Who were the Christians? De Santis's GOP or Martha's Vineyard plain folk?

[Colt]

But if illegals do reach your shores, what's the humane answer then? Do you separate children from families, as the Trump administration did (some who will never be re-united again)? Do you summarily ship them back, without worrying whether they face persecution or execution (not our business, really)?

Illegal immigrants happen, and not just in the US. We have them in Canada. They have them in Britain, and in France, and in Germany, Hungary, Turkey, Finland...you name it. And all of those countries, because they are to some extent civilized, at least make an effort to do "the right thing," not just the expedient thing.

Enabling isn’t love. Sanctuary cities and states “encourage” people to make the dangerous attempt to cross the border illegally with the hope that if they can just make it to a sanctuary then they will be hidden in the underground economy.

Americans who are arrested for committing crimes don’t have the luxury of talking their kids with them to jail. Neither do human traffickers pretending to be families.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Christians don't preach undermining immigration laws to begin with. If the insincere Left thought those were future Republicans climbing over the fence, then "suddenly" they would be stricken with common sense and find a spine!

I am sure there are future GOP folks climbing over. Why would we assume they are Dem because they are Hispanic? There are GOP Hispanic folks.

 

[Suave]

We have a process for obtaining work visas and applying for citizenship. Illegal aliens cut in line and ignore the laws. The official count is roughly 14,000,000 unauthorized persons in America. Immigrate

because republicans prefer it? “We simply cannot allow people to pour into the United States undetected, undocumented, unchecked, and circumventing the line of people who are waiting patiently, diligently, and lawfully to become immigrants in this country.” Barack Obama

Our State Department has a plan and has been assisting refugees for ages. Refugee Admissions - United States Department of State

Please let us keep in mind migrant workers could help solve the US labor shortage. The US now has more jobs than it can fill. Fixing the immigration system could boost the economy as well as fix U.S. wage inflation. Hence, please let us consider amnesty to undocumented workers! Bienvenidos a Los Estados Unidos de America! Welcome to the U.S.A.!

 

[sun rise]

I have also learned that the answer isn't "open the borders with no controls". Actually, it is still a bandaid... the answer is to help the countries start businesses. They are filled with vast resources.

I agree but we can't fix the system in those countries. They have to fix their own system and we can then help.

It is also a corrupt political system (as we can see in our own country)

True.

Are you suggesting that terrorists wouldn't take advantage of today's porous borders?

Given how many businesses are having trouble getting employees, if we had a much better legal system that let a lot of people in to fill those jobs, then it would be easier to keep the criminals out.

What I would do is:

• legalize status of "dreamers" who came here on their parents backs
• legalize status of illegals who have had jobs for years (with a fine or something as a penalty)
• Take businesses with high need for employees and allow them to recruit on the border subject to checking for criminals. People after working for some number of years would get green cards.
• Work in improving our ability to keep criminals out with proven effective law enforcement measures (and not a trivial to bypass wall)
• Where possible, offer assistance to those who have a political system that is not utterly corrupt to start businesses where they live.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Updated Estimate of the Number of Illegal Aliens in Florida

• The illegal alien population in Florida is now 950,000 persons. This represents 7.3 percent of the national total illegal alien population, and it is the nation�s fourth largest concentration of illegal aliens after California, Texas and New York. It is also about 5.2 percent of Florida�s overall population.

Illegal Immigration - FL Facts

They aren't just Cubans, of course.

Nobody here is interested in facts. They just want to express outrage about 50 people being sent to a wealthy community... don't confuse us with facts, man!

 

[Kenny]

No, I am just quoting the reality when there is an porous border:

Apparently, in 2021, there were at least 23 illegal border crossers whose identities flagged in the United States' Terrorist Screening Database that archives known or suspected terrorists according to a FOIA request filed by Fox News' Bill Melugin.

Here's How Many Illegal Immigrants Were Suspected Terrorists in 2021

And these are just those that were caught.

Are you suggesting that terrorists wouldn't take advantage of today's porous borders?

How many terrorists did it take to knock down the twin towers?

It's a problem just waiting to happen.

It isn't about "not helping those in need" - it's about make immigration legal and the people being 'VETTED".

My wife's sister had a process to go through to come into the States. My wife had a process to go through to come in legally!

 

[Sheldon]

Christians don't preach undermining immigration laws to begin with.

There are over 200 different Christian sects and denominations in the US alone, so this ludicrous no true Scotsman fallacy speaks for itself. It has long ceased to be a surprise how relentlessly irrational the political and religious ideology of extremists is.

If the insincere Left thought those were future Republicans climbing over the fence, then "suddenly" they would be stricken with common sense and find a spine!

Ah, a poisoning of the well fallacy, and using whataboutism rather than addressing the topic honestly, a clearer sign one's loyalty to a right wing extremist is in fact indefensible hot air, is harder to imagine.

I still marvel at the sheer stupidity of claims that pretend good or bad ideas are the sole domain of one side of the political spectrum, but then that's extremists for you.

 

[Sheldon]

How many terrorists did it take to knock down the twin towers?

It's a problem just waiting to happen.

Do terrorist tend to be foiled by strict immigration policies then? Or is this all too easy and emotive trope a rather lazy ruse to disguise the prejudice of the real target?

 

[Sheldon]

Nobody here is interested in facts.

Not true, though some clearly are not, though one can metaphorically hear the glass panes smashing with that sweeping claim.

They just want to express outrage about 50 people being sent to a wealthy community...

Well if right wing extremists haven't used it all up, where's the harm, or is the much lauded trope of free speech that right wing extremists loudly and freely claim is being denied them, not to be extended to anyone that dares hold a different opinion?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Who wants to keep them out? Isn't that a distortion of the truth? (Lest you need help, the answer is "yes")

Heh... so you don't dispute the hypocrisy, you just have a bit of nuance to add to it.

 

[Kenny]

Do terrorist tend to be foiled by strict immigration policies then? Or is this all too easy and emotive trope a rather lazy ruse to disguise the prejudice of the real target?

Do you leave you front door wide open because a locked door doesn't stop a thief? Are you really serious?

 

[Sheldon]

No, I am just quoting the reality when there is an porous border:

Illegal Immigrants Arrested in FY 2020 Had Average of Four Criminal Convictions or Charges Each, ICE Says
Illegal Immigrants Arrested in FY 2020 Had Average of Four Criminal Convictions or Charges Each, ICE Says

Apparently, in 2021, there were at least 23 illegal border crossers whose identities flagged in the United States' Terrorist Screening Database that archives known or suspected terrorists according to a FOIA request filed by Fox News' Bill Melugin.

Here's How Many Illegal Immigrants Were Suspected Terrorists in 2021

And these are just those that were caught.

Are you suggesting that terrorists wouldn't take advantage of today's porous borders?

In all your excitement you seem to have ignored three separate questions. I'll try bullet points.

1. do you think those demographics tend to pay attention to legal barriers in their way?
2. Do you think all terrorists are necessarily foreign?
3. Do you think the majority of criminals are illegal immigrants?

I can quote your original post where you implied answers to all three with your lazy sweeping stereotyping if it helps. since we both know by now I'll never get an honest answer.

 

[Kenny]

Heh... so you don't dispute the hypocrisy, you just have a bit of nuance to add to it.

I exposed the hypocrisy so, yes, I don't dispute it and added to the reality of what I said.

 

[Kenny]

In all your excitement you seem to have ignored three separate questions. I'll try bullet points.

1. do you think those demographics tend to pay attention to legal barriers in their way?
2. Do you think all terrorists are necessarily foreign?
3. Do you think the majority of criminals are illegal immigrants?

I can quote your original post where you implied answers to all three with your lazy sweeping stereotyping if it helps. since we both know by now I'll never get an honest answer.

#91

So... are you a "no borders one world" believer?

 

[Sheldon]

Do you leave you front door wide open because a locked door doesn't stop a thief? Are you really serious?

Do you step into the street and randomly shoot passers by, lest they want to rob you? See I can use irrational reductio ad absurdum fallacies as well. Now if you for once want to debate in honest good faith, here are the questions I asked, that your sweeping lazy stereotyping provoked.

Sheldon said: ↑
1. Do terrorist tend to be foiled by strict immigration policies then?
2. Or is this all too easy and emotive trope a rather lazy ruse to disguise the prejudice of the real target?

 

[Kenny]

Do you step into the street and randomly shoot passers by, lest they want to rob you? See I can use irrational reduction ad absurdum fallacies as well.

illogical Captain Kirk - apples and oranges. Nice sidestep

 

[Sheldon]

#91

So... are you a "no borders one world" believer?

In all your excitement you missed them again:


1. do you think those demographics tend to pay attention to legal barriers in their way?
2. Do you think all terrorists are necessarily foreign?
3. Do you think the majority of criminals are illegal immigrants?

I can quote your original post where you implied answers to all three with your lazy sweeping stereotyping if it helps. Go on, I'm sure you can debate if you try, well perhaps sure is hyperbole, but I've not given up hope completely.

 

[Sheldon]

illogical Captain Kirk - apples and oranges. Nice sidestep

It was meant to be irrational, as a counter example of your own ludicrous fallacy, but Hoorah, I knew you'd grasp the irrational nature of your claim if I offered a counter example, now go back and see if you can offer something rational, since you obviously know your response was irrelevant guff.

 

[Kenny]

It was meant to be irrational, as a counter example of your own ludicrous fallacy, but Hoorah, I knew you'd grasp the irrational nature of your claim if I offered a counter example, now go back and see if you can offer something rational, since you obviously know your response was irrelevant guff.

No... your position is unsupportable. Try again. You don't leave you door open and you don't leave your borders open.

Are you a no borders, one world type of person?

 

[Colt]

There are over 200 different Christian sects and denominations in the US alone, so this ludicrous no true Scotsman fallacy speaks for itself. It has long ceased to be a surprise how relentlessly irrational the political and religious ideology of extremists is.



Ah, a poisoning of the well fallacy, and using whataboutism rather than addressing the topic honestly, a clearer sign one's loyalty to a right wing extremist is in fact indefensible hot air, is harder to imagine.

I still marvel at the sheer stupidity of claims that pretend good or bad ideas are the sole domain of one side of the political spectrum, but then that's extremists for you.

The Left doesn't want to offend its base, that's why they aren't motivated stop illegal immigration.