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Who Would This Person Be Within Hinduism

Satyamavejayanti

Well-Known Member
"wizanda, post: 4796930, member: 1032"

Namaste,

There are both concepts of Heaven & Hell in Hinduism.

There are Many differing concept of Swarga in Hinduism, but even your link does not provide sufficient evidence that Brahman resides in Heaven which is your claim of Heaven.

None take Avatar from Swarga, which is your claim.

There are many differing concepts of Naraka in Hinduism, even the types of Naraka and the quantities are vastly different. The idea that this world is Hell (Which is your claim) is not present in the many opinions about Naraka, Naraka is punishment after death is not consistence with your idea that we are almost in hell.

PS: I dont really know how true these claims are, so I don't believe in Hell or Heaven, or actual Narak/Swarag as described in the Links.

The terms Dharma & Maya are both from their origins; it isn't like I've changed their meanings, just got allot i add to their interpretation, based on experience.

Your Interpretation as Dharmah being a "Way to Heaven" is not agreeable with the Contextual nature of Dharmah as we can see from the Link. You interpenetrated Maya as simply delusion, judging from the link there is more to Maya then just being delusion. Maya is still a topic of debate among Hindus.

Many past lifes; yet in this one was born that way.

Past life does not constitute as being a Karma, Being Born according to Sanskara of Past Life is not the concept of Avatara, if this were so, Then everyone is a Avatara and we have 7 billion (and counting) Kalk Avataras roaming the planet. Avatara is not a everyday occurrence (like being born).

So the question remains open.

What is the Karma that you have performed that enables you to assume your Avatar-hood?

There are numerous religions with this same ideology.

It only seems to be "The same", but once we delve into the particulars of ideas the sameness disappears and becomes simply a coincident.
 

Satyamavejayanti

Well-Known Member
So if they were sent from Heaven, to try and explain/fight against the great deception that has been placed over the planet.
They were asked to read all the religions, and make a place that from it peace would spread.
Then after there will be a mass destruction, and then renewal of the reality as we know it, where those deemed worthy will be resurrected into a time of enlightenment, and Godliness.
Who would that be within a Hindu ideology, please? :innocent:

Namaste,

After this discussion, i think i now comprehend your original question more clearly.

Correct me if im wrong with my assessment, IMO what you were initially looking for was a conformation that the description you provide is compatible with the theory of Avatar in Hinduism, therefore you can be justified in claiming your Avatar-hood, because you think that the experience you have had needs to be justified by external sources and textual evidence from a tradition that may seem to be compatible with your experience but is outside the Abrahamic realm. In turn you received no support or agreement, but then are trying to relate your experience and ideas with the ideas and concepts in Hinduism.

It seems that you have already concluded that you are a Avatar when asking this question and starting the Thread, but required some authentication from Hindus.

The idea that you are a Messenger and Not Avatar is self evident when you describe that you have been to heaven because of NDE and you are simply relaying the information that your acquired from coming into contact with Brahman in heaven, which is contradictory to the concept of Avatar but for some reason you consider yourself a Avatar by assuming that because you have had a NDE and "Came back from Heaven", that this validates your Avatar-hood.

Your idea that Avatar comes from heaven which is equivalent to the idea of the messenger of God, hold no ground when we investigate your claims of your Avatar-hood.

Simply assuming that Avatar means being sent by Brahman from Heaven is not going to cut it with knowledgeable practicing Hindus in this forum (Now im not claiming that I am one of these Knowledgeable Hindus).

Now when we have provided many contradictions and assumptions and even some incorrect notions that you seem to hold about Hinduism, you are seemingly convinced that we (As Practicing Hindus) are simply not aware or as if we are intentionally not even trying to agree with your conclusion. I would love to be in agreement, I do admire your intention of Oneness but in reality the basis of this needs to conform to our Hindu-Reality, and by means of Parmanas we all Hindus should be able to replicate your experience of NDE to confirm that we all are capable of being Avatar before we can even say that we think it is valid.

Claiming Avatar is not a small claim in Hinduism, not even the previous so called Avatars had made any such claims, so it is really hard for Hindus in general to just accept any claim (although to many non Hindus it may seem that Hindus accept any outlandish claims), this and any other such extraordinary claims require (As the famous Carl Sagan put it) extraordinary evidence, and for Hindus this would mean a practical method available and tested that can be practiced by anyone to get the similar experience such as Yoga ect.

Finally, as many have said from the beginning of this thread, there is no ideology within Hinduism similar to your claim.

Dhanyavad
 

Madhuri

RF Goddess
Staff member
Premium Member
I'm much less sure about this, though. To be sure, the Vedas had a major influence on the development of many Hindu traditions. But arguably, a variety of 'indigenous' local/popular traditions also had a significant influence. So too did the Śramaṇa traditions, which seem to have had distinct origins from those of the historical Vedic religion.

Sramana philosophy seems to be linked to or have origins in Vedic scripture though.
There's no doubt that indigenous traditions have influenced the practice of Hinduism in various area, even overseas (Bali, Nepal etc) but my point is simply that what makes a religion 'Hindu' is it's connection to the Vedas (even if it's deviated through other influences).
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Sramana philosophy seems to be linked to or have origins in Vedic scripture though.
There's no doubt that indigenous traditions have influenced the practice of Hinduism in various area, even overseas (Bali, Nepal etc) but my point is simply that what makes a religion 'Hindu' is it's connection to the Vedas (even if it's deviated through other influences).

Hinduism people are connected to Vedas like Judaism people and Christian people are connect to Torah or like Zoroastrian people are connected with Gathas. Right?

Regards
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
You really shouldn't assume so much, as even on what I've written you've seriously muddled it up.
Brahman resides in Heaven which is your claim of Heaven.
Braman resides in ultimate reality, in the highest dimensions of pure consciousness, at the very source of all creation, like a CPU manifesting reality.
The idea that this world is Hell
We're between Heaven and Hell, with Hell below us; it is just we're closer to Hell than Heaven, with the very matter we see around us made from it.

The idea that here has been taken over by demons is also recognized about Kali Yuga, etc.
Dharmah being a "Way to Heaven"
Said 'Dharma is the way of Heaven', thus to even ascend out of here, we must follow Dharma.
You interpenetrated Maya as simply delusion
Maya is a 3D graphics program, that is used in the Matrix to make the reality we see around us; yet it isn't real, it is a virtual reality system.
It only seems to be "The same"
There is a metaphysical realm, and there is a physical realm, we've all tried describing the same things globally; if not, then some of the religions are just making stuff up.
what you were initially looking for was a conformation that the description you provide is compatible with the theory of Avatar in Hinduism
Nope, i wanted to see how argumentative Hindu people are, when we can show from texts partially what is to occur.
therefore you can be justified in claiming your Avatar-hood
I'm not interested in justifying it to anyone really, was just interested to see if people got it from what is written....Or if what was written, would hep clarify our role, with any additional information to understand it better
because you think that the experience you have had needs to be justified by external sources and textual evidence from a tradition
By checking all religions globally, seeing if it is possible to unite them under a single focus, and from that create world peace; if not, then the divine is said to just be removing everyone who doesn't already get it.

As for me and fulfillment of prophecy, there are already clearer references in other texts, and my faith is in my experiences, even if my experience does fit exactly with other prophetic text.
It seems that you have already concluded that you are a Avatar when asking this question and starting the Thread, but required some authentication from Hindus.
I've known since 4/5 years old, without anyone around me who could have taught me this info; I've had advanced knowledge of metaphysics, recognize souls from past lifes, known many people's karma, had advanced knowledge of many religious texts, etc.

The truth is I've been testing all religious groups over 12 years online, seeing if you share certain things with them, what results do you get, and how adharmic are they.... So far all have failed. :(
you consider yourself a Avatar by assuming that because you have had a NDE and "Came back from Heaven", that this validates your Avatar-hood.
My NDE only validated what i knew as a child, and i knew my mission then; plus fulfilled Revelations chapter 10, had numerous encounters with the divine interacting with this realm, i don't need to validate anything, which is why i don't mind sharing it, and seeing how people react.
we all Hindus should be able to replicate your experience of NDE to confirm that we all are capable of being Avatar before we can even say that we think it is valid.
That isn't just Hindus who do that, everyone is like that now a days; people are all looking for how it suits them, and have very little respect for someone claiming to be divine.
there is no ideology within Hinduism similar to your claim.
After reading much of the text for myself now, found that an illogical conclusion, found numerous websites trying to substantiate what i asked from multiple different perspectives....

Yet thank you for showing me i will get the same skeptical results from Hindus, the same as any other religion.

Peace :innocent:
 
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Madhuri

RF Goddess
Staff member
Premium Member
Hinduism people are connected to Vedas like Judaism people and Christian people are connect to Torah or like Zoroastrian people are connected with Gathas. Right?

Regards

I suppose so. Its also hard to say since Hinduism isn't a single religion. So some will put more emphasis on the Vedas compared with others.
I, for example, see the Vedas as a Muslim would see the Quran.
 

The_Fisher_King

Trying to bring myself ever closer to Allah
Premium Member
Sramana philosophy seems to be linked to or have origins in Vedic scripture though.

Maybe, maybe not.

my point is simply that what makes a religion 'Hindu' is it's connection to the Vedas

I'm not sure all Hindus would agree with that.

even if it's deviated through other influences

That is your opinion, of course. It may be that some Hindus feel that their religion has 'deviated' through Vedic influences.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
We're between Heaven and Hell, with Hell below us; it is just we're closer to Hell than Heaven, with the very matter we see around us made from it.
The idea that here has been taken over by demons is also recognized about Kali Yuga, etc.
It is wrong concept to think Heaven and or Hell to be a physical place/location or space, it is another dimension that has nothing to do with the physical and material time or place. In absolute sense there is neither time nor place. It is wrong to say the Heaven is above us or Hell is below us. Heaven is above us in status or a thing positive and hence described above us, the same way Hell in a thing negative so it is described incorrectly below as, otherwise there is no above or below in absolute terms.
The same way there is no going to heavens while one is alive, it is just going to the absolute place/location/space spiritually never physically. Right?Please
Everybody to correct themselves, please, no compulsion however.
Regards
 

Satyamavejayanti

Well-Known Member
"wizanda, post: 4798120, member: 1032"

Namaste,

You really shouldn't assume so much, as even on what I've written you've seriously muddled it up.

I am sorry for that, but being a thread where we are reading each other rather then having a verbal, we are unfortunately assuming a lot about each other, this is the limitation of texts in general.

Braman resides in ultimate reality, in the highest dimensions of pure consciousness, at the very source of all creation, like a CPU manifesting reality.
We're between Heaven and Hell, with Hell below us; it is just we're closer to Hell than Heaven, with the very matter we see around us made from it.
The idea that here has been taken over by demons is also recognized about Kali Yuga, etc.
Said 'Dharma is the way of Heaven', thus to even ascend out of here, we must follow Dharma.
Maya is a 3D graphics program, that is used in the Matrix to make the reality we see around us; yet it isn't real, it is a virtual reality system.
There is a metaphysical realm, and there is a physical realm, we've all tried describing the same things globally; if not, then some of the religions are just making stuff up.

Obviously we have already been over these topics, and to me your assumptions are inconsistent in many regards, but i would like to let you have your opinion as i have mine.

Nope, i wanted to see how argumentative Hindu people are, when we can show from texts partially what is to occur.

Well this was not clearly identifiable from your original post.

I'm not interested in justifying it to anyone really, was just interested to see if people got it from what is written....Or if what was written, would hep clarify our role, with any additional information to understand it better

This is my deduction from the conversation, if you don't think this is correct then i was incorrect to say you needed justification.

I've known since 4/5 years old, without anyone around me who could have taught me this info; I've had advanced knowledge of metaphysics, recognize souls from past lifes, known many people's karma, had advanced knowledge of many religious texts, etc.
The truth is I've been testing all religious groups over 12 years online, seeing if you share certain things with them, what results do you get, and how adharmic are they.... So far all have failed. :(

Thank you for confirming my observation.

My NDE only validated what i knew as a child, and i knew my mission then; plus fulfilled Revelations chapter 10, had numerous encounters with the divine interacting with this realm, i don't need to validate anything, which is why i don't mind sharing it, and seeing how people react.

Thank you for confirming my observation.

That isn't just Hindus who do that, everyone is like that now a days; people are all looking for how it suits them, and have very little respect for someone claiming to be divine.

Not everyone would look for Avatar hood as this is a Hindu specific claim. But i understand what you mean.

After reading much of the text for myself now, found that an illogical conclusion, found numerous websites trying to substantiate what i asked from multiple different perspectives....

Well hope the Hindu perspective in this thread has been helpful.

Yet thank you for showing me i will get the same skeptical results from Hindus, the same as any other religion.

Within Hindu Traditions being skeptical about claims is actually considered a virtue, even Krishna says to Arjun something like "to think about what I have said (In the Gita) and then to make your own decision, before you take any action", and not just believe what someone says, even if that someone is a Avatar.

Dhanayavad for the conversation.
 

Madhuri

RF Goddess
Staff member
Premium Member
Maybe, maybe not.

Seems pretty clear that this is the case.

I'm not sure all Hindus would agree with that.

That is your opinion, of course. It may be that some Hindus feel that their religion has 'deviated' through Vedic influences.

It is my opinion based on the information I have. What would you say is the common factor that binds all these religions under the one umbrella?

That is your opinion, of course. It may be that some Hindus feel that their religion has 'deviated' through Vedic influences.

I'm not saying that indigenous religions weren't deviated through Vedic influence. I'm only commenting on what connects all of these religions.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Maybe, maybe not.

I'm not sure all Hindus would agree with that.

That is your opinion, of course. It may be that some Hindus feel that their religion has 'deviated' through Vedic influences.

I'm not sure where you're getting your information from, but I agree with Madhuri on all counts here. BTW, just where are you getting your information from? I don't realy think non-Hindus sources with hidden agendas of belittling Hinduism are valid sources of information.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Dharma comes from Heaven, thus it is essential for being in Heaven ..
Such long posts. How is one to cross these oceans of words. Dharma is for the individual, for the society. Is there a heaven, or hell? Is there a God? And what about Jinns, Angels, fallen angels, Nephelim, the off-springs of Angels and humans. No, I do not understand this.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Sramana philosophy seems to be linked to or have origins in Vedic scripture though. .. but my point is simply that what makes a religion 'Hindu' is it's connection to the Vedas ..
Beg to differ. There were no 'sramanas' in RigVeda. It is an indigenous practice. And Vedas are a part of Hinduism and not the whole of it, there is much more other than Vedas.
.. with Hell below us; ..
Where is above and where is below? The earth is spherical.
There is a metaphysical realm, and there is a physical realm, ..
There is only one realm. In that realm, people understand things in different ways.
By checking all religions globally, seeing if it is possible to unite them under a single focus, and from that create world peace; if not, then the divine is said to just be removing everyone who doesn't already get it.
Peoples dreams of dictatorship. Hindus are happy with variety. Not practically possible. 'Divine' too is peoples' imagination. Prophesy is for Nostradamus.
.. So far all have failed. :(
Good, that should be the end of your posts.
.. and have very little respect for someone claiming to be divine.
I, actually, hate people who claim to be divine. Either charlatans or ignorant.
 
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Madhuri

RF Goddess
Staff member
Premium Member
Beg to differ. There were no 'sramanas' in RigVeda. It is an indigenous practice. And Vedas are a part of Hinduism and not the whole of it, there is much more other than Vedas.

I didn't say Sramana was in Rig Veda. But the Sramana does hold some of the same concepts and terms that features in the Vedas and considering it's history, I'd be very surprised if it wasn't at least a little influenced by Vedas.

I also didn't say that the Vedas are the whole of Hinduism. It's simply what seems to link the different Hindu religions together under the umbrella term. Hence why Jainism, Buddhism and some others are not classified as Hindu.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
They had poets, rishis, teachers, priests in RigVeda, but no 'sramana', mendicants, sadhus.
The same way there is no going to heavens while one is alive, it is just going to the absolute place/location/space spiritually never physically. Right?
There is no heaven or hell to go to. What constitutes us will remain here.
It may be that some Hindus feel that their religion has 'deviated' through Vedic influences.
It has definitely deviated from that. And that is no problem. Aryans were immigrants, they merged with the indigenous. In the process there was give and take on both sides. Both sides accepted the changes, and the results have been good for thousands of years. It was like sugar in milk.
 
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Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Not all. Some did, most still wander as Hindus. The Śramaṇa tradition includes Jainism of 9th-century BCE, Buddhism of 6th-century BCE, and others such as Ājīvika, Ajñanaand Cārvāka. (Wikipedia)
Note: It is not that there are no others, but it is the Naga (naked) sadhus who are most photographed. Nagas are just one of the ten religious orders in Hinduism.

kumbh-mela-photo-essay-body-image-1442494880.jpg
 
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wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
Dhanayavad for the conversation.
Thank you as well, been fascinating. :innocent:
Where is above and where is below?
In dimensions, the lowest dimensions are dense consciousness or matter; the highest is pure consciousness or Oneness.
There is only one realm. In that realm, people understand it in different ways.
'People' haven't ever been to the metaphysical realm, as you have to be without matter to be there. ;)
Good, that should be the end of your posts.
Oh come on, some of my posts have been alright. :brokenheart:
 
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