people need a designer, does your god need one as well?

 

[Ouroboros]

One important thing to remember is that complexity is no good indicator of design. A design can be simple, yet be designed. A patter in marble can be complex, yet it's a result of physical and natural processes.

I suspect (don't know if anyone has proved it mathematically or such) that outcomes from evolutionary processes are expected to be more complex. For instance, there are redundancy in our genes, cell functions, immune system, and even brain functions, that wouldn't have to be there if they were designed with intent. Most of these redundant systems can be traced to evolutionary history, by finding them in corresponding organisms. In essence, we should expect the evolutionary brain to be overly complex. If it was simple, and still doing the same job, then we would have to start suspect design with intent, but that's not the case.

 

[FearGod]

For humans to create a conscious machine would require quite a mental effort, but -- fortunately of us -- evolution does not require a mental effort.

Do you think the brain's complexity doesn't need any plan or design but the computers needed plans and design ?

Each system in our body is working in harmony with the other, the brain won't work if there is no blood, and the blood should carry oxygen and nutrients to every part of our body, the Oxygen is prepared by the lungs whereas nutrients and water are prepared by the gastrointestinal system.

If the body wasn't designed to do so, then would you call it a coincidence or the work of luck.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

So... you think that the form of our bodies was deliberately designed by God?

For instance, you think that God deliberately decided that we should grow more teeth than the adult mouth can hold? You think that of all the possible ways he could have delivered food and oxygen to the body, he said "I'll make humans use the same tube to both breathe and eat, so that a person who isn't careful while eating will suffocate"? You think that God said "no, I won't have humans make their own vitamin C like many other animals; instead, I'll make it so they get scurvy if they don't take in enough vitamin C in their diet"?

 

[Nietzsche]

The computer can't work without a program whereas the brain work without a fixed programs,IOW the computer doesn't have a free will.

Now do you think the human's brain was better designed than the computer or the contrary is correct ?

Would you like to compare apples to oranges as well? The brain is not a computer. It has similar functions, but the brain is a far more general device.

 

[Nietzsche]

So... you think that the form of our bodies was deliberately designed by God?

For instance, you think that God deliberately decided that we should grow more teeth than the adult mouth can hold? You think that of all the possible ways he could have delivered food and oxygen to the body, he said "I'll make humans use the same tube to both breathe and eat, so that a person who isn't careful while eating will suffocate"? You think that God said "no, I won't have humans make their own vitamin C like many other animals; instead, I'll make it so they get scurvy if they don't take in enough vitamin C in their diet"?

Don't forget being the only animal to get brain cancer.

 

[FearGod]

So... you're saying that the designer of a computer requires a designer himself. How about the designer of the designer? If people need a designer, does your god need one as well?

Don't you think that at the end there should be a starter, the starting point.

If nothing started anything, then how matter and life existed at the first place.

 

[FearGod]

So... you think that the form of our bodies was deliberately designed by God?

For instance, you think that God deliberately decided that we should grow more teeth than the adult mouth can hold? You think that of all the possible ways he could have delivered food and oxygen to the body, he said "I'll make humans use the same tube to both breathe and eat, so that a person who isn't careful while eating will suffocate"? You think that God said "no, I won't have humans make their own vitamin C like many other animals; instead, I'll make it so they get scurvy if they don't take in enough vitamin C in their diet"?

I don't see any problem with such design, i eat and breath comfortably and i never had scurvy and if you believe about natural selection then we should gone extinct by such faults.

 

[leibowde84]

The computer can't work without a program whereas the brain work without a fixed programs,IOW the computer doesn't have a free will.

Now do you think the human's brain was better designed than the computer or the contrary is correct ?

Uhh ... the human brain designed the computer, so wouldn't one assum that the former would be "better designed?" Although, I'm not sure whether "designed" is the best word, as we do not know difinitively whether that is the case. It certainly has developed quite a bit on its own since the dawning of man.

 

[leibowde84]

Do you think the undesigned brain is better than the computer or the contrary is correct ?

I don't think it is a rational question. I guess you should probaly ask, "which is a more impressive system, the brain or the computer."