Which text from the Christian Bible uniquely proves that Jesus is Almighty God?

[JerryMyers]

It's VERY clear -- if it's not taken out of context.

John 17:1-5 [with my emphasis added], "When Jesus had finished saying these things, he looked upward to heaven[b] and said, “Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, so that your Son may glorify you -- just as you have given him authority over all humanity, so that he may give eternal life to everyone you have given him. [If He were not God, clearly He could not do that!!!] Now this is eternal life—that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you sent. I glorified you on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. And now, Father, glorify me at your side with the glory I had with you before the world was created."

Any literate person can see, unmistakably, that Jesus was God, came to earth for a few years as a human, and returned to His divine status. Notice that Jesus may give eternal life to everyone He was given. Only God can give eternal life!

I guess that you are unable to believe what the Bible clearly says. I am guessing that is because your mind is closed.

So, John 17:1-5 is ‘proof’ that Jesus is God?? LOL

Let me guess, ‘Jesus is God’ because God gave Jesus all authority over humanity?? So, what authority did God give Jesus?

Try to read that passage in its proper context. The authority that God gave Jesus is NOT the authority to take over God’s role as the only true Savior and Supreme Being, the authority given to Jesus is the authority to carry and convey God’s Message to the people of his time. Likewise, if you want to speak on behalf of your company, you need authority from your company management to do so, and that’s why the immediate sentence following that is ‘so that he may give eternal life to everyone….’. Eternal life here is a reference to the eternal life in the kingdom of heaven. How did Jesus give eternal life to the kingdom of heaven? He gave eternal life to the people through his preaching and teachings. His knowledge of what to preach came from God Almighty, in other words, listening to Jesus’ words is akin to listening to God… and that’s why Jesus said, “whoever hears my word and believes Him who sent me has eternal life” – John 5:24.

So, tell me, how can Jesus be God if he asked his people to listen to his words and BELIEVE THE GOD who sent Jesus??? Surely you cannot be that ‘mentally-challenge’ to think Jesus was asking the people to hear his words and believe that he sent himself, do you??!!! Hmmm..

I guess that you are unable to believe what the Bible clearly says. I am guessing that is because your mind is closed.

 

[JerryMyers]

If you can't write anything useful or at least of interest, why write at all?

And your ad hominem insult says a lot about who you are.

If you can't respond with anything of substance, why respond at all??

 

[Betho_br]

There aren't any. The text of the bible is full of CLAIMS... claims are not proof. That's like asking what text in the Harry Potter novels proves that Harry is a wizard. NONE of the text proves such a thing... it simply claims that such a thing is true on numerous occasions.

If we consider the Bible as a secular literary work, your comment is indeed correct, and I have no issues with that.

 

[QuestioningMind]

If we consider the Bible as a secular literary work, your comment is indeed correct, and I have no issues with that.

What verifiable evidence do we have that we should consider it anything other than a secular literary work?

 

[Betho_br]

What verifiable evidence do we have that we should consider it anything other than a secular literary work?

None. But I am certain of several divine laws.

Isaiah 45:15 KJV
Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.

Psalm 10:4 KJV
The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts.

 

[QuestioningMind]

None. But I am certain of several divine laws.

Isaiah 45:15 KJV
Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.

Psalm 10:4 KJV
The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts.

You're certain of several divine laws... without any verifiable evidence. That seems like an extremely low standard for certainty. I have a high degree of confidence in many things, but I require solid verifiable evidence to declare I know something for certain. People who are certain about claims without good evidence are apt to do some very foolish and dangerous things. Things like... fly airplanes into buildings filled with innocent people, all because they were certain that's what some god being wanted them to do. Too bad they didn't have a higher standard for their certainly. Then they would have demanded verifiable evidence that there really was a god being that wanted them to kill people. I seriously doubt they would have ever found any.

 

[Betho_br]

You're certain of several divine laws... without any verifiable evidence. That seems like an extremely low standard for certainty. I have a high degree of confidence in many things, but I require solid verifiable evidence to declare I know something for certain. People who are certain about claims without good evidence are apt to do some very foolish and dangerous things. Things like... fly airplanes into buildings filled with innocent people, all because they were certain that's what some god being wanted them to do. Too bad they didn't have a higher standard for their certainly. Then they would have demanded verifiable evidence that there really was a god being that wanted them to kill people. I seriously doubt they would have ever found any.

The evidence exists; I simply chose not to provide it to you.

 

[QuestioningMind]

The evidence exists; I simply chose not to provide it to you.

I said: What verifiable evidence do we have that we should consider it anything other than a secular literary work?
You responded: None. But I am certain of several divine laws.

You didn't say there was verifiable evidence, but you just weren't going to provide it to me. You said there was NONE. And the fact that you're now saying that you choose not to provide it, suggests that you were telling the truth the first time... there is no good verifiable evidence that the bible is anything other than a secular literary work.

 

[jimb]

So God, the only true God Jesus spoke about, gave Jesus authority over all humanity. How interesting.

Yes, this situation is very interesting, as is the entire Bible, a.k.a., God's word.

 

[jimb]

"When Jesus had finished saying these things, he looked upward to heaven[b] and said, “Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, so that your Son may glorify you''

i have to wonder why it is when Jesus is speaking calling out to his God that you can then turn it around to make Jesus the father and God. he was not talking to himself was he ?
you said something about Any literate person.

A literate person would see that nowhere in the Bible does it say that Jesus is the Father. What it does say is that, except for the few years when He was fully human, Jesus has always been God.

Granted, understanding the Trinity, Jesus becoming a human then regaining His God status, His sacrifice that has paid the price for ALL sin, and other truths, is not easy. God grants understanding to those who ask him sincerely to teach them His truths.

 

[jimb]

So, John 17:1-5 is ‘proof’ that Jesus is God?? LOL

Let me guess, ‘Jesus is God’ because God gave Jesus all authority over humanity?? So, what authority did God give Jesus?

Try to read that passage in its proper context. The authority that God gave Jesus is NOT the authority to take over God’s role as the only true Savior and Supreme Being, the authority given to Jesus is the authority to carry and convey God’s Message to the people of his time. Likewise, if you want to speak on behalf of your company, you need authority from your company management to do so, and that’s why the immediate sentence following that is ‘so that he may give eternal life to everyone….’. Eternal life here is a reference to the eternal life in the kingdom of heaven. How did Jesus give eternal life to the kingdom of heaven? He gave eternal life to the people through his preaching and teachings. His knowledge of what to preach came from God Almighty, in other words, listening to Jesus’ words is akin to listening to God… and that’s why Jesus said, “whoever hears my word and believes Him who sent me has eternal life” – John 5:24.

So, tell me, how can Jesus be God if he asked his people to listen to his words and BELIEVE THE GOD who sent Jesus??? Surely you cannot be that ‘mentally-challenge’ to think Jesus was asking the people to hear his words and believe that he sent himself, do you??!!! Hmmm..

I guess that you are unable to believe what the Bible clearly says. I am guessing that is because your mind is closed.

You are totally wrong about my mind being closed. It's just the opposite. I, unlike yourself, am OPEN to being taught by God.

If you understood what God spoke through the Apostle John, you wouldn't make such false statements. John 17:2-5 contains these truths...

God gave Jesus, as man, authority over all humanity so that He (Jesus) could give eternal life to those God had given Him. ONLY GOD CAN GIVE ETERNAL LIFE. No human being can do that.

There are many people who preach and teach today, and have done so throughout history, but NONE of them could give eternal life. ONLY GOD CAN DO THAT.

P.S. I am not "mentally challenge" [sic]. I am extremely intelligent (in the 99th percentile), very literate, have extensive knowledge of the Bible, and am a "born-again" Christian who knows the triune God and who is known by the triune God.

Therefore, your nonsense and personal insults make no sense and have no effect (except to reveal who you really are).

 

[jimb]

If you can't respond with anything of substance, why respond at all??

They're not "of substance" to you, which says more about you than it does about me.

 

[jimb]

I said: What verifiable evidence do we have that we should consider it anything other than a secular literary work?
You responded: None. But I am certain of several divine laws.

You didn't say there was verifiable evidence, but you just weren't going to provide it to me. You said there was NONE. And the fact that you're now saying that you choose not to provide it, suggests that you were telling the truth the first time... there is no good verifiable evidence that the bible is anything other than a secular literary work.

Your forum identity is "questioning mind". Why don't you exhibit the behavior that goes with that description?

"there is no good verifiable evidence..." suggests just the opposite.

The Bible has been considered to be "the word of God" for thousands of years by billions of people. The Apostle Paul, personally commissioned by Jesus Christ, wrote to Timothy that "all Scripture is God-breathed...", (2 Timothy 3;16) so why should anyone believe you instead of Paul? The Bible IS the Word of God.

I have read many a nonsensical statement on this forum and others, but "there is no good verifiable evidence that the bible [lowercase!] is anything other than a secular literary work" ranks at the top.

 

[mangalavara]

So, tell me, how can Jesus be God if he asked his people to listen to his words and BELIEVE THE GOD who sent Jesus??? Surely you cannot be that ‘mentally-challenge’ to think Jesus was asking the people to hear his words and believe that he sent himself, do you??!!! Hmmm..

I know that you wrote this to @jimb, but I feel that I should reply to you about what you have written above.

First, calling @jimb ‘mentally-challenge’ because you do not understand his belief about Jesus is extremely low of you. Also, calling somebody ‘mentally-challenge’ or ‘mentally challenged’ is not only an insult to that person but also to individuals who really do have learning disabilities. Having a learning disability is not very easy for children who have them nor it is very easy for their parents.

Second, jimb, to the best of my knowledge, has not written anything stating that Jesus sent himself. (Never have I heard any other Trinitarian for that matter say that Jesus sent himself. It is always something like ‘His Father sent him.’) On the other hand, I have observed here and elsewhere that many non-Trinitarians who demonstrate that they don’t actually understand Trinitarianism like to say weird things such as, ‘You (Trinitarians) make Jesus into God the Father.’ It is actually Modalists who believe that Jesus was not only the Son but also the Father and the Spirit. Modalism, by the way, was formally condemned as heresy by Trinitarian bishops very long ago.

 

[cataway]

I know that you wrote this to @jimb, but I feel that I should reply to you about what you have written above.

First, calling @jimb ‘mentally-challenge’ because you do not understand his belief about Jesus is extremely low of you. Also, calling somebody ‘mentally-challenge’ or ‘mentally challenged’ is not only an insult to that person but also to individuals who really do have learning disabilities. Having a learning disability is not very easy for children who have them nor it is very easy for their parents.

Second, jimb, to the best of my knowledge, has not written anything stating that Jesus sent himself. (Never have I heard any other Trinitarian for that matter say that Jesus sent himself. It is always something like ‘His Father sent him.’) On the other hand, I have observed here and elsewhere that many non-Trinitarians who demonstrate that they don’t actually understand Trinitarianism like to say weird things such as, ‘You (Trinitarians) make Jesus into God the Father.’ It is actually Modalists who believe that Jesus was not only the Son but also the Father and the Spirit. Modalism, by the way, was formally condemned as heresy by Trinitarian bishops very long ago.

the father could only ''send'' Jesus if the father , had authority over him . it has been stated over and over again that the father ,son and holy spirit are equal in every way. what can equals do if even one of them wants something different ? it would be a stalemate. which means they also cannot do something/anything without getting the ok from the other two .

 

[amazing grace]

You are totally wrong about my mind being closed. It's just the opposite. I, unlike yourself, am OPEN to being taught by God.

If you understood what God spoke through the Apostle John, you wouldn't make such false statements. John 17:2-5 contains these truths...

God gave Jesus, as man, authority over all humanity so that He (Jesus) could give eternal life to those God had given Him. ONLY GOD CAN GIVE ETERNAL LIFE. No human being can do that.

There are many people who preach and teach today, and have done so throughout history, but NONE of them could give eternal life. ONLY GOD CAN DO THAT.

P.S. I am not "mentally challenge" [sic]. I am extremely intelligent (in the 99th percentile), very literate, have extensive knowledge of the Bible, and am a "born-again" Christian who knows the triune God and who is known by the triune God.

Therefore, your nonsense and personal insults make no sense and have no effect (except to reveal who you really are).

Where does scripture say, "ONLY GOD CAN GIVE ETERNAL LIFE"?

John 17:1 Jesus is praying to the Father - "the hour has come; glorify your Son that the Son may glorify you." This is said before Jesus' crucifixion and Jesus is asking his Father to glorify him.
In v. 2 scripture tells us that Jesus was given authority to give eternal life and then in v.3 Jesus claims that his Father is the ONLY TRUE God and that knowing this is eternal life.

Now as we read on, are we expected to believe that Jesus (the Messiah) once had glory, he gave up that glory and was given that glory back? Verse 5 is speaking of the exaltation and glory of the Messiah as predicted in the OT and is presented as Jesus having the "glory before the world existed". Jesus used the past tense because he knew that God had promised the glory he was to be given. In Biblical language predestined things are spoken of as already existing because they are "as good as done" in God's eyes. His glory was not literally given until his death, resurrection and exaltation to the right hand of Almighty God.

Also, further on in this chapter Jesus again uses the language of "giving glory" and "having glory" before literal existence.
John 17:20-22 "I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, that they may all be one, just as you Father are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one." Here Jesus is giving his glory, the glory that is going to be given to him upon his exaltation to God's right hand to all those who will believe in the future, but it is spoken of as already given.

 

[mangalavara]

the father could only ''send'' Jesus if the father , had authority over him .

Trinitarians do not deny that the Father had authority over Jesus.

it has been stated over and over again that the father ,son and holy spirit are equal in every way.

In post #111, I had explained that Eastern Trinitarian theology is a little different from Western Trinitarian theology. Western Trinitarian theology includes the view that the three persons are equals and that no person is ‘before’ or ‘after’ any other person, as taught in the so-called Athanasian Creed. On the other hand, Eastern Trinitarian theology affirms that among the three persons, the Father has the primacy. He has the primacy because he begat the Son and breathed out the Spirit. Therefore, in Eastern Trinitarianism, the three persons are not absolute equals. The Son and the Spirit have the same essence as the Father, but the Father is greater than them with respect to their relations to him. The Eastern theological view is the theological view that I have been arguing from. Please try to understand that Western Trinitarian theology is not the theology of all Trinitarian Christianity.

what can equals do if even one of them wants something different ? it would be a stalemate. which means they also cannot do something/anything without getting the ok from the other two .

That would be the case with finite beings who recognize each other as equals.

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes, this situation is very interesting, as is the entire Bible, a.k.a., God's word.

Jesus did not take authority on himself.

 

[YoursTrue]

Trinitarians do not deny that the Father had authority over Jesus.



In post #111, I had explained that Eastern Trinitarian theology is a little different from Western Trinitarian theology. Western Trinitarian theology includes the view that the three persons are equals and that no person is ‘before’ or ‘after’ any other person, as taught in the so-called Athanasian Creed. On the other hand, Eastern Trinitarian theology affirms that among the three persons, the Father has the primacy. He has the primacy because he begat the Son and breathed out the Spirit. Therefore, in Eastern Trinitarianism, the three persons are not absolute equals. The Son and the Spirit have the same essence as the Father, but the Father is greater than them with respect to their relations to him. The Eastern theological view is the theological view that I have been arguing from. Please try to understand that Western Trinitarian theology is not the theology of all Trinitarian Christianity.



That would be the case with finite beings who recognize each other as equals.

So if the Father has authority in a large way over Jesus, please might you kindly explain how that makes the two of them equal? Thanks.

 

[Eli G]

Jimb quoted John 15.26:

“When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, namely, the Spirit of truth who comes from the Father, He will testify about Me (NASB).

I agree with @jimb that this verse is evidence for the Trinity, though I would say it is just some of the evidence for the Trinity. In the following, I will explain how John 15.26 is some evidence for the Trinity.

First: non-Trinitarians do not deny the relationship among God and His Son, and neither do negate the fact that the holly spirit belongs to God. Even if there is relationship, there's not need to explain it as a God of three since only One is God and the others are His spirit and His Son.

First, Jesus mentions the Helper/Advocate and that this Helper would testify of Jesus. The title (Helper) and the action (to testify) together imply that Jesus is speaking of a person. Now, anybody can call himself an advocate and pretend to testify about something, so Jesus tells them the origin of the Helper, where the Helper comes from.

Second: The Greek word translated "helper" is Masculine, but he said "who comes from the Father" it does not say "who" but "which" in Neuter, since the spirit that comes out of the Father is not another individual, but the spirit of God.

Second, he tells them the origin of the Helper by stating he is the ‘Spirit of truth who comes from the Father.’ The Greek term translated as ‘comes from’ is ἐκπορεύεται or ekporeúetai, which is traditionally translated into English as ‘proceeds from.’ If I state that I proceeded from a room, you know that I as a creature had to enter that room from elsewhere and then leave it.

Yes, that is the meaning of that verb. The whole phrase is composed in this way:

John 15:26
Ὅταν ἔλθῃ __ when may come
ὁ παράκλητος __ the Helper
ὃν ἐγὼ πέμψω ὑμῖν __ that I will send you
παρὰ τοῦ πατρός, __ from the Father,
τὸ πνεῦμα τῆς ἀληθείας __ the spirit of the truth
ὃ παρὰ τοῦ πατρὸς ἐκπορεύεται, __ which from the Father comes out
ἐκεῖνος μαρτυρήσει περὶ ἐμοῦ· __ that one will testify about me.

On the other hand, nowhere in the Bible does it state that the Spirit came from elsewhere, entered the Father, and then proceeded from the Father. The implication is that the Spirit originated from the Father by procession. It is like saying the Spirit was ‘spirated’ or breathed out by God.

Third: non-Trinitarians who consider the spirit of God as a part of Him do not have any confusion about it. I am a Jehovah's witness, and I understand the spirit of God exactly like that.

If God the Father is not a composite being, in other words, not a creature, then his Spirit, his own Breath as it were, must be exactly what he is—God, the divine. This is the implication. Altogether, the obvious personhood of the Spirit and the implication of his divine essence is evidence that supports the Trinity.

Wrong conclusion.

The Father is the Possessor of His own spirit, and He brings it forth whenever He wills. He does not bring it forth once as if it were finished; He extends it and uses it and invests it in generating His productions infinitely, for it is not a person but His inner force and it is infinite.

That is why Jesus, once annointed on earth, needed it again when came back to heaven, and after he received more of it from the Father he sent some to his apostles during the feast of Pentecost.

Acts 2:33 Therefore, because he was exalted to the right hand of God and received the promised holy spirit from the Father, he has poured out what you see and hear.

No trinity at all in John 15:26, or wherever else.