Who caused Satan or the devil rebel

[Greatest I am]

It is only in Christian and islamic teachings that satan rebelled.

There were no rebellion in Judaism or in the Tanakh (Old Testament in Christian bible), and there no Devil nor Iblis in Judaism. To do so, was to change Abrahamic religion from monotheism to dualism, like Zoroastrianism.

In the Hebrew scriptures satan was seen as agent working for God, not against god. He was the Adversary of Man, not of God.

Since the Jews see Eden as a place for man's elevation, I would say that Satan is working for man more than against him.

You seem to think that Satan is trying to trap man but I see Satan as justifying man and not working against him.

If Satan was doing evil, then God would have passed the sentence of hell on her a long time ago. That is looking at it from the Christian POV where God condemned her to hell.

I use her because Satan is depicted as a female in Vatican art.

Christianity has some identity and sexual issues to work on.

Regards
DL

 

[Awoon1]

We know who caused Adam and Eve rebelled....the question about Who caused Satan to rebel is rather ignored or silent.
Yet there is much hype about the activity of Satan. It is true all power is in God, there is no power with out God.

The idea of Satan rebelling and being cast down, and now taking the position as an opposition against God is absurd. The question arises, can anyone or anything stand before the almighty.

It is my theory that the Satan and his angels are all part of Gods complete design, plan and purpose. Satan is playing his role in Gods plan and purpose.

The problem God has, is not with the role of Satan but the disobedient role of mankind.

Everything in Creation Story plays the role it is supposed to do. None rebelled, Sinned, Conned, or left it's place.

The Story is just a Story that people get DRUNK on, and like to fight over it. Stop drinking the Hebrew/Greco/Roman Blood/Wine teachings and sober up

 

[Midnight Rain]

We know who caused Adam and Eve rebelled....the question about Who caused Satan to rebel is rather ignored or silent.
Yet there is much hype about the activity of Satan. It is true all power is in God, there is no power with out God.

The idea of Satan rebelling and being cast down, and now taking the position as an opposition against God is absurd. The question arises, can anyone or anything stand before the almighty.

It is my theory that the Satan and his angels are all part of Gods complete design, plan and purpose. Satan is playing his role in Gods plan and purpose.

The problem God has, is not with the role of Satan but the disobedient role of mankind.

Even within Christian mythology on the subject the idea of a single character of The devil doesn't pan out. For example Satan would not have been the tempter of eve. Satan, according to the key of Solomon, was the chief representation of deadly sin of "wrath". Lucifer would have been pride and is often considered the root of the evil.

However the only way that the Christian mythology makes sense in this case is if it is not an actual entity but a concept or entities used to represent these concepts. I have always thought of the old Jewish story to be about the falling out of gods and certain energies as chaos is the natural state. "Lucifer" rebelled due to pride and shows how our prideful energies and nature will not fully allow for us to be held down by an all controlling god or force. This causes us each to go our own way. It creates strife but it also sparks creation. Two sides that are neither good nor evil.

The other deadly sins were considered "deadly" due to their destructive or chaotic nature that would cause harm upon people who had excess of any of them. I think most people can agree that the Seven Deadly sins of Wrath, Pride, Gluttony, Lust, Slothfulness, avarice and Jealousy in excess would be negative.

 

[gnostic]

You seem to think that Satan is trying to trap man but I see Satan as justifying man and not working against him.

If Satan was doing evil, then God would have passed the sentence of hell on her a long time ago. That is looking at it from the Christian POV where God condemned her to hell.

I used to believe (when I was younger, in my mid-teen to early 20s) in the traditional Christian view (though I was never Christian)...

• that Satan rebelled, and had fallen
• that Satan was the Devil, as described in the New Testament (NT), being the same as that of Satan in the Old Testament (OT),
• that Satan was the serpent in the Garden of Eden,
• and that Satan was literally Lucifer in Isaiah 14:12...

...but in the last decade or more, I no longer accept these Christian view or interpretation about Satan of the Old Testament.

Having re-read the Old Testament (OT) or the Hebrew Tanakh 12 or 13 years ago, I have completely revised my view on Satan in OT: that the OT Satan is not the same character as the NT or Christian Satan-Devil.

There are no mention of Satan rebelling against God in the Tanakh or OT, no Satan in the Garden of Eden, and no Lucifer (or Satan-Devil) in Isaiah 14:12.

I was younger back then, as a teenager, I had accepted the Christian interpretation of the whole bible, and I was living in place where I was surrounded by Christian neighbors and friends, and even my older sister was a Christian; I was probably too inexperienced when I read the bible at that time, to have my own interpretation or view that challenge the Christian tenets.

My experiences in reading and researching ancient and medieval literature on mythological and legendary themes, and creating my website - Timeless Myths - had change all that. It allowed me to read and view the bible - New Testament and Old Testament, separately, and without colouring everything, particularly OT with Christian blinders.

Since the Jews see Eden as a place for man's elevation, I would say that Satan is working for man more than against him.

Actually, Jews or Judaism don't believe the talking serpent was Satan in the Garden of Eden, just as I no longer believe the serpent to be Satan. Equating serpent with Satan is a Christian tenet, not a Jewish one.

Satan doesn't appear anywhere in the Torah (including Genesis). The first appearance of Satan was in the book of Job.

 

[Greatest I am]

The other deadly sins were considered "deadly" due to their destructive or chaotic nature that would cause harm upon people who had excess of any of them. I think most people can agree that the Seven Deadly sins of Wrath, Pride, Gluttony, Lust, Slothfulness, avarice and Jealousy in excess would be negative.

I am a jealous God. Put no one above me.

Seems God breaks his own sins.

He even coveted Mary, another man's woman, cuckolded Joseph and then turned into a deadbeat dad.

What a God. Not good that at all.

Regards
DL

 

[Nada]

 

[Greatest I am]

I used to believe (when I was younger, in my mid-teen to early 20s) in the traditional Christian view (though I was never Christian)...

• that Satan rebelled, and had fallen
• that Satan was the Devil, as described in the New Testament (NT), being the same as that of Satan in the Old Testament (OT),
• that Satan was the serpent in the Garden of Eden,
• and that Satan was literally Lucifer in Isaiah 14:12...

...but in the last decade or more, I no longer accept these Christian view or interpretation about Satan of the Old Testament.

Having re-read the Old Testament (OT) or the Hebrew Tanakh 12 or 13 years ago, I have completely revised my view on Satan in OT: that the OT Satan is not the same character as the NT or Christian Satan-Devil.

There are no mention of Satan rebelling against God in the Tanakh or OT, no Satan in the Garden of Eden, and no Lucifer (or Satan-Devil) in Isaiah 14:12.

I was younger back then, as a teenager, I had accepted the Christian interpretation of the whole bible, and I was living in place where I was surrounded by Christian neighbors and friends, and even my older sister was a Christian; I was probably too inexperienced when I read the bible at that time, to have my own interpretation or view that challenge the Christian tenets.

My experiences in reading and researching ancient and medieval literature on mythological and legendary themes, and creating my website - Timeless Myths - had change all that. It allowed me to read and view the bible - New Testament and Old Testament, separately, and without colouring everything, particularly OT with Christian blinders.



Actually, Jews or Judaism don't believe the talking serpent was Satan in the Garden of Eden, just as I no longer believe the serpent to be Satan. Equating serpent with Satan is a Christian tenet, not a Jewish one.

Satan doesn't appear anywhere in the Torah (including Genesis). The first appearance of Satan was in the book of Job.

Indeed. Where God admits to being evil and a murderer when he says that Satan moved him to destroy without cause.

When reading Jewish works, remember this quote.

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Jews do not read their works and myths literally.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Can't refute a damned word though can you?

Regards
DL

 

[Nada]

Can't refute a damned word though can you?

Regards
DL

If you are going to approach me in conversation do so with respect please.If not, do not attempt to speak to me at all.Thanks.

 

[Greatest I am]

If you are going to approach me in conversation do so with respect please.If not, do not attempt to speak to me at all.Thanks.

I returned what I received.

I see who can't handle the truth nor reciprocity.

Regards
DL

 

[Nada]

I returned what I received.

I see who can't handle the truth nor reciprocity.

Regards
DL

I explained to you but you did not listen.Now you have been put on my ignore list.Congratulations.That is one thing about me,I do not put up with your kind.I just discard them and move on.You are not worth my time and you are disrespectful.Learn how to speak to others.See ya!

 

[Greatest I am]

I explained to you but you did not listen.Now you have been put on my ignore list.Congratulations.That is one thing about me,I do not put up with your kind.I just discard them and move on.You are not worth my time and you are disrespectful.Learn how to speak to others.See ya!

You explained squat.

Better you learn how to listen then you would not believe garbage.

Regards
DL

 

[amorphous_constellation]

It is my theory that the Satan and his angels are all part of Gods complete design, plan and purpose. Satan is playing his role in Gods plan and purpose.

The problem God has, is not with the role of Satan but the disobedient role of mankind.

Well, read over the book of Job again, basically what it shows is that this bored and aloof satan entity was following the every word of the theos. In the conversations he has with god in that book, at no point does he disobey or fail to follow orders, satan does his wretched duties to the yod. Only in the new testament was this thing castigated as a dragon and a devil, making war with god and destined to be imprisoned and destroyed. Arguably the snake of genesis could have been following an order, it's not clear on that, maybe it's in the tanakh if you want to look that up.

 

[psychoslice]

Well of course there is no such thing as Satan, the rebelling is just our choice to not believe in the a god, so we invented the Devil, or Satan.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

What about the Bible is more appealing or "better" than the Vedas or the Qu'ran? That is the point I am getting to. Why do I not simply follow the scripture? For similar reasons that you do not follow other scriptures.

More appealing is: What the Bible really teaches about the condition of the dead as I posted.
What is more appealing to you about the possibility of what is taught in the Qu'ran or the Vedas?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I can't see that Satan was created perfect and then fell due to pride, because we are told "he was a murderer from the beginning, and he is a liar and the father of lies..", John 8:44, NIV.
And we read in 1 John 3:8, "He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning.
To me "from the beginning" is from his being created.

Please Bick continue reading to 1st John 3 v 11. Verse 11 is talking about the starting of discipleship [ or beginning of discipleship ] see also 1st John 2 v 7
That beginning message or from the start of Jesus' new commandment of John 13 vs 34,35
The devil was sinning from the beginning time or from the starting time at Genesis chapter 3.
The first prophecy at Genesis 3 v 15 is about that original or beginning sinner.
Satan ' created ' in the sense that Satan ' made ' or turned himself into a Devil or Satan.
Please see James 1 vs 13-15 explaining how each one is drawn out by one's own desire.

 

[Midnight Rain]

More appealing is: What the Bible really teaches about the condition of the dead as I posted.
What is more appealing to you about the possibility of what is taught in the Qu'ran or the Vedas?

I personally would find my beliefs far more appealing than that of the Christian teaching. However that isn't why I believe what I believe. And it shouldn't be why you believe what you believe. Often what is most comforting can be a lie.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I personally would find my beliefs far more appealing than that of the Christian teaching. However that isn't why I believe what I believe. And it shouldn't be why you believe what you believe. Often what is most comforting can be a lie.

Which 'Christian ' teaching are you referring to ?
Which of your beliefs are far more appealing?
Please comment on my post # 178 regarding the condition of the dead.

 

[Midnight Rain]

Which 'Christian ' teaching are you referring to ?
Which of your beliefs are far more appealing?
Please comment on my post # 178 regarding the condition of the dead.

The teaching that homosexuality is wrong, the teaching that Jesus is the only way to save our souls which are hopelessly damned by our very nature. That our god is a judgmental god.

My belief that we are all connected and as one with both nature and the gods and goddesses is more comforting to me in contrast.

I don't have a particular comment on that. Except perhaps that your view of "hell" and "punishment" is vastly different than that of the more common Christian teachings.

 

[Greatest I am]

Well of course there is no such thing as Satan, the rebelling is just our choice to not believe in the a god, so we invented the Devil, or Satan.

Just like we invented God.

Regards
DL