Who Or What Is Israel?

[Bthoth]

The answer to the question of who the first Jewish woman is, how her seed is Jewish, and why the male convert can't affect Jewish offspring, is as simple as it is scientifically and theologically correct.

You have my interest

The woman and her seed are the default human archetype. Every woman, all ova, are Jewish, every single one of them.

Does the knowledge of the commandments convey by genetic?

She is a Jew, and all her ova are Jewish,

Magic? She observes the rules by magically having them imbued to her mind?

The seed of the male transforms the Jewish woman, all women, to a Gentile, as it transforms the Jewish ova in her womb to Gentile.

How is that scientific?

Therefore, for a male to convert so he can become a Jew, he must cut and bleed the emblem of his toxic-masculinity, the Gentile organ, the male genitalia, which is the undeniable deliverer of toxic-masculinity

Toxic?

Who, therefore, can save humanity from the fact that what Judaism delivers in its amazing and gracious brilliance, is left dangling as emblems, religious rituals, and signs, none of which truly affects the fact that the "seed of the man" is in all cases toxic, while the "seed of the woman" is in all cases Jewish, such that the only salvation from death, disease, want, and all that comes with it, is in the "seed of the woman," the Jewish seed, before it's contaminated with the toxic-masculinity that comes from all masculine seed be the deliverer Jew or Gentile?

WOW, I cannot believe that you could write that and actually try to convey it as scientific with "its amazing and gracious brilliance.

 

[John D. Brey]

You have my interest

. . . Well it ain't breakfast at Tiffany's but it's one thing we got. Which is more than I can say I expected. So it's really quite a lot.




John

 

[John D. Brey]

The woman and her seed are the default human archetype. Every woman, all ova, are Jewish, every single one of them.

Does the knowledge of the commandments convey by genetic?

Biblically speaking, there were genes, genetics, even human genes, human genetics, before there were commandments.

Starting from the assumption that Romans 7 continues Romans 5, I want to propose that the entire discourse about Law and commandment in this section of Romans has to do with sexuality. Of all the myriad interpretations that have been offered for the soliloquy of chapter 7, the one that makes the most sense to me, for all its problems, is the interpretation that the speaker of these verses is Adam . . ..​

​

1. Only Adam was alive before any commandment was given (v. 9).​

2. The commandment not to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge came and gave Sin (the Serpent) an opportunity to bring death to Adam (v. 9).​

3. "Sin deceived me" (εξηπατησεν) is the same term that Eve used to describe what happened to her, namely, that the Serpent "deceived me" (ηπατησεν με) (v. 11; cf. Gen. 3:13).​

4. The result of the transgression is death, so "the very commandment which promised life [be fruitful and multiply] proved to be death to me."​

​

Professor Daniel Boyarin, A Radical Jew.​

Daniel Boyarin argues that Adam (in the hands of St. Paul's soliloquy in Romans chapter 7) is extremely confused by the commandment to be fruitful and multiply (have sex). He's vertiginously confused after it turns out that this second commandment (be fruitful and multiply) seems to parallel the first commandment not to eat of the tree of knowledge since the penalty for eating of the tree of knowledge is rendered to Adam and Eve when they have sex (are fruitfully multiplied by that pargaon of perfection Cain). Ergo, the original commandment to Adam, and the second commandment to Adam, both lead to death, and in such a manner that the second commandment (a positive commandment), be fruitful and multiply, contradicts the first commandment (a negative commandment), if, when the second commandment is affected, the penalty for braking the first commandment is rendered. Adam is traped in something like a theological bear-trap with no escape if he's commanded not to have sex (don't eat of the tree of knowledge), and then commanded to be fruitful and multiply (have sex: eat the apple of one's eye).

One of the most pervasive metaphors for sex in talmudic literature associates it with food. . . For example, wives in the talmudic texts to be discussed below describe their and their husband's sexual practice as "setting the table" and "turning it over," and the Talmud itself produces a comparison between sexuality and food--- either of which one may "cook" however one pleases, provided only that it is kosher to begin with. . . the force of the metaphor and the implied equation of the woman's body to food cannot be denied. . . The eating metaphor here must be read within the context of the rich field of metaphor in which sex and eating are mutually mapped onto each other in the talmudic culture with eating the quintessential signifier of that which is both pleasurable and necessary for health and well-being. . . Thus the Mishna at Ketubbot 5:9 reads that a wife has the right to eat with her husband every Friday night, and in both Talmuds, this is understood to mean to have sexual intercourse with him.​

​

Rabbi Daniel Boyarin, Carnal Israel, p. 72; 116-117.​

John

 

[Bthoth]

Biblically speaking, there were genes, genetics, even human genes, human genetics, before there were commandments.

OK.. but science is best used to expose such facts as that.

I was trying to address, the scope of a religious identifier conveying via genetics (procreation). The old idea of a family or lineage being better than another is a root foundation of racism and bigotry.

It should not be allowed in a civilized world/society.

Starting from the assumption that Romans 7 continues Romans 5, I want to propose that the entire discourse about Law and commandment in this section of Romans has to do with sexuality. Of all the myriad interpretations that have been offered for the soliloquy of chapter 7, the one that makes the most sense to me, for all its problems, is the interpretation that the speaker of these verses is Adam . . ..​

​

1. Only Adam was alive before any commandment was given (v. 9).​

​

2. The commandment not to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge came and gave Sin (the Serpent) an opportunity to bring death to Adam (v. 9).​

​

3. "Sin deceived me" (εξηπατησεν) is the same term that Eve used to describe what happened to her, namely, that the Serpent "deceived me" (ηπατησεν με) (v. 11; cf. Gen. 3:13).​

​

4. The result of the transgression is death, so "the very commandment which promised life [be fruitful and multiply] proved to be death to me."​

​

Professor Daniel Boyarin, A Radical Jew.​

It's best to realize that no one was there to witness the conversations and write them as verbatim.

Daniel Boyarin argues that Adam (in the hands of St. Paul's soliloquy in Romans chapter 7) is extremely confused by the commandment to be fruitful and multiply (have sex). He's vertiginously confused after it turns out that this second commandment (be fruitful and multiply) seems to parallel the first commandment not to eat of the tree of knowledge since the penalty for eating of the tree of knowledge is rendered to Adam and Eve when they have sex (are fruitfully multiplied by that pargaon of perfection Cain). Ergo, the original commandment to Adam, and the second commandment to Adam, both lead to death, and in such a manner that the second commandment (a positive commandment), be fruitful and multiply, contradicts the first commandment (a negative commandment), if, when the second commandment is affected, the penalty for braking the first commandment is rendered. Adam is traped in something like a theological bear-trap with no escape if he's commanded not to have sex (eat of the tree of knowledge), and then commanded to be fruitful and multiply (have sex).



John

I see where you are conflating the story with my question: do commandments (personal responsibility) convey by lineage/genetically by woman or the man? Anyone of science will easily say 'NO' and what bugs me is to consider that a child of man/woman (all cases) affects which person is Jew and which is not.

Again, using lineage to identify a religious identifier is uncivilized-tribal in nature. The choice is the individual person of whether they are to keep the rules of any specific religion or not.

 

[John D. Brey]

I see where you are conflating the story with my question: do commandments (personal responsibility) convey by lineage/genetically by woman or the man? Anyone of science will easily say 'NO' and what bugs me is to consider that a child of man/woman (all cases) affects which person is Jew and which is not. . .
Again, using lineage to identify a religious identifier is uncivilized-tribal in nature. The choice is the individual person of whether they are to keep the rules of any specific religion or not.

Not only do I agree with your statements, but everything I've contributed to this thread is designed to show that examined more carefully ---reverse-engineered ----the truths hidden in Judaism are not semi-racist, though they might appear that way as they're presented. The truths hidden in Judaism are scientifically correct, and are not racist, silly, or contrary in any way to sound science.

To show that Jewish rituals are correct science, we need merely unpack the verbiage, semantics, and rituals, through which they're mythologically conveyed. The word "Jewish" is a mythological or religious word that circumscribes the scientific fact that prior to sexual reproduction coming on the scene (late in the evolutionary process) all living organisms possessed biological-immortality. They only died accidental deaths come from the environment. Their genes didn't senescence and age. If they evaded accidental death they could live forever. But a second scientific truth lends even more weight to what's already been said in this thread. Before sex entered the scene, all living organisms were female, women, mothers (so far as the binary nature of gender is concerned). All living organisms were Jewish mothers, possessed of the seed of the woman, until the arrival of sex and the seed of the serpent (male seed).

With only a handful of exceptions, single-celled organisms reproducing exclusively by simple fission lack one feature that ultimately brings death to all single-cells that have sex, and all multicellular organisms, including human beings: senescence, the gradual, programmed aging of cells and organisms they make up, independently of events in the environment. Accidental cell death was around from the very first appearance of anything we would call life. Death of the organism through senescence ---programmed death----- makes its appearance in evolution at about the same time that sexual reproduction appears.​

​

Professor William R. Clark, Sex & The Origins of Death, p. 62-63.​

If we transmute the myth of the Jewish mother as the only way to birth a Jew (a Jew being an immortal soul) into science, we could say that prior to the evolutionary arrival of the male-organ, all living organisms were biologically immortal Jews who acquired their biological immortality from their mothers none of whom were contaminated with the death-gene that comes on the scene only after the evolution of the first male, and the first male organ.

Death, the literal dis-integration of the husk of the body, was the grim price exacted by meiotic sexuality. Complex development in protoctists and their animal and plant descendants led to the evolution of death as a kind of sexually transmitted disease.​

​

Lynn Margulis, Symbiotic Planet, p. 90.​

​

Obligatory death as a result of senescence – natural aging – may not have come into existence for more than a billion years after life first appeared. This form of programmed death seems to have arisen at about the same time that cells began experimenting with sex in connection with reproduction. It may have been the ultimate loss of innocence.​

​

Professor William R. Clark, Sex & The Origins of Death, Prologue XI.​

​

Through Milah [bleeding the male-organ to death] it would be possible to return to the level of Adam and Eve before the sin. In other words, mankind would again have direct access to the spiritual dimension. . . circumcision restored Abraham and his descendants to the status of Adam before his sin [phallic-sex]. . . If not for Adam's sin, all mankind would have had the status of Israel.​

​

Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan, Inner Space, p. 166; The Handbook of Jewish Thought, p.47; Ibid. p. 39.​

​

Prior to the evolution of the male, the phallus, and binary reproduction through sex, immortality reigned throughout a biosphere peopled only by Jewish mothers and their offspring. Voila. The first ritually significant Jewish "male," which is a scientific oxymoron, comes on the scene when a phallic-male takes a knife and ritually removes the very organ, male-flesh, that brought death into the biology of living organisms in the first place. In effect, and with this ritual, Judaism not only links itself with the sound science presented above, but it tells us something stupendously great: senescence and death is not a permanent feature of human evolution. Sexual-reproduction, with its death-sentence, is a temporary epoch that will come to an end with the arrival of the Jewish Messiah, who, if you could believe it, is the first human male actually born (rather than ritually born) apart from phallic sex. The Jewish Messiah is the first human who's born immoral like all the living organisms that existed before sex transferred its death-sentence. Furthermore, he's immortal for a very simple, scientific, reason: he's conceived without the male-organ, without bi-gendered sex, and without acquiring the death-sentence that passes through anyone and everyone conceived by the male-seed of the biological serpent.

Science says senescence, aging, and guaranteed death, comes from the male. The Jewish male ritually eliminates his possibility of contaminating the seed of the woman, the seed of the Jewish mother, who, her seed, has, from the start of life on earth, always been free of the death-sentence that's transferred in every case by the male-organ. The ritually ensconced Jewish male does this by ritually bleeding the organ that transfers a death-sentence every time it acts as the tree of life. This being the case, the oxymoronic Jewish male, the "real" rather than the "ritual," must come on the scene when his father is really, rather than merely ritually, cut clean out of his conception and birth.

History awaits the revelation of such an unheard of thing (a virgin-born Jewish male) such that we can all be reborn back into our immortality.



John

 

[Ebionite]

What quality Determines Israel if Not Hereditary?

The house of Israel was distunguished from the house of Judah by membership in particular tribes, which was generally hereditary.

 

[Bthoth]

Not only do I agree with your statements, but everything I've contributed to this thread is designed to show that examined more carefully ---reverse-engineered ----the truths hidden in Judaism are not semi-racist, though they might appear that way as they're presented. The truths hidden in Judaism are scientifically correct, and are not racist, silly, or contrary in any way to sound science.

To show that Jewish rituals are correct science, we need merely unpack the verbiage, semantics, and rituals, through which they're mythologically conveyed. The word "Jewish" is a mythological or religious word that circumscribes the scientific fact that prior to sexual reproduction coming on the scene (late in the evolutionary process) all living organisms possessed biological-immortality. They only died accidental deaths come from the environment. Their genes didn't senescence and age. If they evaded accidental death they could live forever. But a second scientific truth lends even more weight to what's already been said in this thread. Before sex entered the scene, all living organisms were female, women, mothers (so far as the binary nature of gender is concerned). All living organisms were Jewish mothers, possessed of the seed of the woman, until the arrival of sex and the seed of the serpent (male seed).

With only a handful of exceptions, single-celled organisms reproducing exclusively by simple fission lack one feature that ultimately brings death to all single-cells that have sex, and all multicellular organisms, including human beings: senescence, the gradual, programmed aging of cells and organisms they make up, independently of events in the environment. Accidental cell death was around from the very first appearance of anything we would call life. Death of the organism through senescence ---programmed death----- makes its appearance in evolution at about the same time that sexual reproduction appears.​

​

Professor William R. Clark, Sex & The Origins of Death, p. 62-63.​

If we transmute the myth of the Jewish mother as the only way to birth a Jew (a Jew being an immortal soul) into science, we could say that prior to the evolutionary arrival of the male-organ, all living organisms were biologically immortal Jews who acquired their biological immortality from their mothers none of whom were contaminated with the death-gene that comes on the scene only after the evolution of the first male, and the first male organ.

Death, the literal dis-integration of the husk of the body, was the grim price exacted by meiotic sexuality. Complex development in protoctists and their animal and plant descendants led to the evolution of death as a kind of sexually transmitted disease.​

​

Lynn Margulis, Symbiotic Planet, p. 90.​

​

Obligatory death as a result of senescence – natural aging – may not have come into existence for more than a billion years after life first appeared. This form of programmed death seems to have arisen at about the same time that cells began experimenting with sex in connection with reproduction. It may have been the ultimate loss of innocence.​

​

Professor William R. Clark, Sex & The Origins of Death, Prologue XI.​

​

Through Milah [bleeding the male-organ to death] it would be possible to return to the level of Adam and Eve before the sin. In other words, mankind would again have direct access to the spiritual dimension. . . circumcision restored Abraham and his descendants to the status of Adam before his sin [phallic-sex]. . . If not for Adam's sin, all mankind would have had the status of Israel.​

​

Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan, Inner Space, p. 166; The Handbook of Jewish Thought, p.47; Ibid. p. 39.​

​

Prior to the evolution of the male, the phallus, and binary reproduction through sex, immortality reigned throughout a biosphere peopled only by Jewish mothers and their offspring. Voila. The first ritually significant Jewish "male," which is a scientific oxymoron, comes on the scene when a phallic-male takes a knife and ritually removes the very organ, male-flesh, that brought death into the biology of living organisms in the first place. In effect, and with this ritual, Judaism not only links itself with the sound science presented above, but it tells us something stupendously great: senescence and death is not a permanent feature of human evolution. Sexual-reproduction, with its death-sentence, is a temporary epoch that will come to an end with the arrival of the Jewish Messiah, who, if you could believe it, is the first human male actually born (rather than ritually born) apart from phallic sex. The Jewish Messiah is the first human who's born immoral like all the living organisms that existed before sex transferred its death-sentence. Furthermore, he's immortal for a very simple, scientific, reason: he's conceived without the male-organ, without bi-gendered sex, and without acquiring the death-sentence that passes through anyone and everyone conceived by the male-seed of the biological serpent.

Science says senescence, aging, and guaranteed death, comes from the male. The Jewish male ritually eliminates his possibility of contaminating the seed of the woman, the seed of the Jewish mother, who, her seed, has, from the start of life on earth, always been free of the death-sentence that's transferred in every case by the male-organ. The ritually ensconced Jewish male does this by ritually bleeding the organ that transfers a death-sentence every time it acts as the tree of life. This being the case, the oxymoronic Jewish male, the "real" rather than the "ritual," must come on the scene when his father is really, rather than merely ritually, cut clean out of his conception and birth.

History awaits the revelation of such an unheard of thing (a virgin-born Jewish male) such that we can all be reborn back into our immortality.



John

I enjoyed reading the page but the logic still falls short even with the 'handbook' style clips so readily available to produce.

But each time I read your replies, it fascinates me how creative your mind puts the variety of pieces together. I used to be that quick and able to keep many parts of a puzzle together, in my head.

Thanks for the additional information but I am curious about the label and identity of Jew being used in a procreation sensibility?

 

[John D. Brey]

I enjoyed reading the page but the logic still falls short even with the 'handbook' style clips so readily available to produce.

But each time I read your replies, it fascinates me how creative your mind puts the variety of pieces together. I used to be that quick and able to keep many parts of a puzzle together, in my head.

Thanks for the additional information but I am curious about the label and identity of Jew being used in a procreation sensibility?

Although I always respond improvisationally (in order to be honest to the reader) nevertheless, these things have been previously discussed to the tune of hundreds of pages in this forum. Which is to say the creativity isn't simply on the fly so to say.

I see that you're new here. So you wouldn't be aware that we've discussed these things till the cows come home around these parts. I take what I consider the important stuff from threads like this and edit them into essays which I post to Academia.edu. There's an essay composed exclusively from stuff debated here in the forum that deals precisely with what you and I have been discussing called Sex and the Origins of Death. The essay is almost forty pages long and as noted is made up exclusively from stuff originally debated here in the forum.

That said, the point in discussing it again is to glean new stuff and not just to repeat what's already been covered. Which is why it's important to be completely improvisational and not just regurgitate old stuff. Some new ideas have already come out of our discussion.

Btw, it's probably fair to say that the area where you feel the logic falls short are all shored up nicely in the longer presentation of the concepts as noted above. It's much easier to be comprehensive in forty pages than in one or two.




John

 

[Bthoth]

Although I always respond improvisationally (in order to be honest to the reader) nevertheless, these things have been previously discussed to the tune of hundreds of pages in this forum. Which is to say the creativity isn't simply on the fly so to say.

I see that you're new here. So you wouldn't be aware that we've discussed these things till the cows come home around these parts. I take what I consider the important stuff from threads like this and edit them into essays which I post to Academia.edu. There's an essay composed exclusively from stuff debated here in the forum that deals precisely with what you and I have been discussing called Sex and the Origins of Death. The essay is almost forty pages long and as noted is made up exclusively from stuff originally debated here in the forum.

That said, the point in discussing it again is to glean new stuff and not just to repeat what's already been covered. Which is why it's important to be completely improvisational and not just regurgitate old stuff. Some new ideas have already come out of our discussion.

Btw, it's probably fair to say that the area where you feel the logic falls short are all shored up nicely in the longer presentation of the concepts as noted above. It's much easier to be comprehensive in forty pages than in one or two.




John

Sex in how living systems are given a chance to live which is opposite of the model that I read. The reason is the living process does not appear to be included in that last write up. Throughout nature, procreating enables a species to survive beyond the individual death. Not because of dna or mass conveying across a time period but the light, the energy itself is conveying with a chance to survive upon a whole new vehicle/body of mass within the next environment and time.

The new paradigm to observe natural processes is practically opposite of the old model because the living process and what enables the life to continue is based on the energy (aka..spirit) rather than the body (mass).

 

[John D. Brey]

Sex in how living systems are given a chance to live which is opposite of the model that I read.

Sex is an anomaly, a mutation, an unholy divergence, a deformity away from the original norm. Not only that, but before the mutation, i.e., sex (that is, before the arrival of the "male"), all life, all living, was immortal. There was no genetically pre-programmed certainty of death until the mutation that became the "male." With him came his unholy desire for sex. His desire and lust came, so to say, on, and all over (so far as mammals are concerned) the scene; and with it the end of biological immortality.

The acceptance of the Phallus is immoral. It has always been thought of as hateful; it has been the image of Satan, and Dante made it the central pillar of hell.​

​

Otto Weininger, Sex and Character.​

Throughout nature, procreating enables a species to survive beyond the individual death.

Right. The "seed of the woman" to this very day retains the immortality that existed for the entire organism prior to the sexual revolution. Totipotent stem-cells are immortal. They neither age nor die. It's not until the seed of the serpent (semen) has its way with the totipotent stem-cell that the death-gene kicks in. In the earliest stages of development, the human embryo is immortal just like all other living organisms once were.

The development of the embryo-fetus reaches a stage where the death-gene ---which comes only with semen -----begins to kick in, and with it, mortality. If the "seed of the woman" could begin splitting without the curtain or membrane sealing the sanctity/immortality of the womanly temple being torn, then the offspring of that pregnancy would be immortal through and through.

If a human being is born from the temple of a female body before the curtain of that temple, the membrane of sanctity/virginity, is torn, it's literally possible to look up to the branch where this immortal being is raised and be immediate healed of the bite and venom of the biological serpents roaming the earth in search of a new den to occupy.

This is the scientific background necessary to understand the mythologization of science in Jewish law and practice. The "seed of the woman" (the ova of the Jewish mothers) are "immortal," that is to say "Jewish," until they're contaminated by the seed of the serpent ---semen. In Judaism, the female doesn't have to be circumcised since that bloody-ritual is the mythological means of allowing the Jewish mother to retain her ability to birth immortal offspring since the purportive/pejorative fathering organ ---if he's ritually circumcised ---has, at least ritually, mythologically, bled to death the serpent who's testicles are the source and home of the "death-gene." He thereby, by bleeding the serpent, purifies his union with the Jewish mother and thus protects her immortal seed from being contaminated by the death-dealing seed of the serpent.

Though Judaism conceeds that the purifying of the womanly seed (brit milah) is "ritual," as R.B.Thieme, Jr. was wont to repeat over and over again, ritual without reality is a farce. What's ritualized in Jewish practice signifies a scientifically verifiable reality that suggests a firstborn Jewish male will one day be born with the tell-tale sign that his mother's curtain, membrane, is intact, while her seed is developing into an immortal stem-cell inside her still virgin womb. When that day arrive, the reign of the death-dealing serpent will be on life-support.



John

 

[Bthoth]

Sex is an anomaly, a mutation, an unholy divergence, a deformity away from the original norm. Not only that, but before the mutation, i.e., sex (that is, before the arrival of the "male"), all life, all living, was immortal. There was no genetically pre-programmed certainty of death until the mutation that became the "male." With him came his unholy desire for sex. His desire and lust came, so to say, on, and all over (so far as mammals are concerned) the scene; and with it the end of biological immortality.

The acceptance of the Phallus is immoral. It has always been thought of as hateful; it has been the image of Satan, and Dante made it the central pillar of hell.​

​

Otto Weininger, Sex and Character.​

Top line exposes the misunderstood comprehension of nature and adding additional structure to cause. Natures processes existed well before holy and unholy concepts/abstracts of man made descriptions/words.

Right. The "seed of the woman" to this very day retains the immortality that existed for the entire organism prior to the sexual revolution. Totipotent stem-cells are immortal. They neither age nor die. It's not until the seed of the serpent (semen) has its way with the totipotent stem-cell that the death-gene kicks in. In the earliest stages of development, the human embryo is immortal just like all other living organisms once were.

The development of the embryo-fetus reaches a stage where the death-gene ---which comes only with semen -----begins to kick in, and with it, mortality. If the "seed of the woman" could begin splitting without the curtain or membrane sealing the sanctity/immortality of the womanly temple being torn, then the offspring of that pregnancy would be immortal through and through.

If a human being is born from the temple of a female body before the curtain of that temple, the membrane of sanctity/virginity, is torn, it's literally possible to look up to the branch where this immortal being is raised and be immediate healed of the bite and venom of the biological serpents roaming the earth in search of a new den to occupy.

This is the scientific background necessary to understand the mythologization of science in Jewish law and practice. The "seed of the woman" (the ova of the Jewish mother) is "immortal," that is to say "Jewish," until it's contaminated by the seed of the serpent ---semen. In Judaism, the female doesn't have to be circumcised since that bloody-ritual is the mythological means of allowing the Jewish mother to retain her ability to birth immortal offspring since the purportive/pejorative father ---if he's ritually circumcised ---has, at least ritually, mythologically, bled the serpent who's testicles retain the "death-gene" therein purifying his union with the Jewish mother and thus protecting her immortal seed from being contaminated by the death-dealing seed of the serpent.



John

Im sorry John, circumcision began in egypt as a method to reduce STD's brought back home from the spoils of war.

The god that began the requirement was a pharaoh.

 

[John D. Brey]

Im sorry John, circumcision began in egypt as a method to reduce STD's . . .

Death, the literal dis-integration of the husk of the body, was the grim price exacted by meiotic sexuality. Complex development in protoctists and their animal and plant descendants led to the evolution of death as a kind of sexually transmitted disease.​

​

Lynn Margulis, Symbiotic Planet, p. 90.​

John

 

[Bthoth]

Death, the literal dis-integration of the husk of the body, was the grim price exacted by meiotic sexuality. Complex development in protoctists and their animal and plant descendants led to the evolution of death as a kind of sexually transmitted disease.​

​

Lynn Margulis, Symbiotic Planet, p. 90.​

John

Now change the paradigm. Is the living process surviving in the new vehicle (body/mass)? Does the energy (life) actually survive into the next generation?

 

[John D. Brey]

Top line exposes the misunderstood comprehension of nature and adding additional structure to cause. Natures processes existed well before holy and unholy concepts/abstracts of man made descriptions/words.

Myth: a traditional story, especially one concerning the early history of a people or explaining some natural or social phenomenon, and typically involving supernatural beings or events.

Google Dictionary.

I realize that such myths may be developed, and become testable; that historically speaking all----or very nearly all----scientific theories originate from myths . . ..

Conjectures and Refutations, p. 38.

A critical [scientific] attitude needs for its raw material, as it were, theories or beliefs which are held more or less dogmatically. Thus, science must start with myths, and with the criticism of myths . . ..

Conjectures and Refutations p. 50.​

​

John

 

[Elihoenai]

Not because of genetics. Anytime you use the word "genetics/Genetics" it is FALSE. Not TRUE.

The LORD God, the MOST HIGH has setup a system which PLACES a person in the "House of Jacob" Israel. They cannot escape their duty or the consequences of breaking the law of Moses. That placement, their "lot" in life, is sealed. It is ALWAYS and FOREVER.

Pslams 16:5​

​

יהוה מנת־חלקי וכוסי אתה תומיך גורלי׃​

The Lord is the portion of my inheritance and of my cup; you maintain my lot.​

King David: "The LORD God, the MOST HIGH maintains my lot."​

Try to imagine what it would mean if a person could simply escape their duty which is incumbent on "The House of Jacob" ( Israel ) simply by dishonoring it. Does that make sense at all? That makes the person more than God.

Try to imagine what it would be like is a person could simply place themself in "The House of Jacob" ( Israel ) simply by choosing it and not following the method defined by the LORD God, the MOST HIGH to do so? Does that make sense at all? That makes a person more than God.

כל־אלה שבטי ישראל שנים עשר וזאת אשר־דבר להם אביהם ויברך אותם איש אשר כברכתו ברך אתם׃​

All these are the twelve tribes of Israel; and this is it what their father spoke to them, and blessed them; every one according to his blessing he blessed them.​

On Jacob's passing the House of Jacob is sealed.​

דבר אל־כל־עדת בני־ישראל ואמרת אלהם קדשים תהיו כי קדוש אני יהוה אלהיכם׃​

Speak to all the congregation of the people of Israel, and say to them, You shall be holy; for I the Lord your God am holy.​

​

את־חקתי תשמרו בהמתך לא־תרביע כלאים שדך לא־תזרע כלאים ובגד כלאים שעטנז לא יעלה עליך׃​

You shall keep my statutes. You shall not let your cattle breed with a different kind; you shall not sow your field with mixed seed; nor shall a garment mixed of linen and woollen come upon you.​

You shall be holy, no mixing of seed.​

והסירה את־שמלת שביה מעליה וישבה בביתך ובכתה את־אביה ואת־אמה ירח ימים ואחר כן תבוא אליה ובעלתה והיתה לך לאשה׃​

And she shall take off the garment of her captivity, and shall remain in your house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month; and after that you shall go in to her, and be her husband, and she shall be your wife.​

But there is a procedure by law where those who are from the other nations can join the "House of Jacob" ( Israel ).​

Not because of genetics. Anytime you use the word "genetics/Genetics" it is FALSE. Not TRUE.

Can a person that is born of an Israeli mother lose their Israeli Identity by becoming Atheist or an Apostate converting to another Religion?

My salvation comes from the LORD God, the MOST HIGH. Jesus' death has no consequence at all on my salvation. But what he preached could have been true, at times.

Why quote it? Well, if YOU believe it to be true, then YOU cannot deny it. If Jesus revealed himself to the apostles and identified 1 single unified Israel, then YOU cannot deny it, and the debate is over. There is NO spiritual Israel per Jesus.

Regarding moving moutains, that's just to show you show silly it is to declare that some sort of ~magic-trick~ prevents human eyes from reading and understanding letters collected into words on a screen or on a page.

Ephesians 2:11-12

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:


The reason why Yeshua/Jesus has no relevance to your salvation is because you don't understand the Holy Scriptures/Bible. People interpret the Holy Scriptures differently from one another. Any person calling themselves Christian that doesn't Assert Spiritual Israel is Not a Real Christian.

You said: "Christians cannot really understand Judaism because they don't practice the Religion". If that is true then:

There is no "spiritual Israel" because I'm a practicing righteous Jew and you are not. You cannot understand what it means to be "Israel". I don't need to explain it. It doesn't matter what you see, hear, or read. None of that matters.

And.

Jesus was not the messiah, he is not a King. None of the propheicies were fullfiilled. It doesn't matter what you see, hear, or read. None of that matters. The Jewish Messiah, the Future King is defined in Hebrew scripture. I am a righeous practicing Jew and you are not. You cannot understand any of the law or scripture involved in those concepts. I don't need to explain it to you, because you are NOT practicing Judaism.

Does that work for you? I think that's a terrible method.

Yes, I have gathered that it doesn't matter to you what others see, hear or read. That is the reason you cannot have proper discussion with others that you see as Gentiles. This is Orthodoxy taking their Religion seriously. As I stated before, to Really understand a Religion you must be a Devoted Practitioner of that Religion.

That is your opinion. Nothing more.



That is your opinion. Nothing more.

Religious people are on these forums to give their Religious Perspective that Elohim/God has shown them. You are doing the same providing your Opinions/Perspectives through the lens of Judaism.

This picture is irrelevant. I am ignoring it. I would havee deleted it to save space in the post. But I told you I would not do that.



That is your opinion. Nothing more.



This is irrrelevant.



This is irrelevant.

Any intelligent reader on these knows the difference between deleting content from a post and changing the wording of another members post. Other members on these forums sometimes omit parts of my post because they want to focus on a particular aspect of what I wrote or they don't want that content to be seen in their reply. What members don't do is change what I wrote to maker it appear that is what I wrote. When you change the the wording of another members sentences you a are dealing Falsely and breaking the Law of Moses. You may have a different perspective on this believing that it is Lawful to Deal Falsely and Lie to Gentiles, as taught in the Talmud.

Yes, I have gathered that other members perspectives are Irrelevant to you.

The author of the book of Romans says a lot of things. In general, I have found them to be the work of a criminal mind. It states it clearly above: "I am carnal." This is an admission that they do not have self-control of their physical impulses which includes lying, cheating, stealing, etc. There are other places I have noticed the author confesses their inner conflict in spite of their religious faith.

The teachings of Inspired Servant of Elohim/God Paul the Apostle is fundamental to the Christian Faith. If you are not having Inner Conflict your Religion is Not Real. True Religion is Transformational and in Transformational Religion You Must Have Inner Conflict.

I don't think you know the law of Moses. And even if you did, there would be a reason that the LORD God, the MOST HIGH did not place you into a Jewish womb to be brought into the material world. Do you challenge the will of God? Do you subvert its authority?

If you want to be in harmony and compliance with the will of the LORD God, the MOST HIGH, why not go all the way and convert according to ultra-orthodox standards?

From your perspective I don't know the Law of Moses. Elohim/God has given me Moral Standards greater than Ultra-Orthodox Jewish Standards. In Ultra-Orthodox Standards it's Mitzvah to have Sex on the Sabbath and to speak about your Work/Careers on the Sabbath. In Christian Gnosticism this is a Total Corruption of the Sabbath Day.

The difference is, who is choosing the Pope compared to who is choosing the members of the "House of Jacob" ( Israel ).

Who chooses the Pope?
Who chooses the members of the "House of Jacob" ( Israel )?

Elohim/God Ordained and Chose the Pope and Elohim/God Ordained and Chose the members of Israel. There is no difference.

Who has chosen for you to follow the Law of Moses?

Elohim/God has chosen me to follow the Law of Moses. Everything that happens is the Will of Elohim/God and Ordained by Elohim/God.

You said: "Every Christian or Jewish Religious Group Asserts that they are Elohim's/God's Emissary and the others are Imposters."

If you do not know all the groups that assert they are emmisaries, then you would not know if this statement is true or false. Without looking it up, what is the Hebrew word for emissary? If you do not know the word, then you do not know "every" group.

I underlined the word know, because as a gnostic, I would expect that knowing what you do not know would be meaningful for you and cultivate some humility.

I said "without looking it up" because, you made an all-inclusive statement which would require that you already knew the hebrew word for emmissary. But clearly you didn't know it before, and you still don't know it now.

This means you still don't know "every" Jewish group that claims to be an emmissary. I doubt that you know any group which claims that. And it seems clear to me you wouldn't know an imposter. That would require a lot more knowledge than you seem to possess.

I looked up the word Emissary in the dictionary:

emissary

noun,plural em·is·sar·ies.
a representative sent on a mission or errand:
emissaries to negotiate a peace.

an agent sent on a mission of a secret nature, as a spy.

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!

www.dictionary.com

What Jewish Group are you a member of?

If you know all of those ^^ Christian groups, and you know the differences between them, and you know they are not true, then, you can speak truly about those Christian groups. But if you do not know what the Hebrew word for emissary is, then you would not know what you are talking about when it comes to Jewish groups.

You don't know what you don't know.

There is only 1 group that I know of in Judaism that proclaims to have the only truth, and they are, pretty much, outcasts who hide their identity.

Are you a member of this Outcast Jewish Group hiding their identity? This Outcast Jewish Group is the same as Christian Gnostic Outcast in Christendom.

 

[Elihoenai]

Israel is a country, 20% of its citizens are Arabs or Palestinians.

Yes, Israel is a country. Don't you believe that Israel is also the People?

 

[Elihoenai]

If you really wish to understand the ultimate meaning of Jacob/Israel @Elihoenai , you must first understand what the word 'worm' means in the Bible...

Isaiah 41:14
"Fear not, thou worm Jacob, and ye men of Israel; I will help thee, saith the LORD, and thy redeemer, the Holy One of Israel."

Job 17:14
"I have said to corruption, Thou art my father: to the worm, Thou art my mother, and my sister."

How is a worm also a Mother and Sister?

Job 25:6

6 How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm?


***STAFF EDIT*** I have posed the questions to get others to think more deeply about the meaning of Israel. Great post about the Worm to meditate on.

The Mother and Sister is Whoredom.

 

[Elihoenai]

I want to back up @dybmh.

NOT genetics.
NOT religion

There are two ways to be a part of the People of Israel.
1. If your mom is a Jew. So for example, if your father is a Jew, and your mother is not, you are not a Jew. So, obviously, genetics doesn't crack it.

2. If you are adopted into the People via a formal conversion to Judaism. IOW conversion is more than a religious thing, it is being adopted into the People. Ruth was born a Moabite, but died a Jew.

Please do make a new file folder in your mind. Label it "Tribal People," and place within it Lakota, Zulu, Jews... The easiest way to be a Lakota is to be born Lakota. However, on very rare occasions, an outsider will be adopted into the Lakota tribe. The Lakota have a traditional religion. Some Lakota follow this religion. Some do not. Following the religion is not necessary to being part of the tribe. Now go back, and in place of Lakota, use the word Jews.

Yes, I heard you describe the nature of Israel in this way before.

I will ask you the same question that I posed to @dybmh: Can a person that is born of an Israeli mother lose their Israeli Identity by becoming Atheist or an Apostate converting to another Religion?

Concerning Ruth, also remember that Israel had to Overcome the Nations to Become Israel.

 

[Elihoenai]

Obviously not. Was Ruth genetically a Jew? Was Rahab genetically a Jew?

Therefore, by Religious Conversion you can become Israel.

Not really... any more than there is a spiritual or non-spiritual Christian.

*Staff Edit*

Not really. If you are a carnal Christian you are still a Christian... just carnal. None of it "ordained" - it is a condition of the heart. IMV

You have contradicted your previous statement about Non-Spiritual Christian given that a Carnal Christian is a Non-Spiritual Christian. Everything that happens is the Will of Elohim/God and Ordained by Elohim/God.

Have no idea what you are asking. Are you saying that Jewish people did not have any trait of power?

Genesis 32:28

28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.


I posed the question to get readers to think more deeply about the Holy Scriptures in Genesis 32:28 what it means to have Power with Elohim/God and with Men.

 

[Elihoenai]

There is provision in the Torah for outsiders to join Israel if they keep Torah and live among the Israelites.

Yes, I know that you can become Israel by Religious Conversion. I'm posing questions about those Israel born of an Israeli Mother.