Why are we allowed to suffer?

[Demonslayer]

That they are free to choose that path, but should probably try to help.

I agree.

Probably can't help everyone, but stil

But what if they could!? What if there was...um...like a really super powerful person who could help everyone? And chose not to.

Our society does not reward people much for preventing/solving suffering...

What would you say about someone who would prevent suffering only if given a reward?

And I don't know if I agree, the person who cures cancer is going to be one rich SOB.

 

[viole]

In which case I'll get back to my original question. What is wrong with suffering?

Nothing, under the assumption that inflicting it is not wrong either. Is the assumption ok?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Demonslayer]

In which case I'll get back to my original question. What is wrong with suffering?

You're going to look at Viole's example of a guy who sees a baby being tortured and ask what's wrong with that?

What's wrong with torturing a baby? Is that the question you're asking? Or more accurately, what's wrong with seeing a baby being tortured and doing nothing?

What's wrong with that?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

You're going to look at Viole's example of a guy who sees a baby being tortured and ask what's wrong with that?

What's wrong with torturing a baby? Is that the question you're asking? Or more accurately, what's wrong with seeing a baby being tortured and doing nothing?

What's wrong with that?

Torture is bad. Now what is wrong with suffering. Please notice they are two different words with different meanings.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

I agree.



But what if they could!? What if there was...um...like a really super powerful person who could help everyone? And chose not to.



What would you say about someone who would prevent suffering only if given a reward?

And I don't know if I agree, the person who cures cancer is going to be one rich SOB.

Show me this super-powerful person...I'm aware of a number of super-rich people who might be able to do something about suffering, and some who are not so rich but who do have political and social influence, and seem to create more suffering or are limited in their efforts to ease or eliminate it...

I don't think the structuring of society to encourage people to end suffering is necessarily much about reward, or punishment...it's more about what is valued in the society...so far as American culture is concerned, I think that it's pretty much set up on a model of everyone suffers...

As for the SOB who cures cancer, it's pretty clear that there isn't just one answer for cancer, but that there is a lot of money to be made researching and treating but not curing cancer...and why exactly should someone get to become wealthy for curing a disease, for ending suffering (perhaps)...isn't that kinda like ending suffering only if there is a reward involved? Maybe they should cure the disease because it's the right thing to do?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Nothing, under the assumption that inflicting it is not wrong either. Is the assumption ok?

Ciao

- viole

No.

 

[viole]

No.

So?

Ciao

- viole

 

[sandy whitelinger]

So?

Ciao

- viole

All I ask is that you explain to me what is wrong with suffering. So it's day two and the best anyone has implied is that it is self evident. If it is so obvious it should be easy to explain yet no one has.

 

[viole]

All I ask is that you explain to me what is wrong with suffering. So it's day two and the best anyone has implied is that it is self evident. If it is so obvious it should be easy to explain yet no one has.

I don't know, but it is not what interests me. What interests me is how can inflicting what is not wrong, be wrong.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Demonslayer]

Show me this super-powerful person...

I'll give you a hint...he's got a white beard and lives in the clouds.

As for the SOB who cures cancer, it's pretty clear that there isn't just one answer for cancer,

Well that's very true, cancer was probably a bad example.

and why exactly should someone get to become wealthy for curing a disease, for ending suffering (perhaps)

Yeah I think so, or just for doing a good job at their job maybe? If my job is to research cures for disease and I find a cure for one, shouldn't I get some sort of bonus at least?

isn't that kinda like ending suffering only if there is a reward involved? Maybe they should cure the disease because it's the right thing to do?

Sure I completely agree, I was just commenting on your statement that society doesn't reward people for alleviating suffering. If anything it's the opposite...not enough people try to alleviate suffering for no reason other than because they can.

But this spun off the rails a little...I was speaking metaphorically more than anything to get at the idea that God could end suffering if he wanted to, but refuses to.

 

[Demonslayer]

Torture is bad.

Why is torture bad?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Everything. I have struggled with depression and my life has lost all joy and meaning. You don't realize just how much my life has been taken away from me.

Thus isn't ment to be disparaging, but you really do it to yourself. It takes awhile to realise it though.

 

[Demonslayer]

Now what is wrong with suffering.

Answer the question first, only let's replace torture with suffering for a second.

You see a baby lying in a ditch with fire ants stinging it. The baby is screaming.

You walk on by because, after all, there is nothing wrong with suffering? Perhaps the baby will grow up stronger because of this incident?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Kind of reminds me of Spartan childrearing.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

I'll give you a hint...he's got a white beard and lives in the clouds.

But this spun off the rails a little...I was speaking metaphorically more than anything to get at the idea that God could end suffering if he wanted to, but refuses to.

Well, that assumes a certain kind of deity, one that I'm willing to consider as a possibility, but I frankly see no certainty that there is. A universal omnimax deity is well outside of my ability to comprehend, so positing that such a deity would do this or that is just...well...speculation...I was going to use another term, but...

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Why is torture bad?

It's a violation of personal property rights.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Answer the question first, only let's replace torture with suffering for a second.

Torture is a different definition suffering so replacing words is not the answer it is actually the problem here.
If it's not obvious that I will be derailed by the changing of the subject let me say, I'll not be derailed by the changing of the subject. Asking me questions does not answer mine.

 

[Sleeppy]

We are here to question, to learn, and to grow. It's apparent.

• We're all cut from the same cloth, i.e. space-time.
• We're all travelers within the evolutionary process.

Suffering is both a gift and a curse. It inspires us, from the evolutionary standpoint, to explore, to discover, and to gradually inhabit the immensity of space-time.

 

[Demonslayer]

It's a violation of personal property rights.

LOL, that's the reason you give for torture being bad? Trespassing is a violation of personal property rights. Torture is a lot worse than cutting across the corner of someone's lawn.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

All I ask is that you explain to me what is wrong with suffering. So it's day two and the best anyone has implied is that it is self evident. If it is so obvious it should be easy to explain yet no one has.

<sigh>
Here is an exchange between me and you on page 2 of this thread:

You: What is wrong with suffering?
Me: What's wrong with suffering is that it's unpleasant, by definition.
You: Why is unpleasant wrong?
Me: Drop a brick on your foot and it will quickly become apparent.

Which bit don't you understand?