Whose 'logic' is it anyway?

[idav]

You're right; it short-circuits intelligence. The omniscient entity will achieve its goals in the most optimum fashion possible; which defeats the point of having intelligence.

(IOW, intelligence - the ability to predict the future through inference - is unnecessary, since intelligence has some possibility of being wrong. )

To be more specific omniscience would entail knowing the now, intelligence would mean being able to analyze the now to predict the future. I don't think knowing the now to mean you would have a preference for what comes next and having the power wouldn't help that either unless it was sought after.

 

[idav]

Curious, did I move the goal posts wide enough?

 

[muhammad_isa]

And for an omnipotent, omniscient creator, there is no such thing as an unintentional design...

Quite .. this life is no accident .. it's imperfect, yes .. elementary, my dear Watson

 

[mr black]

Quite .. this life is no accident .. it's imperfect, yes .. elementary, my dear Watson

The creator created imperfect creations, and intends punishing them for their imperfections. Hooray

 

[Thief]

The point is that people have all sorts of delusions. Saying that you believe something is in no way evidence that it is so. Even if everyone believed something, it could still not be true. So, saying one believes something cuts no ice at all and might as well be omitted.

In a way, it is insulting as it is assuming unearned authority.

The pharisees said the same thing about the Carpenter.....thank you.

And your stance on belief is no more than denial?
with a continual...'prove it'?

By definition ...faith requires no proving.

But to say I lack logic, that I believe in God?....nay

 

[muhammad_isa]

The creator created imperfect creations, and intends punishing them for their imperfections. Hooray

Rather juvenile attitude, don't you think?
I assume that you're being sarcastic..

No point in putting your hand in the fire, is there .. might get burnt .. blaming it on to God will not change the situation :candle:

Most of the suffering that mankind experiences is due to ourselves, individually and collectively..
Patience is a virtue .. not easy, no, but nevertheless ..
.. you can't escape from the consequences of reality, whether you deem them as fair or not

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Rather juvenile attitude, don't you think?
I assume that you're being sarcastic..

It's an accurate assessment even so

 

[Koldo]

Rather juvenile attitude, don't you think?
I assume that you're being sarcastic..

No point in putting your hand in the fire, is there .. might get burnt .. blaming it on to God will not change the situation :candle:

Most of the suffering that mankind experiences is due to ourselves, individually and collectively..
Patience is a virtue .. not easy, no, but nevertheless ..
.. you can't escape from the consequences of reality, whether you deem them as fair or not

--->Define the process of 'purification' so i can tell you.
What does it mean to be 'purified'?
You seem to have a particular definition that strays very far from mine, otherwise, i don't think you would have said what you did.<---

Someone once said: ".. you can't escape from the consequences of reality, whether you deem them as fair or not".

 

[mr black]

Rather juvenile attitude, don't you think?
I assume that you're being sarcastic..

No point in putting your hand in the fire, is there .. might get burnt .. blaming it on to God will not change the situation :candle:

Most of the suffering that mankind experiences is due to ourselves, individually and collectively..
Patience is a virtue .. not easy, no, but nevertheless ..
.. you can't escape from the consequences of reality, whether you deem them as fair or not

Well actually I was summarising some peoples beliefs, I think their recorded in the bible and quran if you want to look.
Due to ourselves, created by your god, well if you're right that is.
It may have been someone else's god.

 

[Muffled]

]What's the difference in simply believing in God vs. Simply believing in unicorns?[/COLOR]

Similarly do you simply believe in Ganesh? Or just God? Or are they the same?

I can't experience unicorns but I can experience God.

I don't know anything about this.

 

[idav]

I can't experience unicorns but I can experience God.

When we can't see what it is affecting us we can't really say for certain what it is.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I can't experience unicorns but I can experience God.

I don't know anything about this.

What do you mean by "I can experience God"? The only way I can take this is "I can experience things I attribute to God", which would seem to make the key difference here your personal preferences about what you like to attribute things to.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Someone once said: ".. you can't escape from the consequences of reality, whether you deem them as fair or not".

Well .. can you? I suppose that you're one of these people who are "whiter than white" and don't get burnt by fire..

.. what's all this about a purification process .. a spiritual one, you mean?

 

[Muffled]

The atheist talk of logic in trying to explain away God ,Religion or Spirituality is a moot point.

Whose logic are we talking about here - God's or human's?

What may seem logical to us is only so because we only understand our own logic.

Think of a tribe comprised of children - their leaders would make the rules based on their own logic - to them it would all be commonsense and correct yet an adult could easily prove them wrong.

How about animal logic? - would a human be able to tell the leader of the Wolf Pack the correct way to do things, and how could a human possibly know anyway?

The same is true of God.

Statements such as 'the concept of God defies logic therefore it is just a delusion' are erroneous as they are based on the logical fallacy of human logic being correct.

God exists otherwise how else can you explain anything?

I agree with a later poster; the rules of logic are the same for God as they are for anyone else.

In this argument the premise is false therfore the conclusion is false also.

A concept of God is not illogical. That would be like saying the concept of the Moon is illogical.

How do we know the concept of the moon is logical? Because we can detect its reality. How do we know the concept of God is logical. Because we can detect His reality.

 

[PolyHedral]

How do we know the concept of the moon is logical? Because we can detect its reality. How do we know the concept of God is logical. Because we can detect His reality.

His "reality" is inconsistent; this implies some portion of the reasoning involved is wrong.

 

[Koldo]

Well .. can you? I suppose that you're one of these people who are "whiter than white" and don't get burnt by fire..

.. what's all this about a purification process .. a spiritual one, you mean?

You don't remember what you were talking about?

You said there is a logical contradiction in God purifying someone who doesn't want guidance. What do you mean by this 'purification'?

 

[9Westy9]

I can't experience unicorns but I can experience God.

That's going to annoy a few followers of the invisible pink unicorn

 

[muhammad_isa]

You said there is a logical contradiction in God purifying someone who doesn't want guidance. What do you mean by this 'purification'?

OK .. this is in the context that God could have put us all in heaven to start with, and not put us through all these worldly trials .. yes?

So what's the point of this reality? Is it just that a righteous person should be made to suffer by an evil person?
We can only understand concepts that have some sort of 'reflection' in this world .. some souls are righteous and some aren't .. by definition .. God created us with the choice to be "good or bad"..

Yes .. He could have made us all so that we were unable to do bad .. but He didn't .. He's given us that responsibility.
So the responsibility of purification is not just on Almighty God, it's dependant on our souls co-operation .. unless of course, He changes the nature of our souls .. makes us into 'zombies'

Enough .. you probably don't agree..

 

[mr black]

OK .. this is in the context that God could have put us all in heaven to start with, and not put us through all these worldly trials .. yes?

So what's the point of this reality? Is it just that a righteous person should be made to suffer by an evil person?
We can only understand concepts that have some sort of 'reflection' in this world .. some souls are righteous and some aren't .. by definition .. God created us with the choice to be "good or bad"..

Yes .. He could have made us all so that we were unable to do bad .. but He didn't .. He's given us that responsibility.
So the responsibility of purification is not just on Almighty God, it's dependant on our souls co-operation .. unless of course, He changes the nature of our souls .. makes us into 'zombies'

Enough .. you probably don't agree..

But you're happy to be a zombie in heaven, you won't be able to choose right from wrong then? And that will be for eternity, not just four score and ten.

 

[Thief]

But you're happy to be a zombie in heaven, you won't be able to choose right from wrong then? And that will be for eternity, not just four score and ten.

And some people think this is true of angels.
Winged creatures of great speed and strength....with swords in hand.

If they have no sense of choice....