Why are Indians not more outspoken more about racism in India?

[Epic Beard Man]

Also you must be joking if you belief Westerner whites do not face racism from Indians or Chinese. They do and with as much frequency as it is the other way round. I am yet to come across a culture where there does not exist extremely negative stereotypes and swear words against every other group/race/ethnicity.

True whites do face racism, but being white globally is more palatable than being black African or African-American. I would love for you to try and contradict that fact.

 

[Shad]

I've brought up racism in the United States before people just hate discussing it although people like to discuss the redundant issues of religion. I bring up racism in India because it needs to be discussed. Just because racism happens across the world it doesn't change the fact that it shouldn't be discussed. I've encountered racism from Sikhs and Hindus while shopping at these convenience stores. I've already read about the experiences of Africans in India I'm perplexed at the idea of how a people that is as dark as my skin pigmentation can exhibit the same racism as some of their white counter-parts. Why is it reprehensible than African cannot marry an Indian woman but a white person can? Why do Indians look poorly on black Africans and Americans? These are things that perplex me considering that these people are as dark and even darker than me.

You expectation of how people think based on skin colour is false. You could pick from a number of influences from direct interaction to common stereotypes to media to answer your question.

True whites do face racism, but being white globally is more palatable than being black African or African-American.

Positive racism is still racism

 

[sayak83]

Because it perplexes me that people who are classed as minority in the states, suffer from similar racial stereotypes, exhibit the same racial aggression as those that impart the same racism on them? I can ask about the same colorism that exists in the African-American community but it has always perplexed me as a kid and even as an adult why such occurs. I've also an Indian co-worker with dual citizenship and I've asked why. Apparently my friend "A" states that Africans and African-Americans are perceived poorly in his country, I assumed due to colonialism. But this perception continues to persist. As per the links I've supplied African students are also experiencing some unfortunate incidents of racism in India so it does matter.

More African students stay here as students than from Western nations. But the racism is faced by them too. See below,
French tourists molested, thrashed in UP; 4 locals held - Times of India

 

[sayak83]

True whites do face racism, but being white globally is more palatable than being black African or African-American. I would love for you to try and contradict that fact.

The situation is not that way in India. Also poor Eastern European white women are sexually exploited a lot in the global sex slavery trade.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

You expectation of how people think based on skin colour is false. You could pick from a number of influences from direct interaction to common stereotypes to media to answer your question.



Positive racism is still racism

If it's false prove it. Also, again it does not change the fact that whites from a global point of view have a more positive presentation than blacks.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

The situation is not that way in India. Also poor Eastern European white women are sexually exploited a lot in the global sex slavery trade.

I'm curious are you Indian? Do you currently live there?

Also can you explain this?

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www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/is-india-a-racist-country/article17854153.ece

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/art...-students-echo-indias-long-history-of-racism/

BTW we are not talking about the exploitation of white women we are discussing the subject but nice try in devaluing the importance of discussing racism in India.

 

[Shad]

If it's false prove it.

This very thread proves it. You held X view. You found that X view is not applicable in China (another thread) and India. Ergo the idea was wrong.

Also, again it does not change the fact that whites from a global point of view have a more positive presentation than blacks

I never argued otherwise. I pointed out it is positive racism is still racism.

 

[Kirran]

A lot of it is, as has been touched upon, related to the relationship with lighter skin colour common across many South Asian cultures. This may be partly due to demographic factors (i.e. dominant tribes at certain times would have been pale-skinned) and partly due to economic factors (i.e. the rich kids wouldn't be out working in the fields so they'd stay pale). Plus stereotyping etc being picked up from other cultures over the last few centuries. So yeah, there isn't much of a conversation regarding it in India and Pakistan. @sayak83 will hopefully comment on this point, but I think there is a fairly common tendency among Indian people to bring up points in discourse like 'Why are you pointing at the problems here?! You/they also have problems!' I don't know where this comes from, and it's by no means universal or unique. But it does perhaps make it a bit harder to look at these kinds of things. (sayak, I just saw another post as I was typing, and I'd like to clarify that I'm not saying you're doing this)

R.e. Gandhi - at the time Gandhi was talking about black people as has been mentioned, he was also somebody who was against the equality of Dalits. It is hardly unreasonable to think that he changed his views on racism as well as on Dalits.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

This very thread proves it. You held X view. You found that X view is not applicable in China (another thread) and India. Ergo the idea was wrong.



I never argued otherwise. I pointed out it is positive racism is still racism.

I posited evidence by the author of a book coming out about Gandhi.....Try again.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

A lot of it is, as has been touched upon, related to the relationship with lighter skin colour common across many South Asian cultures. This may be partly due to demographic factors (i.e. dominant tribes at certain times would have been pale-skinned) and partly due to economic factors (i.e. the rich kids wouldn't be out working in the fields so they'd stay pale). Plus stereotyping etc being picked up from other cultures over the last few centuries. So yeah, there isn't much of a conversation regarding it in India and Pakistan. @sayak83 will hopefully comment on this point, but I think there is a fairly common tendency among Indian people to bring up points in discourse like 'Why are you pointing at the problems here?! You/they also have problems!' I don't know where this comes from, and it's by no means universal or unique. But it does perhaps make it a bit harder to look at these kinds of things. (sayak, I just saw another post as I was typing, and I'd like to clarify that I'm not saying you're doing this)

R.e. Gandhi - at the time Gandhi was talking about black people as has been mentioned, he was also somebody who was against the equality of Dalits. It is hardly unreasonable to think that he changed his views on racism as well as on Dalits.

So what does the history of Indians have to do with the treatment of Africans who currently live there?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I'm really interested if someone who is of Indian descent that lives there can shed some light on the topic.

 

[sayak83]

I'm curious are you Indian? Do you currently live there?

Also can you explain this?

Subscribe to read

www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/is-india-a-racist-country/article17854153.ece

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/art...-students-echo-indias-long-history-of-racism/

BTW we are not talking about the exploitation of white women we are discussing the subject but nice try in devaluing the importance of discussing racism in India.

I am saying something very clear and succinct. There are racist people in India. They are racists not only against blacks, but also against whites and often against Indians from other states or different castes/religions. Their racism often lead to targeted abuse and violence against all these groups , which I condemn unconditionally. These are facts. I have no problem accepting any of that. No reason why I should have a problem either. The issue I am having with you is that you somehow believe its only against the blacks. That is not the case.

Next, any and all racist attacks are hate crimes and needs to be severely punished. No arguments. Indian police and justice system is byzantine. Hence I recommend fast track courts to be set up throughout India to specifically investigate and prosecute hate crimes. If such an initiative is taken up I can support it with donations and signature campaigns. As a professor in a university, I have vested interests in making international students secure in India. But I am a very junior professor yet, with time, I may be able to do more. Maybe initiate a cultural and racial sensitization course that is obligatory for undergrads in my university.

Is that a reasonable response?

 

[sayak83]

@Epic Beard Man @Kirran

This very recent news analysis would be of interest. Rest assured caste discrimination is vigorously discussed in India constantly.

Dalit Anger: Beyond 'Diluted' Law?

 

[Kirran]

So what does the history of Indians have to do with the treatment of Africans who currently live there?

Well it's history which produces the current situation. That's where these negative stereotypes about black people which enough Indians subscribe to to make life hard for many Africans living in India come from.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

An interesting article according to the Hindu:


Remnants of the past

Some of this has to do with colonial discourses which have seeped into India: for instance, the 19th century racist European association of Africa with cannibalism. After all, the mobs that attacked Nigerian students in Noida recently were ‘convinced’ that the Africans had ‘cannibalised’ an Indian student, who reportedly died of drug overdose.

Similarly, the groping and verbal sexism that many blonde women tourists encounter is partly the result of bad Hollywood films and similar trash, through which ordinary urban Indians encounter the ‘West’. Knowing porn and not Plato, triteness and not Twain, their reactions to Western women are essentially sexist and racist. This is exacerbated by the tendency in many conservative circles, so surprising given our proclaimed spirituality, to consider the material covering a woman’s body to be an indication of her soul and morality!

 

[Vinayaka]

Excuse the misspelling. But this is bigger than Gandhi really because Indians are still practicing racism against African students.

African victims of racism in India share their stories

Yes, I've seen this before. Not a huge story compared to attempted genocides. Remember Rwanda? That was African against African. Two same race communities absolutely despising each other. But if you want to focus on it, go ahead.

Here in Canada we have surcharges in education for foreign students, and temporary foreign workers take a beating in many regards, like labour rights. It matters not where they come from. Does that mean Canada is racist?

 

[sayak83]

I'm really interested if someone who is of Indian descent that lives there can shed some light on the topic.

Now regarding black racism,
https://theithacan.org/columns/african-vs-african-american/

In elementary school, I was bullied by other kids for wearing traditional Somali clothing, bringing home–cooked meals for lunch and smelling of uunsi — a staple incense Somalis use to fragrance their home. My tormentors would refer to me as “smelly African,” “nappy–headed,” “African booty scratcher,” and tell me to “go back home.” I became embarrassed to engage in any cultural activities that called the slightest attention to my ethnicity. The most bewildering aspect of it all was the fact that some of my bullies were other black students who seemed to attack me because of cultural differences. We share the same skin color — shouldn’t you be on my side? I always wondered.

Because of this bullying on the part of other black students, I began to seriously question facets of my cultural and racial identity. These are immensely complex topics that I can discuss endlessly. For that reason, I want to focus specifically on the rift between African versus African-American identities, an aspect I’ve struggled with profusely.

As an immigrant from Kenya born to Somali parents, I have seen firsthand the divide between African immigrants and African-Americans. .....





The problem is that people in US has made racism a problem of skin color. It isn't, it never was. Any differences whatsoever that identifies you as a separate individual can trigger racist aggression against you.

 

[sayak83]

An interesting article according to the Hindu:


Remnants of the past

Some of this has to do with colonial discourses which have seeped into India: for instance, the 19th century racist European association of Africa with cannibalism. After all, the mobs that attacked Nigerian students in Noida recently were ‘convinced’ that the Africans had ‘cannibalised’ an Indian student, who reportedly died of drug overdose.

Similarly, the groping and verbal sexism that many blonde women tourists encounter is partly the result of bad Hollywood films and similar trash, through which ordinary urban Indians encounter the ‘West’. Knowing porn and not Plato, triteness and not Twain, their reactions to Western women are essentially sexist and racist. This is exacerbated by the tendency in many conservative circles, so surprising given our proclaimed spirituality, to consider the material covering a woman’s body to be an indication of her soul and morality!

Final point regarding distance between Indian immigrants and African Americans is their very divergent trajectory in the US society. Indian immigrants have quickly established themselves as the richest of all immigrant groups in US . Racial discrimination has not hindered their rise in society. Their avg median income is $100,000. While the median income of all US is $53,000 and that of black Americans $39,000. Indian immigrants have had it extremely good, despite their skin color and hence many have difficulty in understanding and empathizing with the very genuine racial grievances of the colored Americans.

 

[Amani_Bhava]

I've brought up racism in the United States before people just hate discussing it although people like to discuss the redundant issues of religion. I bring up racism in India because it needs to be discussed. Just because racism happens across the world it doesn't change the fact that it shouldn't be discussed. I've encountered racism from Sikhs and Hindus while shopping at these convenience stores. I've already read about the experiences of Africans in India I'm perplexed at the idea of how a people that is as dark as my skin pigmentation can exhibit the same racism as some of their white counter-parts. Why is it reprehensible than African cannot marry an Indian woman but a white person can? Why do Indians look poorly on black Africans and Americans? These are things that perplex me considering that these people are as dark and even darker than me.

Racism is deplorable but sad fact is it still exists in much of the world including India.

Since you asked for an explanation I am providing you with one. Kindly do not think that it is my way of thinking or that I condone it in anyway whatsoever. If I go over to US ever .. I will be more than happy to have a beer with you and shoot pool.

Your perplexity at how people as dark skinned as you can exhibit same racism as whites is matched by their perplexity at how people (that is African Americans) born amidst so much wealth and opportunity are the poorest (average income $38,555 per annum poorest income group in USA) while Indians who arrive there stone poor buy a house and send children of to college quite easily (average income $115,200 per annum single wealthiest income group in USA).

List of ethnic groups in the United States by household income - Wikipedia

The general idea most Indians in US have of blacks is that they are lazy, listen to rap music, consume drugs and are trouble makers.

It is a stereotype that has been prolonged due to black music videos and media

This is US ambassador to United Nations, Nimrata Randhawa from Amritsar Punjab whom you know as Nikki Haley.

US Indians are justifiably proud of her and other successful Indians ..

While Indians lean into US mainstream, African American blacks give themselves strange names like JaMarcus and Da'Shwan (why the apostrophe?) and lean away from US mainstream

Tell me after they watch this video what idea an average Indian American should have about black culture in USA? Answer me truthfully .. considering that for most Indians (here and abroad) getting an A in math and attending a good university is the only goal worth having.

Indians are not being racist towards you inspite of being darker than you .. they are leaning towards the mainstream .. and you are mistaking that as racism.

Since there are lot of Indians who are CEOs of massive companies (Google, Microsoft, PepsiCo, Adobe etc) and who work at highest level in every well known company, bank and universities .. Indians quite rightfully feel that they have made it into US mainstream in 21st century after working their butt off for 50 years. Why would they want to mingle with people who have cornrow hairstyles or want a wife whose sister is called Shabooboo?

(You asked for the explanation so I gave it .. it pained me no end to write it)

About African blacks in India .. it is shameful that people visiting India have been at the receiving end of racism. But I believe it happens only in some parts of India where people are strange in some ways (no other way to put it). Any black is most welcome to Bengal, the most liberal state in India. Several black stay in my locality (students who also play football). No one ever disturbs them.

You are mistaken that it happens only to blacks in India .. it happens to everybody. People from the North Eastern states are persecuted too since they look like the Chinese. We are persecuted too when we drink whiskey at a pub accompanied by a woman wearing sleeveless top. We have our fair share of mentally retarded (living in the Indian equivalent of US Bible Belt)


namaste

A_B

 

[Jumi]

Indians are not being racist towards you inspite of being darker than you .. they are leaning towards the mainstream .. and you are mistaking that as racism.

It's not a mistake if mainstream is teaching them. Sometimes the mainstream IS racism and promulgates it.