Why can't Muslims criticize Islam

[Epic Beard Man]

My understanding is that Islamic leaders are selected similarly to gang or cartel leaders - where the strongest or most ruthless one gains power through his reputation.

...This is in contrast to an electoral process.

What an asinine comment. This does not even answer the question. All Imams and Sheikhs are not even agreement even among religious punishment due to jurisprudence. Different schools of thought have different interpretations and that is on a religious level. Then you have the Qadi to rule on the local and/or country law.

If extremist who issue fatwas were taken seriously the world would be a constant battleground.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Again with the "two wrongs make it right" argument.

No two wrongs don’t make a right but there is heavy emphasis of fear mongering. I am at more at danger from a christian than I am from a Muslim. People forget Mafiosos, gang bangers, crooked cops, and and the like go to church and profess Christianity as their faith oh wait I bet in your next response we are going to play No True Scotsman right?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

What would characterize such a fight? Is the Qur'an clear about that?

*********** The verse refers to the Quraysh pursuing the Muslims to fight and kill them. This is the major concept of the “smaller jihad” where you fight to defend yourself militarily. That is why historically military jihad was fought in defense never used as a justification for offense.

Of course one may use the “Golden Horde” or tactics used by the Mongols who stated they were commencing in Jihad but the Mongols never gave up their nomadic ways especially when it came to military expansion.

Allah says in the Qur’an “fight those who fight you, but do not commit excess.” That means if they surrender you let them live. These are principles that have long been a part of Islam, can’t control an extremist follower who manipulates their meaning.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

...But the electoral process was invented by the Romans. So Islam can never really adopt it -it must be eternally rejected.

Roman coin depicting elections:

View attachment 24248

Yet Roman philosophy came from Africa (Kemet also known as Egypt) as well as such ideals such as democracy and the like also follow suit....hmmmm

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Is someone who blasphemes, fighting against Islam?

No. The verse in particular was referring to the pagan Quraysh tribe. Someone who commits blasphemy does so against their own soul.

Apocalypse said it best at 2:20 I find the video pertinent to answering your question.

 

[LuisDantas]

I thought you knew stuff about Islam?

I try to avoid being arrogant. Do you have any problems with that?

Is that the kind of attitude that you find proper? If so, then I would welcome no longer being addressed by you. Thank you.

I knew that was a lie.

No, you do not, because it is not so.

And I fully expect you to grow up already, ok?

 

[Cooky]

Yet Roman philosophy came from Africa (Kemet also known as Egypt) as well as such ideals such as democracy and the like also follow suit....hmmmm

Actually the Greeks, as Greek culture was infused into Egypt when Alexander the Great became Pharoah.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I try to avoid being arrogant. Do you have any problems with that?

Is that the kind of attitude that you find proper? If so, then I would welcome no longer being addressed by you. Thank you.



No, you do not, because it is not so.

And I fully expect you to grow up already, ok?

Arrogant? At what point did you exclaim arrogance? Don’t be mad because I call you out on your silly ness. But that’s find you don’t have to be addressed by me but if you gonna have the attitude to demean a faith without intellectual discourse best believe I will call you out on it.

Btw I’ve been grown can your godless attitude take a backseat for once and stop crying about Islam?

 

[LuisDantas]

can your godless attitude take a backseat for once and stop crying about Islam?

I will criticize Islaam as much as I see fit to. As should anyone.

I fear that you will be consistently disappointed if you expect anything else.

And of course, you should be so disappointed as long as you maintain such an unreasonable expectation.

I have no idea of why you would expect otherwise.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Actually the Greeks, as Greek culture was infused into Egypt when Alexander the Great became Pharoah.

Sigh....

There is this

An African Origin of Philosophy: Myth or Reality? | Dr. Molefi Kete Asante

If you choose to not read that in its length you can read

"Greek Philosophers Who Came to Africa to Study" by Adu-Asamoa, Barima - New African, Issue 477, October 2008 | Online Research Library: Questia

In beginning philosophy we learn about Greek thought but a lot of professors now are going back before popular Greek thought to Kemet Africa.

 

[Estro Felino]

Yet Roman philosophy came from Africa (Kemet also known as Egypt) as well as such ideals such as democracy and the like also follow suit....hmmmm

Romans conquered Egypt after Cleopatra died...
it turns out Egypt remained, even after 31 BC the lighthouse of the Greek civilization...it was never romanized.

 

[Cooky]

it turns out Egypt remained, even after 31 BC the lighthouse of the Greek civilization...it was never romanized.

Are you cereal?

 

[FearGod]

Is someone who blasphemes, fighting against Islam?

No, blasphemy isn't a fight against Islam.

 

[sun rise]

How much more oppressive is Wahhabism than Sharia Law?

What else has happened?

"Sharia" is a general term meaning that the laws of a nation derive from religion. Since there are many different interpretations of what is in the Quran, there are many different ideas of what constitutes Sharia. The following says it better than I can. But I'd note that some of what constitutes "Sharia" is about how to pray or what a Muslim can eat - not different than other religions. There are aspects I totally oppose and other that are fine with me. So I'd rather get into details when discussing Islamic law

“Sharia” in general refers to the rules of practice for Muslims, which covers everything from dietary restrictions and prayer times to finance and criminal law. And when it comes to “practice”, there are many schools of thought, which are called “madhhabs” in Islam. You may have heard of the two main groupings in the Islamic community called “Shias” and “Sunnis”. Then within these there are several sub-groupings such as “twelver shia”, “zaydi shia”, and “hanafi”, “maliki”, and so on. Then, within these sub-groupings there can be different views depending on which scholar is being referred to.

Now each of these sub-groupings would have their own set of rules, which you can say is “sharia” law according to them. So for example, sharia law in Saudi Arabia, which is a Sunni kingdom which follows the Wahhabi school of thought, would be different from that applied in Iran, which is based on the sharia of Twelver Shia, or Aceh (Indonesia) which has sharia law based on the Sunni Shafii school of thought.

This is why many Muslim countries would have a “Mufti” or “Mufti Council”, who is basically the leading Muslim scholar/s who would formulate a definite set of Islamic Sharia Law according to him, which may or may not then be applied or referred to by the ruling government.

So, strictly speaking, there could be hundreds of different versions of “sharia law”. One basic example is smoking. Some Muslims say it is forbidden to smoke, while others say it’s okay. Likewise, keeping dogs as pets. Or female circumcision. Or procedures regarding marriage and divorce.

All of this stems from different interpretations of the Quran and different selections of Hadith and traditions.

 

[sun rise]

One Islamic writer I know remarks on how somehow the shahadah, which is meant to be 'I testify that there is no god but God, and Muhammad is His Messenger' seems to have expanded to include 'and the Uthmanic Qur'an is his infallible word'.

And that is analogous to those who consider the Bible "inerrant".

 

[FearGod]

What would characterize such a fight? Is the Qur'an clear about that?

It's in the next verse

And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.(2:192)

 

[sun rise]

If extremist who issue fatwas were taken seriously the world would be a constant battleground.

And they're trying their best to turn the world into just that. They are aided and abetted by those who would do the same in opposition to them. This is how black vs white thinking works - the world is divided into good, us, and evil, them, and, of course, evil must be destroyed.

There is also the "quote game" where someone quotes a holy book such as the Quran to prove something and someone else, such as me, posts the opposite to prove the opposite. For example, one of my favorites:

The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation
Muhammad Sarwar: If they (the unbelievers) propose peace, accept it and trust in God. God is All-hearing and All-knowing.

Since holy books can be used to prove opposite contentions, it to me is all about how it plays out in real life.

 

[sun rise]

It's in the next verse

And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.(2:192)

This slipped in and proves my point when compared to what I quoted.

 

[Ellen Brown]

If Islam gets its way and I was a person of the book, I would have to convert or become a Dhimmi.

However oppressive that would be, as an Atheist, things do not look that ‘good’.

Living under sharia - Dhimmi - Islam and Western Civilisation

I understand. That is one thing that Islamics did that angers me.

 

[icehorse]

No two wrongs don’t make a right but there is heavy emphasis of fear mongering. I am at more at danger from a christian than I am from a Muslim. People forget Mafiosos, gang bangers, crooked cops, and and the like go to church and profess Christianity as their faith oh wait I bet in your next response we are going to play No True Scotsman right?

I see no evidence that Islam leads to decent societies. Feel free to point out modern examples of Muslim majority countries that are flourishing. And I suppose you might trot out "because Western interventions", which is a weak argument from many angles.