Who caused Satan or the devil rebel

[Greatest I am]

More appealing is: What the Bible really teaches about the condition of the dead as I posted.
What is more appealing to you about the possibility of what is taught in the Qu'ran or the Vedas?

Not having to embrace barbaric human sacrifice as somehow good.

Having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

Jesus said to pick up your cross and follow him but I see that you have taken the line that someone else should pay your dues.

Quite manly and moral that. Not.

Do you really think someone else can pay your dues and allow you to shirk your just reward?

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) “Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]

As above so below.

If you had God's power, would you not be able to find a way that does not go against the wisdom of Jesus and the bible?

Perhaps like being man enough to step up to your own demands for a worthy sacrifice?

That is what a good God would do.

Regards
DL

 

[we-live-now]

The woman is symbolic.Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel."

This is not a literal woman.It is the seed that will produce Jesus and his anointed ones.


4 Soon after the rebellion in Eden, Jehovah made a promise that a “woman” would produce a “seed.”* (Read Genesis 3:15.) That seed would eventually bruise the serpent, Satan, in the head. Jehovah later revealed that the seed would come through Abraham, belong to the nation of Israel, be a Judean, and be a descendant of King David. (Gen. 22:15-18; 49:10; Ps. 89:3, 4; Luke 1:30-33) The principal part of that seed proved to be Christ Jesus. (Gal. 3:16) The secondary part of the seed is made up of the spirit-anointed members of the Christian congregation. (Gal. 3:26-29) Jesus and these anointed ones unite to form God’s Kingdom, the instrument with which God will crush Satan.—Luke 12:32; Rom. 16:20.

5 That first prophecy given in Eden also stated that Satan would produce a “seed.” His seed would express enmity, or hatred, for the seed of the woman. Who make up the seed of the serpent? All those who imitate Satan’s hatred of God and oppose God’s people. Throughout history, Satan has organized his seed into various political movements, or kingdoms. (Luke 4:5, 6)


Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

I agree! "The woman" is the lower half of "the man". Both are spiritual beings. She is the part of "him" that exists below the firmament.

 

[gnostic]

According to Judaism and Hebrew scriptures (Tanakh), there were no rebellion, because angels have no free-will, so Satan remained an angel of god, hence there is no devil.

According to Christianity and their scriptures and church teachings, there were rebellions, and Christians viewed Satan (as well as Satan's followers) as fallen angels.

According to Islam, Muslims also believed that angels had no free will, so no rebellion from angels, but they believed in Devil-like Satan, similar to that in Christian teaching...with one exception: Muslims never view Satan as angel. Satan was a jinn, not an angel. Satan and his followers (jinn) have free will and did rebel against God.

Jews viewed Christian interpretations of the serpent-Satan-Devil (Genesis 3) and Lucifer in Isaiah 14:12, as misinterpretations.

I think - correct me, if I wrong - Jews do believe that there were demons or evil spirits, but these were no former angels.

 

[Nada]

Satan does exist.Angels do have free will.God does not create robots.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Each and everyone of us caused Satan to rebel. Because He wanted us to have a choice, to remain submissive or live free without obedience, as He wanted this choice for the Angels above, He rebelled. He did not challenge god to be god, He challenged god so that we may question why we even apply to label of god in the first place. He did not want to be god, He wanted us to fully realize that idea of creation when we were made in "Our image and likeness." He is the One he suffers eternally so that We may prosper. That other guy only lasted a weekend.

 

[Nada]

Each and everyone of us caused Satan to rebel. Because He wanted us to have a choice, to remain submissive or live free without obedience, as He wanted this choice for the Angels above, He rebelled. He did not challenge god to be god, He challenged god so that we may question why we even apply to label of god in the first place. He did not want to be god, He wanted us to fully realize that idea of creation when we were made in "Our image and likeness." He is the One he suffers eternally so that We may prosper. That other guy only lasted a weekend.

How can we cause something if we did not exist?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

How can we cause something if we did not exist?

I was building off the belief/position/idea (maybe mostly Baptist, Pentecostal, and Catholic, though I'm not really sure who teaches it and who doesn't) that we (even those of us in modern times) killed Jesus.

 

[Greatest I am]

According to Judaism and Hebrew scriptures (Tanakh), there were no rebellion, because angels have no free-will, so Satan remained an angel of god, hence there is no devil.

According to Christianity and their scriptures and church teachings, there were rebellions, and Christians viewed Satan (as well as Satan's followers) as fallen angels.

According to Islam, Muslims also believed that angels had no free will, so no rebellion from angels, but they believed in Devil-like Satan, similar to that in Christian teaching...with one exception: Muslims never view Satan as angel. Satan was a jinn, not an angel. Satan and his followers (jinn) have free will and did rebel against God.

Jews viewed Christian interpretations of the serpent-Satan-Devil (Genesis 3) and Lucifer in Isaiah 14:12, as misinterpretations.

I think - correct me, if I wrong - Jews do believe that there were demons or evil spirits, but these were no former angels.

RaceandHistory.com - Doubting the Story of Exodus

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

If I put what I gave you above together, then Jews never really believed in the supernatural and just used their myths to try to explain reality.

That is perhaps why the old Jews and Gnostic Christians used to re-write scriptures and or move words around in them. To both groups, scriptures were just tools to initiate and advance their thinking on God. I see both groups as perpetual seekers of God, as Jesus urges us to be. Archetypal Jesus that is. There may never have been the one Christianity believes in.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Satan does exist.Angels do have free will.God does not create robots.

Your God is a ----

He is supposed to be all powerful yet can't even reproduce.

He is less powerful than most of us as all he can produce is a half breed chimera. You might want to look for a God who is more powerful than we are.

Except for the fantasy characteristic that you give him of course. Can't forget your delusion can we.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Each and everyone of us caused Satan to rebel. Because He wanted us to have a choice, to remain submissive or live free without obedience, as He wanted this choice for the Angels above, He rebelled. He did not challenge god to be god, He challenged god so that we may question why we even apply to label of god in the first place. He did not want to be god, He wanted us to fully realize that idea of creation when we were made in "Our image and likeness." He is the One he suffers eternally so that We may prosper. That other guy only lasted a weekend.

Well done.

Perhaps the scribes knew what you do and that is why they had God give Satan dominion over the earth. To be our guide and teacher in rebelling against tyranny of an oppressive God or government.

Thank all the Gods that Satan, the morning star is with us. Sort of.

Jesus is the Morning Star - Rev 22:16
Satan is the Morning Star - Isaiah 14:12

Jesus is a Lion - Revelation 5:5,6
Satan is a Lion - 1 Peter 5:8

Jesus comes as Thief - Revelation 16:15
Satan comes as a Thief - John 10:10

Satan is Lucifer - Isaiah 14:12
Jesus is Lucifer - 2Pet 1:19

Regards
DL

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Not having to embrace barbaric human sacrifice as somehow good.

Having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

Jesus said to pick up your cross and follow him but I see that you have taken the line that someone else should pay your dues.

Quite manly and moral that. Not.

Do you really think someone else can pay your dues and allow you to shirk your just reward?

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) “Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]

As above so below.

If you had God's power, would you not be able to find a way that does not go against the wisdom of Jesus and the bible?

Perhaps like being man enough to step up to your own demands for a worthy sacrifice?

That is what a good God would do.

Regards
DL

What is Not appealing about post # 178 ?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The teaching that homosexuality is wrong, the teaching that Jesus is the only way to save our souls which are hopelessly damned by our very nature. That our god is a judgmental god.
My belief that we are all connected and as one with both nature and the gods and goddesses is more comforting to me in contrast.
I don't have a particular comment on that. Except perhaps that your view of "hell" and "punishment" is vastly different than that of the more common Christian teachings.

Thank you Midnight Rain for your reply on post # 178. Yes, the common view of a permanent burning hell came to be in common teaching when the Jews and others mixed Scripture with non-biblical theories or religious ideas and philosophies outside of Scripture. That religious syncretism became spread world wide, and that is why we see similar overlapping religious ideas and practices throughout the world today.

Jesus wants us connected as ' one ', so to speak, in that we should all follow Jesus' New commandment to have self-sacrificing love for others - John 13 vs 34,35 - and that form of love would even be superior to the Golden Rule. That love shows we are Not hopelessly damned.

Isn't everyone judgmental, for who would approve of murder, stealing, violence, etc. ?
Judgment against the wrongdoing not necessarily the person himself.

There were homosexuals in the first century and what was wrong for them was the practice of ' fornication '. In Scripture fornication [ Greek word porneia ] is considered as wrong for all.
Since, according to Scripture, God's dominate quality is: Love, then God's nature is: Love.
God's Love encompasses other characteristics of God's loving nature such as: mercy, forgiveness, along with being patient with mankind.

Reference - Exodus 34 v 6; Psalm 103 vs 8-14; Isaiah 55 v 7; Romans 5 v 8; John 4 v 23

 

[Sabour]

Racism

 

[Greatest I am]

What is Not appealing about post # 178 ?

I gave a thorough reply. Short form. Scapegoating is evil and Christianity is based on it.

Regards
DL

 

[Monk Of Reason]

More appealing is: What the Bible really teaches about the condition of the dead as I posted.
What is more appealing to you about the possibility of what is taught in the Qu'ran or the Vedas?

Honestly none of the books are very appealing to me. Though again WHY would it matter if it was appealing or not? What we want matters little in terms of truth.

 

[Greatest I am]

Honestly none of the books are very appealing to me. Though again WHY would it matter if it was appealing or not? What we want matters little in terms of truth.

A God is not worthy if he cannot hate everyone the theist hates.

Regards
DL

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Honestly none of the books are very appealing to me. Though again WHY would it matter if it was appealing or not? What we want matters little in terms of truth.

Did what Jesus wanted matter little in terms of truth [ religious truth - John 17 v 17 - as recorded in Scripture ?

Wouldn't it be appealing to have meat on your bones, so to speak, that is what the Bible really teaches that our flesh will be as fresh as in youth - Job 33 v 25 - released from the aging process starting with Jesus' coming 1000-year kingdom rule over earth.

At that time what we want [ desire ] will matter a LOT - Psalm 145 v 16

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Did what Jesus wanted matter little in terms of truth [ religious truth - John 17 v 17 - as recorded in Scripture ?

Wouldn't it be appealing to have meat on your bones, so to speak, that is what the Bible really teaches that our flesh will be as fresh as in youth - Job 33 v 25 - released from the aging process starting with Jesus' coming 1000-year kingdom rule over earth.

At that time what we want [ desire ] will matter a LOT - Psalm 145 v 16

Unfortunately unless your god gives us omnipotent powers then what we want is still ultimately irrelevant to the truth.

 

[Greatest I am]

Unfortunately unless your god gives us omnipotent powers then what we want is still ultimately irrelevant to the truth.

That would mean that your God creates for the worst possible end instead of the best possible end.

Perhaps that is why he chose to have Jesus murdered even before creating the potential for sin.

That makes your God quite the prick.

Why do you follow such a vile God?

Regards
DL

 

[gnostic]

As a Setian I honor the prince or Lord of Darkness in many of his names and forms, all of which like all other gods of other times and nations, have been created by men. Actually "Satan" (the rebel) is a title given to the Archangel Lucifer after his rebellion in heaven and eventual banishment. He is Lucifer who is exalted as Satan. The Prince of Darkness does not seek servants or worshippers but rather equals.

Xeper.
/Adramelek\

As Lucifer mean "light-bringer", how could he possibly be the "Prince of Darkness" or "Lord of Darkness"? Isn't that contradictory?