Who caused Satan or the devil rebel

[Monk Of Reason]

' measurable change ' ? Was there measurable change in Jesus' day ?
One person calculated that out of all the people Jesus reached that only 1% became his follower. If a person was running for office and only received 1% of the votes would there be measurable change, of course not.

We are Not talking about quantity but quality.
Being on the narrow path of Matthew chapter 7.
Jesus separated people into genuine ' wheat ' Christians and fake ' weed/tares' Christians.
Jesus separates people into humble ' sheep' or as haughty ' goats ' at Matthew 25 vs 31,32.
So, we do Not look at the world scene for measurable change, but individuals that fall into the category following Jesus 'new' commandment of John 13 vs 34,35 to change to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus had.

I am talking of people currently. There is no solid evidence that Jesus actually said what you and other Christians claim he said. The accounts were written down anonymously several years later. Many of which in the new testament were written more than a hundred years later.

But when we look at it today it is a popular religion that claims to have been able to change people's lives. But if it doesn't change your life or if you don't believe then it is your fault and you are not a true Christian. Its called "no true Scotsman". Its fallacious and unconvincing.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Satan rebelled because god is cold, self-centered, uncaring, and quick to bouts of extreme rage and violence.

 

[J0stories]

I'd say extreme arrogance and pride

Well spoken

 

[J0stories]

Satan rebelled because god is cold, self-centered, uncaring, and quick to bouts of extreme rage and violence.

Well, of course, that is your opinion but one, i suspect, is rather self serving. God, and you can call that whatever term you like, is, IMO, neither cold nor any of the other things you mention. That, of course, is my opinion. The rage and violence, btw, is perpetuated by man, not God.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I am talking of people currently. There is no solid evidence that Jesus actually said what you and other Christians claim he said. The accounts were written down anonymously several years later. Many of which in the new testament were written more than a hundred years later.
But when we look at it today it is a popular religion that claims to have been able to change people's lives. But if it doesn't change your life or if you don't believe then it is your fault and you are not a true Christian. Its called "no true Scotsman". Its fallacious and unconvincing.

Anyone who currently follows God's moral laws benefits because those moral laws exist to keep us happy. Even science puts faith in God's physical laws which are current and keeps everything in the universe ticking for us.

Currently there is solid evidence that the Bible exists and God's people exist.
Over the vast centuries the Bible has had and has many enemies from without and within.
Without God's protection guarding against such attacks the Bible would Not be preserved.
Just as recorded in Scripture, God's people currently spread the ' good news of God's kingdom' on an international scale - Matthew 24 v 14; Acts 1 v 8. Even modern technology has currently made possible rapid Bible translation to many more languages than ever before.

Even in Jesus' day there were false followers. Gospel writer Luke wrote forewarning about false clergy dressed in sheep's clothing in order to fleece the flock of God - Acts 20 vs 29,30

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Well, of course, that is your opinion but one, i suspect, is rather self serving. God, and you can call that whatever term you like, is, IMO, neither cold nor any of the other things you mention. That, of course, is my opinion. The rage and violence, btw, is perpetuated by man, not God.

That particular opinion I got from Paradise Lost. It's a good read. You should check it out sometime.

 

[Thief]

Satan rebelled because god is cold, self-centered, uncaring, and quick to bouts of extreme rage and violence.

Have you read? ...Job...

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Anyone who currently follows God's moral laws benefits because those moral laws exist to keep us happy. Even science puts faith in God's physical laws which are current and keeps everything in the universe ticking for us.

Currently there is solid evidence that the Bible exists and God's people exist.
Over the vast centuries the Bible has had and has many enemies from without and within.
Without God's protection guarding against such attacks the Bible would Not be preserved.
Just as recorded in Scripture, God's people currently spread the ' good news of God's kingdom' on an international scale - Matthew 24 v 14; Acts 1 v 8. Even modern technology has currently made possible rapid Bible translation to many more languages than ever before.

Even in Jesus' day there were false followers. Gospel writer Luke wrote forewarning about false clergy dressed in sheep's clothing in order to fleece the flock of God - Acts 20 vs 29,30

Of course the bible exists. But is it true. My money is on it not being true. The bible has also undergone two major revisions prior to being translated and from there its been a hot mess depending on which cannon your talking about. If you read the King James Version then you are reading a version passed by British Parliament rather than any religious body

 

[J0stories]

That particular opinion I got from Paradise Lost. It's a good read. You should check it out sometime.

I did not recognize it. My apologies.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Of course the bible exists. But is it true. My money is on it not being true. The bible has also undergone two major revisions prior to being translated and from there its been a hot mess depending on which cannon your talking about. If you read the King James Version then you are reading a version passed by British Parliament rather than any religious body

Glad to see you recognize KJV English is Not what the apostles had.
We can compare the KJV with ancient Hebrew and Greek manuscripts which do support Bible canon. The apocryphal books exclude themselves being out of harmony with the ' 66 ' books of Bible canon.

This has nothing to do with anything, but I have always found it to be of interest that Shakespeare lived at the time of KJV. Supposedly he was 46 years old when Psalm 46 was translated into KJV English. If one counts 46 words down from the top of Psalm 46 it comes to the word ' shake ' and if one counts 46 words up from the bottom of Psalm 46 it comes to the word ' spear ' thus shakespear without the e on the end. Modern English would Not necessarily have those exact words, but the meaning comes across.

Just as some versions say do Not be fashioned after the world, or do Not be conformed after the world, or do Not be molded after the world, the meaning still comes across.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Glad to see you recognize KJV English is Not what the apostles had.
We can compare the KJV with ancient Hebrew and Greek manuscripts which do support Bible canon. The apocryphal books exclude themselves being out of harmony with the ' 66 ' books of Bible canon.

This has nothing to do with anything, but I have always found it to be of interest that Shakespeare lived at the time of KJV. Supposedly he was 46 years old when Psalm 46 was translated into KJV English. If one counts 46 words down from the top of Psalm 46 it comes to the word ' shake ' and if one counts 46 words up from the bottom of Psalm 46 it comes to the word ' spear ' thus shakespear without the e on the end. Modern English would Not necessarily have those exact words, but the meaning comes across.

Just as some versions say do Not be fashioned after the world, or do Not be conformed after the world, or do Not be molded after the world, the meaning still comes across.

True. But what of some specific such as "Suffer not a witch to live". How does the same meaning come across?


And what of the large number of books not accepted as scripture? Also based off of the opinion of men.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

True. But what of some specific such as "Suffer not a witch to live". How does the same meaning come across?
And what of the large number of books not accepted as scripture? Also based off of the opinion of men.

Practicing witchcraft would fall into the category of Deuteronomy 18 vs 10,11.
Isaiah 1 v 13 wrote that God would Not put up with the use of uncanny or magical power.

Those ' large number of books not accepted as Scripture ' are apocryphal books.
Those books are out of harmony with the ' 66 ' books that make up Bible canon.
In other words, the ' 66 ' are in harmony with each other by having cross-reference verses and passages which parallel or correspond with each other. That is what made it possible for Jesus to base his teachings on those old Hebrew Scriptures explaining or expounding them for us.

Also, especially when the Jews began mixing with the Greeks they started to adopt their theories or philosophies and started to teach them as being Scripture when they are Not Scripture.

For example: When KJV translated the word ' Gehenna ' in English as ' hell fire ' that gave a twist to the word Gehenna. Gehenna was simply a garbage pit outside of Jerusalem where things were destroyed and Not kept burning forever. So ' Gehenna ' is a fitting word for destruction.
Which is in harmony with Psalm 92 v 7 which says the wicked will be destroyed forever.
Since witchcraft is considered as being wicked in the Bible, then those practicing witchcraft could end up being destroyed forever, Not burning forever. 2nd Peter 3 v 9 mentions that we should all repent so as Not to perish (be destroyed ).

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Practicing witchcraft would fall into the category of Deuteronomy 18 vs 10,11.
Isaiah 1 v 13 wrote that God would Not put up with the use of uncanny or magical power.

Those ' large number of books not accepted as Scripture ' are apocryphal books.
Those books are out of harmony with the ' 66 ' books that make up Bible canon.
In other words, the ' 66 ' are in harmony with each other by having cross-reference verses and passages which parallel or correspond with each other. That is what made it possible for Jesus to base his teachings on those old Hebrew Scriptures explaining or expounding them for us.

Also, especially when the Jews began mixing with the Greeks they started to adopt their theories or philosophies and started to teach them as being Scripture when they are Not Scripture.

For example: When KJV translated the word ' Gehenna ' in English as ' hell fire ' that gave a twist to the word Gehenna. Gehenna was simply a garbage pit outside of Jerusalem where things were destroyed and Not kept burning forever. So ' Gehenna ' is a fitting word for destruction.
Which is in harmony with Psalm 92 v 7 which says the wicked will be destroyed forever.
Since witchcraft is considered as being wicked in the Bible, then those practicing witchcraft could end up being destroyed forever, Not burning forever. 2nd Peter 3 v 9 mentions that we should all repent so as Not to perish (be destroyed ).

You seem to be knowledge. I am surprised you didn't know that the term "witch" in the passage I mentioned was a pure mistranslation. This of course being one of many.

Of course the Cannon is the cannon but there are several books that could have easily made cannon but were not chosen.

And last thing on magic....the functional difference between magic and many old Jewish practices are non-existent.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

You seem to be knowledge. I am surprised you didn't know that the term "witch" in the passage I mentioned was a pure mistranslation. This of course being one of many.
Of course the Cannon is the cannon but there are several books that could have easily made cannon but were not chosen.
And last thing on magic....the functional difference between magic and many old Jewish practices are non-existent.

The books Not chosen are out of harmony with the '66' chosen books of Bible canon.
Any book in particular that you know of that claims to be in harmony with the ' 66 ' ?

Thank you for bringing to my attention about ' suffer not a witch to live '. My bad, I was thinking you were referring to some old translation and without the chapter and verse I was Not sure which verse you had in mind, so I just addressed witchcraft [ spiritualism/ spiritism ] in general.

Existing witchcraft or spiritualism is often connected to the belief that the dead are more alive after death. That belief of being alive at death was part of false ancient beliefs with roots in religious myths. The idea of the dead having dis-embodied spirit bodies and thus being able to contact or somehow communicate with the living is a non-biblical teaching.
Especially when the Jews mixed with the Greeks, then theories and philosophies of men became taught as Scripture although Not found in Scripture.

The reason I say the ^ above ^ is because Jesus taught unconscious sleep in death - John 11 vs 11-14. Jesus was well educated in the old Hebrew Scriptures which teach sleep in death. Such as: Psalms 6 v 5; 13 v 3; 115 v 17; 146 v 4. The prophet Daniel also believed in the sleeping condition of the dead according to Daniel 12 vs 2,13. King Solomon, who was known for his God-given wisdom, wrote at Ecclesiastes 9 v 5 that the dead known nothing at all.
So, what the Bible really teaches is that we can be brought back to life via: resurrection.
Some people are called to heavenly life - Rev. 20 v 6, while the majority of mankind - John 3 v 13 - will have a healthy physical future resurrection being restored back to life on earth starting with Jesus' coming 1000-year kingdom rule over earth, or over earthly subjects of God's kingdom government over earth - Psalms 72 vs 8, 12-14; 37 vs 11,29.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

The books Not chosen are out of harmony with the '66' chosen books of Bible canon.
Any book in particular that you know of that claims to be in harmony with the ' 66 ' ?

Thank you for bringing to my attention about ' suffer not a witch to live '. My bad, I was thinking you were referring to some old translation and without the chapter and verse I was Not sure which verse you had in mind, so I just addressed witchcraft [ spiritualism/ spiritism ] in general.

Existing witchcraft or spiritualism is often connected to the belief that the dead are more alive after death. That belief of being alive at death was part of false ancient beliefs with roots in religious myths. The idea of the dead having dis-embodied spirit bodies and thus being able to contact or somehow communicate with the living is a non-biblical teaching.
Especially when the Jews mixed with the Greeks, then theories and philosophies of men became taught as Scripture although Not found in Scripture.

The reason I say the ^ above ^ is because Jesus taught unconscious sleep in death - John 11 vs 11-14. Jesus was well educated in the old Hebrew Scriptures which teach sleep in death. Such as: Psalms 6 v 5; 13 v 3; 115 v 17; 146 v 4. The prophet Daniel also believed in the sleeping condition of the dead according to Daniel 12 vs 2,13. King Solomon, who was known for his God-given wisdom, wrote at Ecclesiastes 9 v 5 that the dead known nothing at all.
So, what the Bible really teaches is that we can be brought back to life via: resurrection.
Some people are called to heavenly life - Rev. 20 v 6, while the majority of mankind - John 3 v 13 - will have a healthy physical future resurrection being restored back to life on earth starting with Jesus' coming 1000-year kingdom rule over earth, or over earthly subjects of God's kingdom government over earth - Psalms 72 vs 8, 12-14; 37 vs 11,29.

That doesn't really address my point of the mistranslation.

 

[psychoslice]

Well, if there is such thing as the god of the old testament, wouldn't anyone rebel, heck I would.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Well, if there is such thing as the god of the old testament, wouldn't anyone rebel, heck I would.

What would you rebel about in Leviticus chapter 19 ?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

That doesn't really address my point of the mistranslation.

What chapter and verse are you referring ?
KJV took the liberty to add additional words after the ending of Mark 16 v 8.
That does Not make Scripture as wrong, but the ones adding on the added words as wrong.

Remember No two languages are exactly alike in grammar or even vocabulary and even in sentence structure, so no modern language can exactly mirror the Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic. Remember too context and setting vary as to word meaning.
The Bible talks about literal sleep, but also the sleep of death. Context and setting helps discern which is intended: whether just falling asleep, or falling asleep in death.

The Bible has a theme, and the theme of Jesus preaching and teaching - Luke 4 v 43 - ties in with the Bible's theme of ' God's kingdom ' . God's kingdom government as being the final solution to mankind's problems.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

What chapter and verse are you referring ?
KJV took the liberty to add additional words after the ending of Mark 16 v 8.
That does Not make Scripture as wrong, but the ones adding on the added words as wrong.

Remember No two languages are exactly alike in grammar or even vocabulary and even in sentence structure, so no modern language can exactly mirror the Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic. Remember too context and setting vary as to word meaning.
The Bible talks about literal sleep, but also the sleep of death. Context and setting helps discern which is intended: whether just falling asleep, or falling asleep in death.

The Bible has a theme, and the theme of Jesus preaching and teaching - Luke 4 v 43 - ties in with the Bible's theme of ' God's kingdom ' . God's kingdom government as being the final solution to mankind's problems.

No to languages are the same. In fact it is easy to show where many different terms have been adopted by the church when they hit certain areas. The KJV for example is one such case.

 

[psychoslice]

What would you rebel about in Leviticus chapter 19 ?

Don't cherry pick, read all the chapter.