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Who Or What Is Israel?

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
The Romans forced the Jews to change their laws so that a person is determined by the female egg rather than the male seed. The Jews had to change their laws and submit to the Romans.
This claim is not historically accurate. Jewish law regarding matrilineal descent—determining Jewish identity through the mother—predates Roman rule. The principle of matrilineal descent is rooted in Jewish tradition and religious texts, and it was not imposed by the Romans.

In Judaism, the concept that a person is Jewish if their mother is Jewish can be traced back to the Mishnah (around the 2nd century CE) and even earlier traditions. This principle is based on interpretations of biblical texts, such as Deuteronomy 7:3-4, which suggests that the offspring of Jewish women remain Jewish, even if the father is not Jewish.

Specifically, it says that taking their daughters for your sons will turn "your children" away from following God. This implies that if a Jewish man marries a non-Jewish woman, the children may not follow Judaism, suggesting a concern with the religious influence of the non-Jewish mother.

This interpretation, even though it's influential, is not explicit and relies on rabbinic tradition and interpretation. The rabbis inferred that the Jewish identity of the child follows the mother because the mother's influence on the child is considered more significant, particularly in the child's early years and upbringing.
 

River Sea

Well-Known Member
Friend @River Sea , please
A good point, kindly quote one's sources, please, right?

Regards

@paarsurrey @IndigoChild5559

What are your thoughts about this article?


Referencing

According to traditional Jewish law (halacha), Jewishness is passed down through the mother. So, if your mother was Jewish, you are too. This position is held by most members of the Conservative and Orthodox communities. The Reform movement recognizes the children of one Jewish parent — mother or father — as a Member of the Tribe if the child is raised Jewish.

But why does traditional Jewish law favor matrilineal descent?

Some people say that Judaism goes by matrilineal descent because we always know who a person’s mother is, and we don’t always know who a person’s father is. However, a person’s status as a priest, Levite, or Israelite is passed down from the father, and such distinctions were of utmost importance in biblical and Rabbinic times (and still, to a certain degree, today). If priesthood can be passed down via one’s father, why not Jewish identity?

Shaye D. Cohen, the Littauer Professor of Hebrew Literature and Philosophy at Harvard University, has written a book and several articles on this issue specifically. Cohen found that matrilineal descent evolved from an original policy of patrilineal descent. In the Torah , a person’s status as a Jew seems to come from his father. Joseph was married to a non-Jewish woman, and his children were considered Jewish. The same was the case for Moses and King Solomon. The change to a policy of matrilineal descent came in late antiquity.


Cohen has two theories about how this came to be. One is that the Tannaim, the rabbis who codified the concept of matrilineal descent, were influenced by the Roman legal system of the time. According to two sources from the end of the second century CE and the beginning of the third century CE, in a marriage between two Romans, a child would receive the status of his father. In an intermarriage between a Roman and a non-Roman, a child received the citizenship status of its mother.

Cohen’s other theory is that the Tannaim developed matrilineal descent from an already existing conclusion about mixed breeding in the animal kingdom. The Torah prohibits the breeding of animals of different species, but there is an opinion in the Mishnah (Kilayim 8:4) that suggests that a mule whose mother was a horse and whose father was a donkey should be allowed to mate with other horses. This implies that “horse-hood” is passed down through the mother, regardless of the father’s species. This concept may have been extrapolated by the rabbis to operate beyond the animal kingdom. Cohen presents both theories, but admits that neither have been conclusively proven.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
The Romans forced the Jews to change their laws so that a person is determined by the female egg rather than the male seed. The Jews had to change their laws and submit to the Romans.
Friend @River Sea , please
A good point, kindly quote one's sources, please, right?

Is it a reference to this practice of Judaism people?
Why did the Ancient Jews and the Romans deplore human sacrifice and outlaw it in their religious and political codes?
Whatever caused the Jews to abhor human sacrifices must have occurred during or shortly after the Babylonian Exile, because we know from the Bible itself that even during the late monarchy human sacrifices were still being performed:
Ezekiel 20:25-26: Moreover I gave them statutes that were not good and ordinances by which they could not have life; and I defiled them through their very gifts in making them offer by fire all their first-born, that I might horrify, them; I did it that they might know that I am the Lord.
It appears that the Persians were opposed to human sacrifices, so perhaps the Jews followed their benefactors in abandoning the former practice.

Regards
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
@paarsurrey @IndigoChild5559

What are your thoughts about this article?

I always think that it is a good thing when an educated historian stirs the pot a bit and suggests that things may be somewhat different than the conventional wisdom. It stimulates discussion, and helps clarify things.

That said, I take issue with some of Cohen's assumptions. The article states that the children of Joseph's wife were considered Jews, as well as Moses and Solomon being examples of the same thing. It neglects to mention that it is assumed Joseph's wife BECAME a Jew ( conversion being the OTHER criteria that can render a person a Jew). As for Moses' foreign wife, it is again assumed that she simply took the Torah upon herself, meaning that she became a Jew. There is a genuine problem with Solomon's idolatrous wives, but I think we can assume that the children of these women assimilated Jewish culture, including Jewish law, making them converts.
 

River Sea

Well-Known Member
When influences cause all. What other words can be used besides influence when it's causing all?

@shunyadragon
Will you please explain how the Romans influenced everyone, not just a few, to change their laws? Why can't Jews choose whether or not their male children are born Jewish? Also, how did this effect AD but not BC? Was this because there were no influences in BC? How do influences cause everyone and not just some? Where is the freedom for Jews to decide whether or not to change the law? My question is how much authority the Romans had over the Jews and what exactly does influence mean.

Cohen has two theories about how this came to be. One is that the Tannaim, the rabbis who codified the concept of matrilineal descent, were influenced by the Roman legal system of the time. According to two sources from the end of the second century CE and the beginning of the third century CE, in a marriage between two Romans, a child would receive the status of his father. In an intermarriage between a Roman and a non-Roman, a child received the citizenship status of its mother.


@IndigoChild5559 @paarsurrey @shunyadragon @Bharat Jhunjhunwala @GoodAttention

More readings from Cohen at academia:


Research paper thumbnail of Shaye J.D. Cohen, *The Beginnings of Jewishness: Boundaries, Varieties, Uncertainties* (Berkeley: University of California Press, 1999)
Shaye J.D. Cohen, *The Beginnings of Jewishness: Boundaries, Varieties, Uncertainties* (Berkeley: University of California Press, 1999)
Download
257 Views
Research paper thumbnail of Morton Smith, *Studies in The Cult of Yahweh*, vol. 2, ed. Shaye J.D. Cohen (Leiden: Brill, 1996)
Morton Smith, *Studies in The Cult of Yahweh*, vol. 2, ed. Shaye J.D. Cohen (Leiden: Brill, 1996)
Download
34 Views
Research paper thumbnail of Morton Smith, *Studies in The Cult of Yahweh*, vol. 1, ed. Shaye J.D. Cohen (Leiden: Brill, 1996)
Morton Smith, *Studies in The Cult of Yahweh*, vol. 1, ed. Shaye J.D. Cohen (Leiden: Brill, 1996)
Download
20 Views

Because I can't completely open them I'll form a question

What is cult of Yahweh compare to only name of Yahweh, is there different types of Yahweh due to people made different types with in there imaginations? What are your thoughts about this?
 
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River Sea

Well-Known Member
Friend @River Sea
As I mentioned Mirza Ghulam Ahmad died in 1908, so personally he cannot teach anyone directly but he did write 80+ books and since he followed Quran, and Quran is there to have answer to all reasonable question. Then he prophesied that he will have successors so now we have a Khalifa-the fifth one, named Masroor Ahmad and under his directions we have an official online website :
From all the above sources I will try/help to answer one's queries/question, right, please?
Thanks for your interest.
@paarsurrey you mention
As I mentioned Mirza Ghulam Ahmad died in 1908,
@Bharat Jhunjhunwala do you know Mirza Ghulam Ahmad?
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was an Indian religious leader and the founder of the Ahmadiyya movement in Islam
Lets see what he looks like

1723050658837.png


from website you shared, @paarsurrey


The Holy Prophet
The Messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets


The life of the Holy Prophet, peace be on him, was a life of grand success. In his high moral qualities, his spiritual power, his high resolve, the excellence and perfection of his teaching, his perfect example and the acceptance of his prayers, in short, in every aspect of his life, he exhibited such bright signs that even a person of low intelligence, provided he is not inspired by unreasonable rancour and enmity, is forced to confess that he was a perfect example of the manifestation of Divine qualities and was a perfect man.

(The Promised Messiah, Al-Hakam, 10th April, 1902, p. 5)

So @paarsurrey and @Bharat Jhunjhunwala
what was Al-Hakam saying and communicating when on the 10 of april of year 1902., what are your thoughts about Al-Hakam, what type of personality did Al-Hakam have?

What was happening during the year of 1902 AD?

There was no Israel then in 1902, Jews lived in many places around the world. So that means this tribe Jews has no land which is what? Means no land. The actual land of Israel is of what land before the Jews was given that land by who?


Jews didn't have any land never. No need to give land to Jews.


How come Jews are given land, just like that for no reason, this makes no sense.

They were people who were from the Yadavas tribe from Indus Valley India who traveled to Isha who is the Krishna God name Brahman.

I learned this from @Bharat Jhunjhunwala

Then later some how the Yadavas changed to Hebrew name, and some how Jews came about and demanded land, how come?
 
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IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
What is cult of Yahweh compare to only name of Yahweh, is there different types of Yahweh due to people made different types with in there imaginations? What are your thoughts about this?
When you include links, you need to please quote what sentences you want to draw our attention to. No one wants to go to the sites, and try to read your mind to know what to look for.

As to your question, are you referring to the cult of Yahweh ben Yahweh? He is a human being who preaches salvation for Blacks.

Most scholars would say that if you go back far enough into the ancient past, the original version of YHWH was a local god, one of many gods, but a god that was preferred. "There are many gods, but YHWH is OUR god." IOW part of a henotheistic culture.

However, that was abandoned long, long ago. Certainly since the Babylonian captivity, the worship of YHWH has been strictly monotheistic, meaning that YHWH is the one and only God. There is no other version of YHWH that exists today, except among the LDS, who revived henotheism.
 
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paarsurrey

Veteran Member
@paarsurrey you mention

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala do you know Mirza Ghulam Ahmad?
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was an Indian religious leader and the founder of the Ahmadiyya movement in Islam
Lets see what he looks like

View attachment 95282

from website you shared, @paarsurrey


The Holy Prophet
The Messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets


The life of the Holy Prophet, peace be on him, was a life of grand success. In his high moral qualities, his spiritual power, his high resolve, the excellence and perfection of his teaching, his perfect example and the acceptance of his prayers, in short, in every aspect of his life, he exhibited such bright signs that even a person of low intelligence, provided he is not inspired by unreasonable rancour and enmity, is forced to confess that he was a perfect example of the manifestation of Divine qualities and was a perfect man.

(The Promised Messiah, Al-Hakam, 10th April, 1902, p. 5)

So @paarsurrey and @Bharat Jhunjhunwala
what was Al-Hakam saying and communicating when on the 10 of april of year 1902., what are your thoughts about Al-Hakam, what type of personality did Al-Hakam have?

What was happening during the year of 1902 AD?

There was no Israel then in 1902, Jews lived in many places around the world. So that means this tribe Jews has no land which is what? Means no land. The actual land of Israel is of what land before the Jews was given that land by who?


Jews didn't have any land never. No need to give land to Jews.

How come Jews are given land, just like that for no reason, this makes no sense.

They were people who were from the Yadavas tribe from Indus Valley India who traveled to Isha who is the Krishna God name Brahman.

I learned this from @Bharat Jhunjhunwala

Then later some how the Yadavas changed to Hebrew name, and some how Jews came about and demanded land, how come?
Al-Hakam, 10th April, 1902, p. 5
"Al-Hakam" was a periodical/news-paper of our Ahmadiyya community/Jamaa`t, its reference has been provided.
 
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shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
@IndigoChild5559 @paarsurrey @shunyadragon @Bharat Jhunjhunwala @GoodAttention

More readings from Cohen at academia:


Research paper thumbnail of Shaye J.D. Cohen, *The Beginnings of Jewishness: Boundaries, Varieties, Uncertainties* (Berkeley: University of California Press, 1999)
Shaye J.D. Cohen, *The Beginnings of Jewishness: Boundaries, Varieties, Uncertainties* (Berkeley: University of California Press, 1999)
Download
257 Views
Research paper thumbnail of Morton Smith, *Studies in The Cult of Yahweh*, vol. 2, ed. Shaye J.D. Cohen (Leiden: Brill, 1996)
Morton Smith, *Studies in The Cult of Yahweh*, vol. 2, ed. Shaye J.D. Cohen (Leiden: Brill, 1996)
Download
34 Views
Research paper thumbnail of Morton Smith, *Studies in The Cult of Yahweh*, vol. 1, ed. Shaye J.D. Cohen (Leiden: Brill, 1996)
Morton Smith, *Studies in The Cult of Yahweh*, vol. 1, ed. Shaye J.D. Cohen (Leiden: Brill, 1996)
Download
20 Views

Because I can't completely open them I'll form a question

What is cult of Yahweh compare to only name of Yahweh, is there different types of Yahweh due to people made different types with in there imaginations? What are your thoughts about this?
To many references and confusion. Many require membership to read.

For simplicity the Mishnah is considered the following:

https://study.com/academy/lesson/mishnah-history-purpose-facts-mishna.html#:~:text=The Mishnah (also spelled Mishna,nucleus of Jewish religious authority.

The phrase "people of the book" has been used to describe the Jewish people for centuries due to their adherence to a strong code of ethics laid out in their sacred texts. The Mishnah (also spelled Mishna) is regarded as one of the most significant Jewish texts since it is a written collection of oral knowledge that can be found within the Talmud, or the central text that is the nucleus of Jewish religious authority. Keeping with the idea of the contents of the text being passed down from generation to generation, the Mishnah's name originates from the Hebrew root which roughly translates to "repeat." It also goes by the name of the Oral Torah, as they are laws and codes that were not originally included in the original written Torah. The main distinction between the Mishnah and the Talmud is simple; the Mishnah is only six basic orders of legal and religious life, while the Talmud consists of both the Mishnah as well as other commentaries and analyses.

Yahweh was originally the Canaanite God of Bronze metallurgy or the smelting furnace God later adopted by the Hebrews as their supreme deity in a henotheistic pantheon of Gods before Judaism became a Monotheistic religion.

I an not sure what you mean by the 'Cult of Yahweh' unless you are referring to the Iron Age Hebrew Pantheon of Gods before 600 BCE, I would not call this cult, but simply the variation of the Canaanite religion of the Hebrews before 600 BCE,
 
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Bharat Jhunjhunwala

TruthPrevails
"Al-Hakam" was a periodical/news-paper of our Ahmadiyya community/Jamaa`t, its reference has been provided.
I am happy to connect with an Ahmadiyya. I'm intrigued why the Ahmadiyya’s are persecuted by the Muslims. It seems the point bone of contention is that Ahmadiyya believes that there will be other prophets after Muhammad. This problem actually can be resolved by going back to the original Quran before Caliph Uthman edited it. My sense is that no prophet glorifies himself in the way that Muhammad is glorified in the Quran. So, it seems to me that Uthman glorified the messenger in the Quran after Prophet Muhammad. So, if we recover the original Quran before Uthman, then maybe this problem can be solved. I would be happy to hear what you think on this. Thank you.
 

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
The phrase "people of the book" has been used to describe the Jewish people for centuries due to their adherence to a strong code of ethics laid out in their sacred texts. The Mishnah (also spelled Mishna) is regarded as one of the most significant Jewish texts since it is a written collection of oral knowledge that can be found within the Talmud, or the central text that is the nucleus of Jewish religious authority.
The book also refers to prophetic insight vi Isaiah and the hadith about the cave of Hira where Muhammad received his revelation. Muhammad as the seal of the prophets relates to the sealed book and Muhammad being pressed like a document is pressed when it is sealed.

And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which [men] deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it [is] sealed:
And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
Isaiah 29:11-12

An Angel came to him and asked him to read. Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) replied, "I do not know how to read." The Prophet (ﷺ) added, "Then the Angel held me (forcibly) and pressed me so hard that I felt distressed.

 

Elihoenai

Well-Known Member
@IndigoChild5559,

What do you think about this video? Do you think these Christians should be Allowed to preach among Jews? Do you consider that the Jewish people Persecuting these Christians are rightfully doing so? What is your position?

Oh Jerusalem, Jerusalem, Jesus wept over #Jerusalem. Persecution, Preaching the gospel #God #israel
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
@IndigoChild5559,

What do you think about this video? Do you think these Christians should be Allowed to preach among Jews? Do you consider that the Jewish people Persecuting these Christians are rightfully doing so? What is your position?
Here are my thoughts on Christian evangelization of Jews here in the US.

I am a typical American Jew with a star spangled heart. Freedom of religion is a very important thing to me, and this includes the right to share one's religion with the intent of spreading it. I personally find Christians evangelizing Jews to be highly irritating, but that's their right.

There are certain exceptions to this rule:

Coercion. I do not think anyone should ever be forced to convert to any other religion. In addition, I think it is corruptive to entice someone with material gains, like giving someone a house or food or money if they convert. In other words NO BRIBERY. This can be pretty tricky. What if a church has a pizza night and invites the community, and the evening includes the usual gospel spiel. Does that cross the line into enticement? I don't think so.

Targeting minors for conversion. A child's religious upbringing is entirely up to the parent. "Sharing the gospel" with a non-Christian kid violates the rights of the parent to raise their child the way they see fit. If two children want to have a religious discussion, that's fine.

Rudeness. No one should have to listen to a missionary if they don't want to. It is similarly rude to interrupt someone otherwise engaged in order to evangelize them. IOW, if someone is shopping, playing with their kids at the park, enjoying the beach, etc., that is not an appropriate time and place for evangelization.

Cultural mores. There is probably many ways the culture of my America and the culture of Israel are different.
  • Here in the US, it is inappropriate to stand on a soapbox in the park and evangelize. The woman in your video who is singing and preaching in a public square would be acting inappropriately in US terms. People would think she was crazy and avoid her.
  • Similarly, while it was once commonplace in the US to knock on doors, Americans now feel perturbed by this.
  • It is inappropriate to talk about religion in the workplace, or any classroom unless it is pertinent to the topic of the class.
  • Generally speaking, in the US, if you are invited someone's home or a public get together, unless you are family or a close friend, religion is not an acceptable topic to bring up.
If you did any of these sort of things in America, people would think you are a jerk and become irritated. I don't know if is the same in Israel or not.

Lying. Finally, it may be legal to lie, but it is deeply immoral. Some groups of Christians pretend to be a form of Judaism in order to snooker Jews into coming to their churches. That's just rotten.


Now let me address what I do know about Israel, which is not very much.

Israeli law supports freedom of religion, including the freedom to proselytize. I does not extend this to coercion, material enticement, or the evangelizing of children.

There are some Israeli Jews who feel that the only religion acceptable in Israel is Judaism. There have been incidents of harassment and vandalism against Christians in Israel that are completely out of line. I am referring to things like spitting on Christians wearing crucifixes and graffiti inside/outside of churches. I think there was even an incident where a church was set on fire. All of this is completely unacceptable, and fortunately the Israeli government does prosecute these things.
 

Elihoenai

Well-Known Member
Here are my thoughts on Christian evangelization of Jews here in the US.

I am a typical American Jew with a star spangled heart. Freedom of religion is a very important thing to me, and this includes the right to share one's religion with the intent of spreading it. I personally find Christians evangelizing Jews to be highly irritating, but that's their right.

There are certain exceptions to this rule:

Coercion. I do not think anyone should ever be forced to convert to any other religion. In addition, I think it is corruptive to entice someone with material gains, like giving someone a house or food or money if they convert. In other words NO BRIBERY. This can be pretty tricky. What if a church has a pizza night and invites the community, and the evening includes the usual gospel spiel. Does that cross the line into enticement? I don't think so.

Targeting minors for conversion. A child's religious upbringing is entirely up to the parent. "Sharing the gospel" with a non-Christian kid violates the rights of the parent to raise their child the way they see fit. If two children want to have a religious discussion, that's fine.

Rudeness. No one should have to listen to a missionary if they don't want to. It is similarly rude to interrupt someone otherwise engaged in order to evangelize them. IOW, if someone is shopping, playing with their kids at the park, enjoying the beach, etc., that is not an appropriate time and place for evangelization.

Cultural mores. There is probably many ways the culture of my America and the culture of Israel are different.
  • Here in the US, it is inappropriate to stand on a soapbox in the park and evangelize. The woman in your video who is singing and preaching in a public square would be acting inappropriately in US terms. People would think she was crazy and avoid her.
  • Similarly, while it was once commonplace in the US to knock on doors, Americans now feel perturbed by this.
  • It is inappropriate to talk about religion in the workplace, or any classroom unless it is pertinent to the topic of the class.
  • Generally speaking, in the US, if you are invited someone's home or a public get together, unless you are family or a close friend, religion is not an acceptable topic to bring up.
If you did any of these sort of things in America, people would think you are a jerk and become irritated. I don't know if is the same in Israel or not.

Lying. Finally, it may be legal to lie, but it is deeply immoral. Some groups of Christians pretend to be a form of Judaism in order to snooker Jews into coming to their churches. That's just rotten.


Now let me address what I do know about Israel, which is not very much.

Israeli law supports freedom of religion, including the freedom to proselytize. I does not extend this to coercion, material enticement, or the evangelizing of children.

There are some Israeli Jews who feel that the only religion acceptable in Israel is Judaism. There have been incidents of harassment and vandalism against Christians in Israel that are completely out of line. I am referring to things like spitting on Christians wearing crucifixes and graffiti inside/outside of churches. I think there was even an incident where a church was set on fire. All of this is completely unacceptable, and fortunately the Israeli government does prosecute these things.
The video shows there are two Christian Evangelists preaching in a public square in Jerusalem Israel. The Children approached the Evangelists as they were walking by and stopped to Persecuted them. It appears that either their parents or their Religious Leaders told them to Persecute the Christians. This is on the Jewish Sabbath when it happened.

There are other videos showing that in Israel Jews don't believe that Christian should have the Right to preach in Israel and the police arrive and stop the Christians. This is because the Preaching Incites the Jews to Hatred, Anger and Violence causing the police to arrive and stop the Christians.


Oh Jerusalem, Jerusalem, Jesus wept over #Jerusalem. Persecution, Preaching the gospel #God #israel
 
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Elihoenai

Well-Known Member
1 Samuel 13:19-22

19 Now there was no smith found throughout all the land of Israel: for the Philistines said, Lest the Hebrews make them swords or spears:

20 But all the Israelites went down to the Philistines, to sharpen every man his share, and his coulter, and his axe, and his mattock.

21 Yet they had a file for the mattocks, and for the coulters, and for the forks, and for the axes, and to sharpen the goads.

22 So it came to pass in the day of battle, that there was neither sword nor spear found in the hand of any of the people that were with Saul and Jonathan: but with Saul and with Jonathan his son was there found.



The Philistines Be Upon Thee Samson/Israel! The Philistines are Upon Christians in Christendom and Upon Jews Binding them. The Philistines make and sharpen Weapons of War for Christians and Jews to Attack and Subdue Israel.


Samson And Delilah Trailer 1949
 
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Elihoenai

Well-Known Member
Isaiah 31:3

3 Now the Egyptians are men, and not God; and their horses flesh, and not spirit. When the Lord shall stretch out his hand, both he that helpeth shall fall, and he that is holpen shall fall down, and they all shall fail together.



Have you Considered that Fleshly Israel/Ethnic Jews and Spiritual Israel/Christians are Not Really Israel? Fleshly Israel and Spiritual Israel are Egyptians!



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640px-Egyptian_Doctor_healing_laborers_on_papyrus.jpg


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Patene-byzantine.jpg
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
It neglects to mention that it is assumed Joseph's wife BECAME a Jew ( conversion being the OTHER criteria that can render a person a Jew).

Some assumptions seem little more than convenient fabrications. Capitalizing a couple of words does little to validate the argument.

As for Moses' foreign wife, it is again assumed that she simply took the Torah upon herself, meaning that she became a Jew.

Just when did this happen, and with what Torah?
 
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