Who Was Baha’u’llah, and How Can We Evaluate His Claims?

[loverofhumanity]

Well, there you go. There's something we can all evaluate and see if what Baha'u'llah has said and done fit with what the Bible says. So, let's go over it again. Where in the Bible does it foretell of Jesus? Then where does it tell of the coming of Muhammad? Then, after you have established that Jesus and Muhammad were both predicted in the Bible, then we can take a look at the verses you say it foretells of the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

For myself I’ve already satisfied myself of the truth of these Prophets through my own investigation which took years of reading, questions and reflection. That is up to each person to do his/her own research to discover the truth of these claims.

To go through them all or even just some of them would not be possible. Also, if it is your own search then only the effort you put into it will reap any gain. There are many sources you can research on the internet.

Various websites point to prophecies about Christ or Muhammad.

But for Baha’is they have known Baha’u’llah by His Self, Writings and Life. His works such as the Book of Certitude are worth reading. But I can only convince myself by doing my own research and only I can ultimately be satisfied that something is true.

The best I can do is suggest some resources that I think are worth studying but then it’s up to you if you want to investigate or not. You are the one that needs to look into the matter if it interests you. I had to do my own search too.

 

[samtonga43]

That's true. We must all strive to see the spirit of our own and other people's scriptures. We can all be wrong. There is nothing wrong with intellectual knowledge, but intellectual is not enough. It skims the surface if it has no heart to it.

I have tried to see the spirit of MrB's writings. I find it impossible.

 

[samtonga43]

You don't accept my apology? Yes, I impugned my own character, too.

I don't accept an apology for something you did not do. You did not impugn my character.

 

[samtonga43]

A person might make a claim for that reason. However, Baha'u'llah suffered for that claim more than He gained

That reply of yours just shows your lack of morality or judgement. Or perhaps that is your attempt o win the argument at all costs, regardless of the truth.

I saw the movie about Nash. I suppose you think that Baha'u'llah believing He is a Manifestation of God is a delusion about something that is imaginary. He also claimed to be able to know and quote from scriptures or other books without reading them or people telling Him those scriptures or books. He said that God revealed them to Him. He could have been lying about that theoretically, but He couldn't have been deluded about that in my opinion. If He was lying, that goes back to motive for His claim. I addressed that above.

I'm interested in why you don't believe he could have been deluded...?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Your belief, though he gave no evidence of there being a God, or Gods promise of sending anyone , or him being the one, that could stand even a priliminary scrutiny.

It’s like this. Just like those with outward sight need no proof of the existence of the sun, those with inward sight clearly see the Suns of Truth. That is why a simple fisherman recognised the station of Christ whereas the learned high priests failed to do so entangled by their rhetoric and theorising.

 

[Aupmanyav]

".. “All the Divine Books and Scriptures have predicted and announced unto men the advent of the Most Great Revelation. None can adequately recount the verses recorded in the Books of former ages which forecast this ..” .."

You quote the socalled divine books of other religions and in the same breath, you say that they are corrupted. Is that not a contradiction.

All so called divine books were created by men, edited, added, substracted, all through the ages. Why should we put our faith in them. Shoghi was selling his family snake oil.

 

[Aupmanyav]

It’s like this. Just like those with outward sight need no proof of the existence of the sun, those with inward sight clearly see the Suns of Truth. That is why a simple fisherman recognised the station of Christ whereas the learned high priests failed to do so entangled by their rhetoric and theorising.

Was Bahaollah a son or even a electric bulb or LED that radiated light. Ignorant, gullible people get impressed by all kinds of quacks, charlatans and even mad men. There used to be one in our neighborhood who always remained silent, torn clothes, ate whatever was given to him in charity, people considered him holy.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Was Bahaollah a son or even a electric bulb or LED that radiated light. Ignorant, gullible people get impressed by all kinds of quacks, charlatans and even mad men. There used to be one in our neighborhood who always remained silent, torn clothes, ate whatever was given to him in charity, people considered him holy.

It’s up to each to decide for himself in these matters.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You quote the socalled divine books of other religions and in the same breath, you say that they are corrupted. Is that not a contradiction.oil.

I personally look for the light in all those holy books, as I am asked to do. Interestingly when one does, the same light of Love and Unity is found.

I would politly suggest that if anyone thinks they have an exclusive scripture and exclusive God/s, that one should look at other scriptures the same way they study theirs.

All so called divine books were created by men, edited, added, substracted, all through the ages. Why should we put our faith in them. Shoghi was selling his family snake oil.

You must choose your own path in these matters.

In regards to your use of the snake oil comment in regards to my chosen faith. I personally see that is a good reflection we should use on our own stances in life, but not offer it to others.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Do you believe in God?

Regards Tony

Which is exactly what we did.
If you accept that we invent our own gods, and that people genuinely believe in them - how do you know that your own is not made-up?

I repeat the question, as any discussion about God, depends upon the answer to that question.

Do you believe in God?

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

In which case, why have there been so many contradictory and conflicting messages?
Why would god deliberately confuse the issue that way and make it look as though he was just made-up in the image of the culture of his creators?

God only looks made-up to atheists who compare all the religions, expecting them to be the same, when there is no logical reason that religions that were revealed to different people in different ages that had varying requirements would be the same.

“The Purpose of the one true God, exalted be His glory, in revealing Himself unto men is to lay bare those gems that lie hidden within the mine of their true and inmost selves. That the divers communions of the earth, and the manifold systems of religious belief, should never be allowed to foster the feelings of animosity among men, is, in this Day, of the essence of the Faith of God and His Religion. These principles and laws, these firmly-established and mighty systems, have proceeded from one Source, and are the rays of one Light. That they differ one from another is to be attributed to the varying requirements of the ages in which they were promulgated.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 287-288

 

[Trailblazer]

What about all those people who met him and didn't conclude he was a messenger of god? What is that "proof" of?

It is proof of free will.
Why would everyone conclude the same thing? That would never be expected.

Free will is simply the will/ability to make choices based upon our desires and preferences, which come from a combination of factors such as childhood upbringing, heredity, education, adult experiences, and present life circumstances. All of these are the reasons why we choose one thing or another.

 

[Truthseeker]

I'm interested in why you don't believe he could have been deluded...?

Think about it.

 

[samtonga43]

God only looks made-up to atheists who compare all the religions, expecting them to be the same, when there is no logical reason that religions that were revealed to different people in different ages that had varying requirements would be the same.

I know of no atheists who expect all the religions to be the same. Where are you getting this idea from?

 

[samtonga43]

Think about it.

I have. I can't read your mind.

 

[samtonga43]

It is proof of free will.
Why would everyone conclude the same thing? That would never be expected.

Free will is simply the will/ability to make choices based upon our desires and preferences, which come from a combination of factors such as childhood upbringing, heredity, education, adult experiences, and present life circumstances. All of these are the reasons why we choose one thing or another.

You base your choice to believe as you do on your desires and preferences?

 

[samtonga43]

It’s like this. Just like those with outward sight need no proof of the existence of the sun, those with inward sight clearly see the Suns of Truth. That is why a simple fisherman recognised the station of Christ whereas the learned high priests failed to do so entangled by their rhetoric and theorising.

Their 'learning' was not the reason the Pharisees rejected Christ.

 

[CG Didymus]

The 950 years is from Genesis. That figure is not in the Qur'an. The quote that begins with "And as often as a company..." is from the Qur'an. The books referred to are not either the Bible or the Qur'an. Perhaps they are commentaries or histories common to the people in Persia. In any case He says " These you must certainly have perused; if not, undoubtedly you will." The traditions are stories that Muhammad or the Imams told that were passed down orally. It's significant that He said "Finally, as stated in books and traditions, there remained with Him only forty or seventy-two of His followers." That indicates He knows of conflicting books and traditions and is citing both the number forty and seventy two. This all indicates the collating of quite an impressive array of sources together in one paragraph. I also point out here that Baha'u'llah wrote the whole Book of Certitude in a couple of days. He didn't have time to look up all the things He cited in that book, and He presented it all in what I find a persuasive and cogent way. Pay attention @KWED!

It's just that some Baha'is make it sound like Baha'u'llah received perfect knowledge about anything he needed directly from God.

 

[Trailblazer]

I know of no atheists who expect all the religions to be the same. Where are you getting this idea from?

Most atheists I have posted to think that religions would be the same if there was a God because God would not reveal contradictory messages... For example:

KWED said: ↑
In which case, why have there been so many contradictory and conflicting messages?
Why would god deliberately confuse the issue that way and make it look as though he was just made-up in the image of the culture of his creators?

 

[Trailblazer]

You base your choice to believe as you do on your desires and preferences?

What I have chosen to believe is based upon my desires and preferences, which come from a combination of factors such as childhood upbringing, heredity, education, and adult experiences. All of these are the 'reasons' why people choose one thing or another.