Why are some people obsessed with race, gender, and generation ?

[Rival]

Multiculturalism was the beginning of hyphenating your status as an American. African, Asian Latino etc etc etc. Suddenly your culture superceded being an american. Difficult cultures different rules. For some cultures being on time was a suggestion not a requirement so expecting people to be in town me was "culturally" insensitive. Not offensive yet but insensitive". In other cultures looking someone in the eyes was considered disrespectful so expecting eye contact was considered culturally insensitive. Notice how things have descriptors now. "Social" justice. "Hate" crime. "Gay" rights, "trans" rights, "women's" rights, etc etc etc.

Dividing instead of uniting.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Multiculturalism was the beginning of hyphenating your status as an American. African, Asian Latino etc etc etc. Suddenly your culture superceded being an american. Difficult cultures different rules. For some cultures being on time was a suggestion not a requirement so expecting people to be in town me was "culturally" insensitive. Not offensive yet but insensitive". In other cultures looking someone in the eyes was considered disrespectful so expecting eye contact was considered culturally insensitive. Notice how things have descriptors now. "Social" justice. "Hate" crime. "Gay" rights, "trans" rights, "women's" rights, etc etc etc.

Okay.

 

[McBell]

This isn't helpful.

Really?
Why not?

Could you at least answer my question?

Sure.

 

[Ignatius A]

Goodbye

So if you made your living stealing the life savings of old people I shouldnt think less of you? I didnt say that's what you do but your upset with me because I wouldn't think very highly of person who did make their loving that way? Something is very wrong with the moral compass of like these days. The only evil these days is not acquiescing to everybody's wishes.

 

[Rival]

Really?
Why not?

Sure.

This obtuse posting style is annoying and it's not a good look.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I'm finding this thread interesting.

A lot of folks here are saying this obsession comes from the right, when, as a member of 'the right' I just see us as responding to those on the left who are using identity as a marker (be it gay, disabled, etc.) and those of us on the right only want to stop hearing about how you're gay or disabled.

And then what of contexts where it is necessary to talk about being gay or disabled in order to tackle specific issues related to either?

It's the left which has these horrible parades which are all about sex and sexualities, not the right; we want those out of sight, shut down.

How many Pride parades are "horrible," though? Also, as far as I know, not all people who attend Pride parades are leftists, nor do all right-wing people want to shut them down. If someone doesn't care what someone's sexual orientation is, it seems to me that wanting to shut down their Pride parade comtradicts the "not caring" part.

It's the left who want children to be able to transition from one sex to the other.

I lean left on many issues and know many other people who do, and the above doesn't accurately describe how the majority of us see things. You objected to overgeneralizations about the right, and I agree that they're unhelpful. By the same token, overgeneralizations about the left are no less unhelpful.

The right is just responding and saying no, these things shouldn't be happening.

I don't see this as representative of the full picture either. Legal and social discrimination against various groups still exists in many conservative countries and is also endorsed by many right-wing groups. I would say that many on the left sometimes go too far in trying to correct perceived, historical, or actual wrongs, but I also think that much of this overcompensation originates from a reaction to various forms of persecution and abuse.

Many right-wing groups try to influence legislation against certain groups and deny them their rights. I wouldn't describe them as the "right" because I think that would be an overgeneralization, but they exist, have been influential far too often and for far too long, and have harmed many people. They're not just saying, "These things shouldn't be happening"; they're saying, "These things shouldn't be happening, and we will make sure to legislate against them and impose our beliefs on everyone who disagrees."

So I'm not sure where some of this 'it's the haters' rhetoric is coming from.

I don't think either that or "it's the left" is helpful or nuanced.

We want to shut most of it down and not hear about it again.

Shut down? Would you find it acceptable if someone wanted to shut down religion and not hear about it again, or if someone wanted to cancel religious ceremonies because they found them "horrible"?

I think tolerance is a two-way street. I don't exactly enjoy hearing religious speeches condemning people like me and saying we deserve Hell, but I believe they should be protected as freedom of speech. I don't want to shut them down; I just don't want their underpinning beliefs imposed on me through legal or social coercion.

 

[McBell]

This obtuse posting style is annoying and it's not a good look.

How is answering you question an "obtuse posting style"?

 

[Ignatius A]

This obtuse posting style is annoying and it's not a good look.

Some posters here are plain.

 

[Ignatius A]

Dividing instead of uniting.

Precisely. Someone on this thread said love was looking for similarities while hate was look for differences. Fascinating isn't it?

 

[Rival]

How is answering you question an "obtuse posting style"?

Beeecauseeee you didn't asnwer my question?

What does it mean for gays to be equal?

 

[Debater Slayer]

Multiculturalism was the beginning of hyphenating your status as an American. African, Asian Latino etc etc etc. Suddenly your culture superceded being an american. Different cultures different rules.

Arguably, the US has been multicultural for the vast majority of its existence. Do you think Dutch and Irish immigrants to the US had the same culture, or that the British settlers and Native Americans had the same culture? Immigrants are and have always been firmly embedded in the history, accomplishments, and development of the US. I don't see why that's supposed to be some sort of negative thing now.

 

[Rival]

And then what of contexts where it is necessary to talk about being gay or disabled in order to tackle specific issues related to either?



How many Pride parades are "horrible," though? Also, as far as I know, not all people who attend Pride parades are leftists, nor do all right-wing people want to shut them down. If someone doesn't care what someone's sexual orientation is, it seems to me that wanting to shut down their Pride parade comtradicts the "not caring" part.



I lean left on many issues and know many other people who do, and the above doesn't accurately describe how the majority of us see things. You objected to overgeneralizations about the right, and I agree that they're unhelpful. By the same token, overgeneralizations about the left are no less unhelpful.



I don't see this as representative of the full picture either. Legal and social discrimination against various groups still exists in many conservative countries and is also endorsed by many right-wing groups. I would say that many on the left sometimes go too far in trying to correct perceived, historical, or actual wrongs, but I also think that much of this overcompensation originates from a reaction to various forms of persecution and abuse.

Many right-wing groups try to influence legislation against certain groups and deny them their rights. I wouldn't describe them as the "right" because I think that would be an overgeneralization, but they exist, have been influential far too often and for far too long, and have harmed many people. They're not just saying, "These things shouldn't be happening"; they're saying, "These things shouldn't be happening, and we will make sure to legislate against them and impose our beliefs on everyone who disagrees."



I don't think either that or "it's the left" is helpful or nuanced.



Shut down? Would you find it acceptable if someone wanted to shut down religion and not hear about it again, or if someone wanted to cancel religious ceremonies because they found them "horrible"?

I think tolerance is a two-way street. I don't exactly enjoy hearing religious speeches condemning people like me and saying we deserve Hell, but I believe they should be protected as freedom of speech. I don't want to shut them down; I just don't want their underpinning beliefs imposed on me through legal or social coercion.

Sure.

I am speaking for those on the right to whom I listen on podcasts and other platforms. I also agree that it's not all leftists in such places, but I think if polled 90% or so would be. I'm objecting to the parades because most of them contain things that at any other time of the year would see one arrested for public indecency in many places and I find that a decent objection. It's not just that I find them gross, I find the idea of children and those under 16 being there incredibly problematic, bordering on child abuse. For those under 12 or so, they don't need to be learning about sexuality, BDSM and so on. I believe many people agree and psychologists would agree that exposing children to this is incredibly problematic.

I also did generalize, for which I apologize.

I also don't want to pass legislation that would ban anything. I'm quite happy with what we have.

My problem is with people being indecent in public and doing what I and many others see as child abuse.

That's basically it.

 

[Banach-Tarski Paradox]

I'd substitute "oligarchy" for "patriarchy"

We've all been brainwashed by the Oligarchy.

To me, when you say "patriarchy", that's yet another identity politics game

Women’s history is not for the squeamish.

There’s a reason why the gundamentalist is so afraid of Women that he barged into a discussion of Women’s history and called on the authorities to shut it down.

 

[Viker]

Dividing instead of uniting.

If we hadn't already been divided we'd likely be united. I didn't divide myself out from the rest of society. Society decided that for me early on. I didn't want that. I've always wanted inclusion. Always. I've always wanted to be one of "us" not one of "them". I thought it would always be an uphill struggle. It's a mountain apparently.

 

[McBell]

What does it mean for gays to be equal?

Oh I don't know, simple things like marriage come to mind.
adoption also pops to mind right off the top of my head.

 

[Rival]

If we hadn't already been divided we'd likely be united. I didn't divide myself out from the rest of society. Society decided that for me early on. I didn't want that. I've always wanted inclusion. Always. I've always wanted to be one of "us" not one of "them". I thought it would always be an uphill struggle. It's a mountain apparently.

What do you see as current issues which are stopping your being included?

For instance, same-sex marriage has been legalized; transsexuals have legal recognition and protections, they can get hormones and so on on their insurance in the US. Here the NHS covers such things usually.

What would you like to see in order to improve upon this?

 

[Rival]

Oh I don't know, simple things like marriage come to mind.
adoption also pops to mind right off the top of my head.

Both are available here.

Same-sex couples in the United Kingdom (not including Scotland) have had the right to adopt since 2002, following the Adoption and Children Act 2002.

Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Act 2013. In 2013, Parliament passed the Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Act which introduced civil marriage for same-sex couples in England and Wales.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Those are hideous right? They might even show pride in their country and not their proclivities.

Patriots don't show pride by being paranoid, armed bafoons looking for an excuse to start shooting. So many of those fake RW cardboard cutout "patriots" don't even know or follow the Flag code, so they can shut the hell up about their tin facade of patriotism.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Sure.

I am speaking for those on the right to whom I listen on podcasts and other platforms. I also agree that it's not all leftists and such places, but I think if polled 90% or so would be. I'm objecting to the parades because most of them contain things that at any other time of the year would see one arrested for public indecency in many places and I find that a decent objection. It's not just that I find them gross, I find the idea of children and those under 16 being there incredibly problematic, bordering on child abuse. For those under 12 or so, they don't need to be learning about sexuality, BDSM and so on. I believe many people agree and psychologists would agree that exposing children to this is incredibly problematic.

I agree that children shouldn't be exposed to BDSM, displays of sexuality, etc. Where I disagree is in the idea that this is widespread across Pride parades. I haven't seen evidence that most Pride parades allow children to attend BDSM displays or expose them to such things.

I also did generalize, for which I apologize.

No worries; I understand that it can happen in these heated debates. That's why I tend to prefer not to assume the worst intentions on others' part when I know generalizations are not their usual MO.

I also don't want to pass legislation that would ban anything. I'm quite happy with what we have.

My problem is with people being indecent in public and doing what I and many others see as child abuse.

That's basically it.

No disagreement on these things.

 

[icehorse]

I lean left on many issues and know many other people who do, and the above doesn't accurately describe how the majority of us see things. You objected to overgeneralizations about the right, and I agree that they're unhelpful. By the same token, overgeneralizations about the left are no less unhelpful.

In your opinion, do people on the left ever go too far? If so, any examples?

I think the far left ends up helping the right in many cases, because our opponents on the far right can take advantage of the far left promoting silly or divisive ideas