Which One do you think is more faithful and loyal ?

[Sabour]

Well, ok, you are redefining the meaning of a religious person for me. I know it is a bit tired, but I am sure that the anti-abortionists murderers; jihadists; gay bashers; etc; etc all believe they are good religious people and will get their reward in heaven (or wherever they believe they are heading).

What I am saying is, take the religious justification/reward away and would they still carry out the crime? Some maybe, but without the promise of 72 virgins it wouldn't seem as attractive.

Well in that case I hope you listen to this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoIgrhQD5xU

If you have a problem with me answering by a video tell me.

 

[Altfish]

Well first Thank you Altfish for approaching the subject in such a manner. I am used to being attacked lol. Anyways here is my answer.



What is meant by confession? I didn't understand?

Repentance grants us forgiveness.

But what is the meaning to repent?

1-To be true about it.
2- Stop doing it again.
3- You have to regret it. Like you don't say I used to steal ,,,, wow they were good old days. You have to regret doing it.
4- Decide not to go back to the same sin in the future
5- If you can return the rights to people you have done damage do, you should

So it is not like okay let us do this and that and than we will repent. God know what is inside of us. For example, if you give money for the poor to be viewed a good person this won't be accepted. So things don't go in the way you describe.




I am a believer and I have the same reasons plus, but not all people have that mentality. Some do need to know that punishment exists so they would stay out of trouble.

Well okay first in our five pillars of Islam, there is "Zakat" which is money we must give to the poor in case our salary was more than a certain away. The rate is 2.5 %. There is Fasting Ramadan also which its main purpose is to remember the poor.

Now let us take a look at some verses in the Quraan.

60:8 Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly.

41:34-36

34 And not equal are the good deed and the bad. Repel [evil] by that [deed] which is better; and thereupon the one whom between you and him is enmity [will become] as though he was a devoted friend.

35 But none is granted it except those who are patient, and none is granted it except one having a great portion [of good].

36 And if there comes to you from Satan an evil suggestion, then seek refuge in Allah . Indeed, He is the Hearing, the Knowing.

6:108 And do not insult those they invoke other than Allah , lest they insult Allah in enmity without knowledge. Thus We have made pleasing to every community their deeds. Then to their Lord is their return, and He will inform them about what they used to do.

5:8 O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm for Allah , witnesses in justice, and do not let the hatred of a people prevent you from being just. Be just; that is nearer to righteousness. And fear Allah ; indeed, Allah is Acquainted with what you do.

I meant by confession the process that Catholics (for one) go through, repent your sins to a Priest, say 100 Hail Marys and don't do it again - God will then accept you as cleansed. Your religion obviously doesn't have this facility.

I do not dispute that the vast majority of religious people are mainly good people (as I would argue so too are the vast majority of non-believers) but would the religious people all still be good if they were not going to get a reward in the after-life?

I give money to many charities (non-religious ones I hasten to add ), it is through choice, not because I am 'taxed' to do so.

I could quote you many passages from the Quraan and the associated writings that are far from peaceful; the quotes I'm afraid do not impress me.

Being at work, soon going home!!, I can't watch the video, but I will try to watch it, maybe tonight. I also cannot post your links because I haven't done enough posts, so I have deleted them from your original post which I have quoted

 

[Badran]

There are two kind of persons.

1st: The one who believe in the existence of God
2nd: Who Doesn't believe in the existence of God.

Which One do you think is more faithful and loyal towards others and why ?

Usually to answer a question i need relevant info.

You've offered none relating to yours.

 

[Badran]

If the person has no intention to do good, believing that God exists would prevent him from doing bad things towards people for his knowledge that God exists and he will be accountable for all his actions.

That's called fear, or self-interest. Not loyalty.

If the person has the intention to do good, believing that God exists would take this intention to a much higher level because he knows that he would be rewarded for every single good deed he goes.

Again, self-interest. What you propose as a higher level of doing good is just increased motivation, and it doesn't relate to loyalty.

Let's not forget that all religions are about peace and loving each other.

So believing in God brings out the best of us, no matter who we are.

People don't all actually agree with that, so it's not as obvious as you think.

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

There are two kind of persons.

1st: The one who believe in the existence of God
2nd: Who Doesn't believe in the existence of God.

Which One do you think is more faithful and loyal towards others and why ?

3rd: The one who acknowledges that God can neither be proven nor disproven, but makes their decision based upon evidence they find supporting one or the other. (Regardless of what conclusion they come to.)

 

[Nymphs]

I don't think one's Theism or lack thereof affects whether or not one is faithful or loyal.

^This.

 

[Sabour]

I meant by confession the process that Catholics (for one) go through, repent your sins to a Priest, say 100 Hail Marys and don't do it again - God will then accept you as cleansed. Your religion obviously doesn't have this facility.

We ask God directly we don't go through anyone. We can pray to God any time. I have also introduce to you what repentance really means. It is not like okay I will do that now and as God to forgive me later. Things don't work that way.

I do not dispute that the vast majority of religious people are mainly good people (as I would argue so too are the vast majority of non-believers) but would the religious people all still be good if they were not going to get a reward in the after-life?

Some do, some don't. But religion isn't just about that. I agree on the statement you don't need to belong to a religion to be good. But as I said, being a true follower of Islam brings the best out of you in this aspect.

I give money to many charities (non-religious ones I hasten to add ), it is through choice, not because I am 'taxed' to do so.

We can also do that. But in Islam if you don't want to give money ... Well sorry than you must... that is of course, one cares to be a muslim. It is a duty to look towards the poor in Islam. You can still do the charity work all you like.

I could quote you many passages from the Quraan and the associated writings that are far from peaceful; the quotes I'm afraid do not impress me.

Well I would happy to address them, but I don't think it will be appropriate to do so in this thread. If you are really interested, I'm in. Just create a thread if you like. But problem is, many haters will come and start throwing attacks just to attack, as they always do. In that case, address me with what really is of a concern, and I would be more than happy to reply

Being at work, soon going home!!, I can't watch the video, but I will try to watch it, maybe tonight. I also cannot post your links because I haven't done enough posts, so I have deleted them from your original post which I have quoted

No problem at all

 

[Nakosis]

Neither, Either, Both.

I don't think one's Theism or lack thereof affects whether or not one is faithful or loyal.

Yes, I'd agree.

There are many other factors involved in the construct of an individual personality.

Humans are very complex. There's no simple single cause for a person's behavior.

 

[Sabour]

That's called fear, or self-interest. Not loyalty.



Again, self-interest. What you propose as a higher level of doing good is just increased motivation, and it doesn't relate to loyalty.

They way you are approaching this means that there is not relation between loyalty and belief in God, right?

People don't all actually agree with that, so it's not as obvious as you think.

What are the variables in place that don't make all agree on that?

 

[Ingledsva]

Even if, suppose you are an employer and you have to choose from two such kind of your employees to tell some of your company secrets ?

This idea that people whom don't believe in a God are somehow more evil, or lacking morals, is outdated, ridiculous, and insulting.


Multiple studies have been done over the years showing that religious people commit as much crime as the non-religious.


"A growing body of social science research reveals that atheists, and non-religious people in general, are far from the unsavory beings many assume them to be. On basic questions of morality and human decency— issues such as governmental use of torture, the death penalty, punitive hitting of children, racism, sexism, homophobia, anti-Semitism, environmental degradation or human rights — the irreligious tend to be more ethical than their religious peers, particularly compared with those who describe themselves as very religious." - USC's RD Magazine



*

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Trick question: they both believe in God.

What do I win, chinu?

 

[LuisDantas]

How does people like stalin, the crooked leaders of non religious countries, such as N Korea and China, and sicko's like Jeffery Dalhmer that said he did what he did because there was no god to hold him accountable, and many of the guards who tortured Jews, that also said there was no God to hold them accountable either, fit into that sort of logic you are suggesting?

Are you sure they even exist? I have never met one, nor do I find it very likely that they are around.

 

[LuisDantas]

The exact same thing can be said for non-believers too.
:yes:

I suppose. Do you think it can be truthfully said?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Which one is nicer: The one who likes basketball or the one who likes football?

 

[Badran]

They way you are approaching this means that there is not relation between loyalty and belief in God, right?

No relation between belief in god and loyalty to others, yeah. In my view.

What are the variables in place that don't make all agree on that?

Whether or not all religions are about peace and love and whether or not belief in god is beneficial and brings out the best in people.

I don't know how else to put it. May be if you rephrase the question.

 

[George-ananda]

There are two kind of persons.

1st: The one who believe in the existence of God
2nd: Who Doesn't believe in the existence of God.

Which One do you think is more faithful and loyal towards others and why ?

Us theists are more respectable. Atheists even lie about the existence of God.

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

Us theists are more respectable. Atheists even lie about the existence of God.

How do we know it's not the theists that are lying about the existence of God?

 

[kashmir]

How do we know it's not the theists that are lying about the existence of God?

You dont know?
atheists are always right, they are the only smart ones in the world, the religious people are so retarded that they play with their own drool.

"bleee blee bleee, err durrrr, which way did he go, I will name him george and love him and squeeze him and hug him forever"

 

[Vinayaka]

There are two kind of persons.

1st: The one who believe in the existence of God
2nd: Who Doesn't believe in the existence of God.

Which One do you think is more faithful and loyal towards others and why ?

Religious belief isn't related to loyalty towards others.

 

[LuisDantas]

Religious belief isn't related to loyalty towards others.

Isn't it supposed to?