Why can't Lucifer ever be redeemed?

[Luciferi Baphomet]

If only we had the free will to choose free will, right?

Um I guess lol.

 

[Super Universe]

You have not stated what this standard of determination is though.

I've probably studied them more than you, and based on the lack of evidence I do not accept the story of Soddom and Gomorah, so I cannot even believe in it. However, according to Bible, god deliberately destroyed them because of their wickedness. It wasn't presented as a random or mysterious event, but rather an event that happened shortly after a "righteous" man offered his daughters to a mob for gang raping. The Bible makes no discernment between the destruction of S/G and the wickedness of S/G.

I have not stated what the standard of determination is? I guess I haven't. Plausibility. Is a meteor actually a fireball from heaven or an asteroid that got caught in the Earth's gravity? There is nothing you could say to a tribe to make them believe that rocks can come from the sky and they are not sent by "spirits" or their god.

The bible says that God deliberately destroyed Soddom and Gomorrah because of their wickedness? Oh, well then that has to be the case. It couldn't possibly be anything else, I mean, if it's in the bible then it has to be true. Those Jews knew everything.

 

[Ingledsva]

I used the name Jesus? I'm sure I did. So, you define Christianity as Abrahamic, but, didn't Jesus arrive about 1,000 years after Abraham existed?

I did not come up with that designation. The religions of Abraham are the Jewish, Christian, and Islamic. They All claim Abraham.

The UB uses the whole Abrahamic story? Really? I didn't know Abraham proposed that Adam and Eve were really angels and that humans evolved from lower life forms. And, if Abraham knew about the many levels of the universe and the many different angels, well, he left that out. And he left out the part about the Lucifer Rebellion too.

They used the Abrahamic religion's characters, and story, and added more fantasy to it.

Even history books include information about Jewish history, that doesn't make them "Abrahamic".

Oh my! See above. And put Abrahamic religions into your search and see what it says.

UB 119:7.5 ...the Jewish baby, was conceived and born into the world just as all other babies before and since...

What is your point here? I already told you what pages 1344-1347 say. "To you, Mary, I bring glad tidings when I announce that the conception within you is ordained by heaven." Page 1346.

The UB writer had too much indoctrination of Abrahamic religion when they wrote Urantia? So, a guy from the 1950's received "Abrahamic" indoctrination from somewhere that gave him 1,800 pages worth of information on the God the Sevenfold, God the Ultimate, God hte Absolute, the Trinity, the Eternal Son, Personality, Spirit-Gravity, the seven Bestowal's of Jesus, Universe Reflectivity, the Unqualified Absolute, Divinington, Sonarington, Spiritington, Life in Havona, the Seven Superuniverses, the Architeture Spheres, the Eternal of Days, the Ancient of Days, and much more that I have not mentioned? Wow, I must have missed all of those things in the Old Testament. What pages are they on?

That is correct. The Bible itself is over a thousand pages. And of course all kinds of Gnostic info. The guy was an ex-preacher. All he and friends had to do was sit down, start at the beginning, and add their own ideas and fantasy to it.

SkepticFiles says that a preacher named Sadler wrote it? That might be true. Are you under the impression that the validity of information is determined by the validity of the source?

The source always comes under contention when competent minds peruse such content.

*

 

[Ingledsva]

I have not stated what the standard of determination is? I guess I haven't. Plausibility. Is a meteor actually a fireball from heaven or an asteroid that got caught in the Earth's gravity? There is nothing you could say to a tribe to make them believe that rocks can come from the sky and they are not sent by "spirits" or their god.

The bible says that God deliberately destroyed Soddom and Gomorrah because of their wickedness? Oh, well then that has to be the case. It couldn't possibly be anything else, I mean, if it's in the bible then it has to be true. Those Jews knew everything.

Wow! You don't seem to be able to discern the difference between people that don't believe in the Bible, and are arguing with you over what the TEXT says, and people arguing with you, - that believe the text.

She said she didn't believe in the S&G story.

*

 

[Luciferi Baphomet]

*Ok, you keep believing that.

Oh I will.

Glad you asked. Hell was never created for people, it was created for the devil and his angels (Satan and his demons).

So you say huh? Doubt that.

Because Satan was successful at deceiving Adam and Eve to sin against God in the garden, he was successful in placing every human being in a sinful state the moment we are born.

It wasn't about him deceiving them.
Since the tree was called "The tree of knowledge of good and evil" Lucifer wanted Adam and Eve to eat the apple since it meant knowledge.
To be honest if Lucifer hadn't done that well knowledge would sure not exist today.

Satan knew, that because of what he did, every human being was now destined to spend eternity in hell which was his goal, to destroy Gods creation because he hates God and we are created in the image of God, therefore he hates us as well.

I do not see that as his goal for us to suffer.
What he wants is to free us from god's slavery.

But God foiled Satans plan by having His one and only Son Jesus manifest Himself as a human being through a virgin birth, live a sinless life, died on the cross and in doing so, He paid the debt for our sin problem and then raising Himself from the dead and being seen by over 500 people as proof of this event. In the book of John chapter 3 beginning in verse 16-17 it says this.

So now dead people can raise themselves from the dead? That sounds really insane. Talk about jesus becoming a zombie.

Now, you can choose to believe in Him and be saved from the lake of fire or reject Him and choose to spend all of eternity in hell and the lake of fire, but that seems kind of dumb doesn't it?

Sounds like he is jealous.
Jesus: "You either accept me or you burn in hell for all eternity"
Me: "Sounds like you just want more power and worship from people."

What he likes is when people feed him power by praying to him, repenting, asking him for forgiveness, etc.

But know this, because you now and probably have heard this many times before, you are without excuse. You can never say "I didnt know", because now you know. The question is, what are you going to do about it?

Oh I know about it alright. I don't need to worship someone who wants to lie and manipulate others just to want more power.

 

[Luciferi Baphomet]

Not everything in the bible is true? You're telling me.

Not everything in the bible is true. To believe in everything in a book that has stories told more than 2000 years ago, you have to be insane and very gullible.

Was Jesus trying to gain something from us? Experience. You can look up the word human in a dictionary but it doesn't quite give you the complete experience.

Ha ha don't need to
So jesus is god and wanted to make himself human then?

You were lied and manipulated by an angel? That was no angel.

Even if I told you the whole story you would not believe me.

We have free will but it's not without limits. We can't fly. We can't do magic.

Magick does exist. It is called witchcraft. I have done witchcraft before.

 

[Rapture Era]

Oh I will.


So you say huh? Doubt that.


It wasn't about him deceiving them.
Since the tree was called "The tree of knowledge of good and evil" Lucifer wanted Adam and Eve to eat the apple since it meant knowledge.
To be honest if Lucifer hadn't done that well knowledge would sure not exist today.


I do not see that as his goal for us to suffer.
What he wants is to free us from god's slavery.


So now dead people can raise themselves from the dead? That sounds really insane. Talk about jesus becoming a zombie.


Sounds like he is jealous.
Jesus: "You either accept me or you burn in hell for all eternity"
Me: "Sounds like you just want more power and worship from people."

What he likes is when people feed him power by praying to him, repenting, asking him for forgiveness, etc.


Oh I know about it alright. I don't need to worship someone who wants to lie and manipulate others just to want more power.

So with all you have just said here, it is obvious that Satan has you right where he wants you. You choose not to believe the truth of God's Word and therefore you will get exactly what you want, to be with Satan in hell forever and ever and ever. WOW!

 

[Rapture Era]

So you say huh? Doubt that.

No, not what I say, what God says. I'm just repeating it to you. You say you doubt that but what do you have that creates doubt? Just your own thinking? Is there something else that tells you otherwise?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So with all you have just said here, it is obvious that Satan has you right where he wants you. You choose not to believe the truth of God's Word and therefore you will get exactly what you want, to be with Satan in hell forever and ever and ever. WOW!

I'd rather be in Hell than spend eternity with a god who allows children to suffer with cancer, who commanded people to take sex slaves, and ordered that the unborn be ripped from the mother's womb.

 

[Rapture Era]

I'd rather be in Hell than spend eternity with a god who allows children to suffer with cancer, who commanded people to take sex slaves, and ordered that the unborn be ripped from the mother's womb.

Oh really? Where do you get that from?

 

[Super Universe]

Not everything in the bible is true. To believe in everything in a book that has stories told more than 2000 years ago, you have to be insane and very gullible.


Ha ha don't need to
So jesus is god and wanted to make himself human then?


Even if I told you the whole story you would not believe me.


Magick does exist. It is called witchcraft. I have done witchcraft before.

Jesus is God and wanted to be human? Jesus is not God, but, if God were to become one single being then Jesus would be the closest thing. I can't say that Jesus wanted to be human but He chose to bestow on the earth once Lucifer began his rebellion.

If you told me the whole story of how an angel lied and manipulated you, I would not believe you? Try me.

Magic does exist? Some people have abilities that others don't have.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Oh really? Where do you get that from?

Straight from the Bible itself.

 

[Thief]

Based on? I know I don't have to ask to know you have never communicated with a dead person.

the will to live

that I know what it is to be blind.....and continue seeing
to have my limbs unresponsive .....and continue feeling

there will no proof of life after death

but there is no logic in generating so much spirit
only to have ALL of it fail into dust

without continuance.....Man is a mystery
without resolve

 

[Shadow Wolf]

the will to live

that I know what it is to be blind.....and continue seeing
to have my limbs unresponsive .....and continue feeling

there will no proof of life after death

but there is no logic in generating so much spirit
only to have ALL of it fail into dust

without continuance.....Man is a mystery
without resolve

Good thing I'm not a man.

 

[Rapture Era]

Straight from the Bible itself.

Ok, well, whatever.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Ok, well, whatever.

Well, granted, cancer isn't mentioned, but yet it's something god allows to happen, and in a few books of the Bible, such as Kings, Exodus, and I/II Chronicles, it is indeed commanded that men take the women who have "not yet known a man" and keep her for himself as a slave. Everybody else was to be killed. And then a few times we do find the command was to tear the unborn from the womb.

 

[Rapture Era]

Well, granted, cancer isn't mentioned, but yet it's something god allows to happen, and in a few books of the Bible, such as Kings, Exodus, and I/II Chronicles, it is indeed commanded that men take the women who have "not yet known a man" and keep her for himself as a slave. Everybody else was to be killed. And then a few times we do find the command was to tear the unborn from the womb.

So you generalize like you did, that you would rather spend eternity in hell rather than serve a wicked God who would command or allow such things right? Is that what you are saying? If you want to, let's take one item at a time on your list. Can we have an honest dialog? If not, if you are just here to argue and not willing to understand these things/charges that you make I wont waste my time and neither should you. I can tell you honestly that as a Christian I have had the same questions and more. It all started when I asked God to come into my life, when I accepted what Jesus did for me by dying on a cross for the forgiveness of my sins by faith. With my mouth confessing Jesus as Lord of my life. During that time my father had cancer and battled it for 16 years. A 6'-2" 260 pound man dwindle down to 98 lbs. He, during the last year of his life, also asked God to save him. As I look back, I was very angry why God was allowing him to live and suffer. I said God, why dont you just take him? He is just lying in bed suffering TAKE HIM! Well, He did, but not in my timing, but His. I know my dad is with the Lord and with my mom and my brother and I look forward to seeing them again. This time, no more suffering, no more disease, no more tears or sadness because thats what God promises us. I also understand and see that if my dad had not had cancer, it is most likely that he would have never realized the need for a savior. So in retrospect, I'm glad he had cancer even though at the time it sucked. I didnt see the big picture because Im not in a position to see the big picture like God is. Too many times we make a judgement call only based on what we see, or read, or hear, and our limited ability to see whats really going on is skewed by our limited ability to judge a situation correctly.
I'm not immune to anything being a Christian. I battled cancer myself a few years ago. Still here doing well thanks to God. Anyway, there is a lot to consider when judging another. So like I said, if you would like to take on the items you listed above one at a time, I would be more than happy to dialog with you about them. If not, no problem.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm glad he had cancer

How much did you hate this man? You're glad his life came to a painful and miserable end so he would accept your idea of religion?

So you generalize like you did, that you would rather spend eternity in hell rather than serve a wicked God who would command or allow such things right? Is that what you are saying? If you want to, let's take one item at a time on your list. Can we have an honest dialog? If not, if you are just here to argue and not willing to understand these things/charges that you make I wont waste my time and neither should you. I can tell you honestly that as a Christian I have had the same questions and more. It all started when I asked God to come into my life, when I accepted what Jesus did for me by dying on a cross for the forgiveness of my sins by faith. With my mouth confessing Jesus as Lord of my life. During that time my father had cancer and battled it for 16 years. A 6'-2" 260 pound man dwindle down to 98 lbs. He, during the last year of his life, also asked God to save him. As I look back, I was very angry why God was allowing him to live and suffer. I said God, why dont you just take him? He is just lying in bed suffering TAKE HIM! Well, He did, but not in my timing, but His. I know my dad is with the Lord and with my mom and my brother and I look forward to seeing them again. This time, no more suffering, no more disease, no more tears or sadness because thats what God promises us. I also understand and see that if my dad had not had cancer, it is most likely that he would have never realized the need for a savior. So in retrospect, I'm glad he had cancer even though at the time it sucked. I didnt see the big picture because Im not in a position to see the big picture like God is. Too many times we make a judgement call only based on what we see, or read, or hear, and our limited ability to see whats really going on is skewed by our limited ability to judge a situation correctly.
I'm not immune to anything being a Christian. I battled cancer myself a few years ago. Still here doing well thanks to God. Anyway, there is a lot to consider when judging another. So like I said, if you would like to take on the items you listed above one at a time, I would be more than happy to dialog with you about them. If not, no problem.

That's nice. It doesn't address my point. You talked about cancer in your life, not about cancer in innocent children, who in many cases have just into awareness and suffering is all they know, as well as God's crimes against humanity throughout the Old Testament.

 

[Rapture Era]

How much did you hate this man? You're glad his life came to a painful and miserable end so he would accept your idea of religion?
That's nice. It doesn't address my point. You talked about cancer in your life, not about cancer in innocent children, who in many cases have just into awareness and suffering is all they know, as well as God's crimes against humanity throughout the Old Testament.

No, I talked about cancer in my family and in my personal life. You didnt specify that you wanted to talk about cancer in a childs life did you? It has nothing to do with religion, absolutely nothing! For you to say "how much did you hate this man" is a great insult to me and shows your complete stupidity! I loved my father with all my heart and of course I hated cancer and his suffering! Are you retarded or something? The point is, had he not been stricken with cancer, he may not have turned to the Lord. Now you have 35,000 posts. You have been around the block a few times here. But what you are missing is the big picture. Yes he suffered with cancer and died because of it. But because of his decision to trust in Jesus for his salvation, he is in heaven and I will see him again. That is what I'm happy about! Yes he lost the battle but won the war! He is in heaven forever! Thats what all you guys seem to be missing! You spend your time whining and complaining about the present and not spending any time to ensure your eternal destiny! Thats why your complaints are worthless! You could be dead tomorrow! Do you really think your complaining about God is going to do ANYTHING AT ALL? Why dont you spend what time you have on this earth doing something positive?
Whats the difference? Cancer is cancer. It doesnt matter who it attacks! Would it make any difference at all if I talked to you about a personal friend who's 3 year old daughter that I loved very much battled cancer and lost the battle at the age of 4? This is cancer of an innocent child is it not? You dont care about children suffering with cancer do you? Trials, no matter what they are in people's lives are trials. I gave you a testimony of my personal life in good faith as to have an honest dialog with you and all you can say is "thats nice? You didnt address my point? What about Gods crimes against humanity in the old testament?" You insinuate that I hated my father? What kind of a person are you? All you want to do is complain dont you? In good faith I was willing to dialog with you about the things you thought were unfair in life but you dont really care about that do you? You are not interested in answers to life's difficult questions are you? God has created NO CRIMES! Your illiterate mind is evident that you are not willing to understand any situation beyond your own selfish whining and complaining and therefore useless in any discussion about truth because you dont have the ability to carry on an intelligent and common sense dialog! Man do I feel sorry for you! It must be a real bummer being you! Full of hate! You are a disgrace! Shame on you!

 

[Thief]

How much did you hate this man? You're glad his life came to a painful and miserable end so he would accept your idea of religion?

That's nice. It doesn't address my point. You talked about cancer in your life, not about cancer in innocent children, who in many cases have just into awareness and suffering is all they know, as well as God's crimes against humanity throughout the Old Testament.

crimes of God?

looks like thread material....