Why did God create evil?

[javajo]

"I form the light, and create darkness : I make peace, and create evil : I the LORD do all these things.
It's quite clear that it means exactly what it says: god shaped, fashioned, created evil. No two ways about it.

There is a very good explanation of that here: What Does God mean, "I create Evil". Please go there for several passages about this.

Basically, the Hebrew 'ra', can mean evil, as in sin/wickedness, but also something bad or not good from our point of view. Like when a child gets a punishment for doing wrong, they don't like it, its 'ra'. But not in the sense of sin. Same with when we go through something we don't like, but perhaps we grow from it, at the time it is not good to us.

Jeremiah 24:2 says, "One basket had very good figs, even like the figs that are first ripe: and the other basket had very naughty figs, which could not be eaten, they were so bad."

The same word, 'ra', is used, but the figs are not sinful or wicked, they just aren't good (fruit is inanimate, it cannot do evil). If I fall and get hurt, its 'ra' bad, but not because of wickedness, nor is it a sin. God's just judgment is not evil in the sense of wickedness, it is just 'ra', bad for the wicked people under it.

 

[Madhuri]

Sorry. The question was, "If all God created was good then what was left to choose from?" I don't know that I can answer that satisfactorily. All I know is the Bible says that when God saw everything he had made he called it, "very good". There was no sin, so no death, and everything was very good. I believe he did not want robots, but people who chose Him, as he is very good, too (I know some will disagree with that, but the Bible says he is). So he gave just one command and they broke it. That plunged the world into sin, death, and darkness.

So, in the beginning man was good, but then, having the knowledge of good and evil, and a free will, and a fallen sinful nature, being spiritually dead toward God, they began to do evil to one another. This happened with the angels as well, they were created perfect, but because of having a free will, which a loving God would give them, over time Lucifer became proud and they fell.

Anyway, Jesus said sin/evil starts in the heart of man, I don't think we should blame God for evil which we do. I believe since we've all done wrong, in his love God provided a Saviour for us. As the resulting penalty of sin is death, he died in our place, paying the penalty. So, I believe all who trust him are freely saved. That's my belief. Probably didn't answer your question well, but, hey, I wasn't there.

Hang on, isn't a characteristic of being good that you obey God? Wasn't the act of disobedience a characteristic of 'evil'?

I still don't understand how evil came into existence if God did not create it.

 

[Shades-o-Blue]

Isaiah 45:7



Why would the Lord create evil? I'm sure Christians can explain this; I'm not looking for an argument, I'd just like to understand. Is this quote taken out of context?

Notice the word 'create'. If you believe that Satan was once Lucifer, Son of the Morning, then you can draw the conclusion that Lucifer (Satan) was created by God, therefore, God creates evil.

 

[javajo]

Notice the word 'create'. If you believe that Satan was once Lucifer, Son of the Morning, then you can draw the conclusion that Lucifer (Satan) was created by God, therefore, God creates evil.

If a good man has a son and the son is evil, the man did not do the evil, he only had a son who is evil. I believe we should not blame God for the evil we do, its called taking responsibility.

Hang on, isn't a characteristic of being good that you obey God? Wasn't the act of disobedience a characteristic of 'evil'?

I still don't understand how evil came into existence if God did not create it.

I don't know why a good person would not obey God except that it must have had something to with their having a free will to choose God and with the deception that took place. The three areas of sin are the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life. Eve saw the fruit looked good, looked like it would taste good, and was told by the serpent she would be like God (which is funny, that's what Lucifer wanted, to be God). She believed the first lie, "Yea, hath God said?" While it may be hard to understand how evil came about, I personally would not presume to blame it on God and blaspheme his holy name, but that's just me.

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. James 1:17

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. James 1:13-14

 

[Acim]

if god didn't create evil...who did?

Extension(s) (or children) of God caught up in an illusion of their own making.

It's quite clear that it means exactly what it says: god shaped, fashioned, created evil. No two ways about it.

The 'two ways about it' is that it is quite clear, this is not the Father creating. How a reader could miss this in the material fascinates me.

that would make god indifferent...
i have no problem with that...if it is also understood that god does nothing good either.

God is indifferent to self made up illusion. If your child has a night (or day) dream, manifesting a self that is tormented by fear, and lost in images of hopelessness, do you take responsibility for the evil created there? Sole responsibility? Partial responsibility? Or something closer to no responsibility for the manifested illusions? Especially when they are said (or believed) to be occurring.

In the relative (and rather insignificant) good that is manifested, the Father doesn't take credit for this. This includes a great many things and amounts to anything that perpetuates the illusion by taking pleasure in any event or external relationship. God (Creator) is indifferent to this as well.

Yet, the Father has sent 'helpers' (for lack of a better word) into the situation, to awaken minds from dreamful state. To bring light to consciousness allied with darkness (and despair). These helpers are not over yonder, but for sure one is found within person reading these words right now. The question then gets asked again, who is really indifferent to what is (really) going on here? The one making the dream, and aware of the illusion, but perpetuating it as self serving reality? Or the One residing in reality, certain of your Life, honoring of your Will, creator of your Being?

 

[Madhuri]

While it may be hard to understand how evil came about, I personally would not presume to blame it on God and blaspheme his holy name, but that's just me.

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. James 1:17

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. James 1:13-14

It just doesn't really make sense that evil would exist if God didn't create it. If he didn't create it, then that means God didn't create everything. It would mean, I presume, that that he is the God of good, and there is some other force that exists independently, perhaps as powerful and also eternal, that is the God of bad.

Otherwise it doesn't make any sense. Don't you question it, or try to understand it?

 

[idea]

Isaiah 45:7

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Why would the Lord create evil? I'm sure Christians can explain this; I'm not looking for an argument, I'd just like to understand. Is this quote taken out of context?

The scripture you quoted is translated incorrectly... not "create" but "transform"

I form the light, and transform darkness: I make peace, and transform evil: I the LORD do all these things.

in fact, God did not ex-Nihlo create anything - a better translation of bara, is transform.

see old thread:http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/evolution-vs-creationism/87669-god-did-not-create-anything.html

nothing evil comes from God

(New Testament | 1 John 1:5) God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

He is cleaning up a mess He did not create (if you look at the original Hebrew words)

 

[javajo]

It just doesn't really make sense that evil would exist if God didn't create it. If he didn't create it, then that means God didn't create everything. It would mean, I presume, that that he is the God of good, and there is some other force that exists independently, perhaps as powerful and also eternal, that is the God of bad.

Otherwise it doesn't make any sense. Don't you question it, or try to understand it?

Sure. It has been said earlier that cold does not exist, it is merely the absence of light, as darkness does not exist, its the absence of light. So evil is the absence of God. "God did not create evil. It isn't like truth, or love which exist as virtues like heat or light. Evil is simply the state where God is not present, like cold without heat, or darkness without light." See here for a more in-depth explanation: Did God Create Evil?

Since evil is not a created thing, I don't think it needs an independent, source that is as powerful as God: "Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me." Isaiah 45:21

 

[Madhuri]

Sure. It has been said earlier that cold does not exist, it is merely the absence of light, as darkness does not exist, its the absence of light. So evil is the absence of God. "God did not create evil. It isn't like truth, or love which exist as virtues like heat or light. Evil is simply the state where God is not present, like cold without heat, or darkness without light." See here for a more in-depth explanation: Did God Create Evil?

Since evil is not a created thing, I don't think it needs an independent, source that is as powerful as God: "Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me." Isaiah 45:21

But, there are actual characteristics of evil such as pride and lust and jealousy etc. right? Are you saying that Lucifer, in the presence of God, could experience this evil, which you define as absence of God?

Why would the absence of God = feeling lustful or prideful? Wouldn't it just be nothingness or indifference?

 

[waitasec]

God is indifferent to self made up illusion. If your child has a night (or day) dream, manifesting a self that is tormented by fear, and lost in images of hopelessness, do you take responsibility for the evil created there? Sole responsibility? Partial responsibility? Or something closer to no responsibility for the manifested illusions? Especially when they are said (or believed) to be occurring.

In the relative (and rather insignificant) good that is manifested, the Father doesn't take credit for this. This includes a great many things and amounts to anything that perpetuates the illusion by taking pleasure in any event or external relationship. God (Creator) is indifferent to this as well.

Yet, the Father has sent 'helpers' (for lack of a better word) into the situation, to awaken minds from dreamful state. To bring light to consciousness allied with darkness (and despair). These helpers are not over yonder, but for sure one is found within person reading these words right now. The question then gets asked again, who is really indifferent to what is (really) going on here? The one making the dream, and aware of the illusion, but perpetuating it as self serving reality? Or the One residing in reality, certain of your Life, honoring of your Will, creator of your Being?

evil isn't an illusion
unless you want to call goodness an illusion too.

 

[javajo]

But, there are actual characteristics of evil such as pride and lust and jealousy etc. right? Are you saying that Lucifer, in the presence of God, could experience this evil, which you define as absence of God?

I think God knew because of free choice that humans/angels could become evil and that he allows it for a time so all will have the chance to choose or reject Him. I think this from the link I posted above says it well: "Did God know before "creation" that His created beings would introduce "evil" into creation? The answer is yes. He knew, but without allowing His created beings the freedom of choice and its result, there could never be a full manifestation and appreciation of God's holiness, love and grace [4]. What is more is that man, as a creation of God in His image, would never have had the opportunity for true fellowship with God, which is the very essence of the heavenly state." Did God Create Evil?

Why would the absence of God = feeling lustful or prideful? Wouldn't it just be nothingness or indifference?

I think it a sharper contrast, like the absence of heat is not warmth, its cold, or the absence of light is not gray, its dark. So the more one moves from God, the more they move toward evil and fall into greater depravity and wickedness.

 

[Acim]

evil isn't an illusion
unless you want to call goodness an illusion too.

I believe I already did.

And noted that within the illusion there are helpers. Even these helpers are illusions. But there is reasonable / logical plausibility that aspect of the illusion (still an illusion) could lead to awareness of illusion and escape from illusion.

Most forms of "goodness" are not designed to help one awaken from the illusion.

 

[waitasec]

I believe I already did.

And noted that within the illusion there are helpers. Even these helpers are illusions. But there is reasonable / logical plausibility that aspect of the illusion (still an illusion) could lead to awareness of illusion and escape from illusion.

Most forms of "goodness" are not designed to help one awaken from the illusion.

then evil is designed to help one awaken from it?

 

[Acim]

then evil is designed to help one awaken from it?

I would say no.

Evil is manifested as perceived reality to keep alive illusion that God is separate, that fear is a reasonable guide, and that suffering and guilt are most one can hope for. IOW, evil is designed to keep one asleep.

 

[Blackdog22]

Sure. It has been said earlier that cold does not exist, it is merely the absence of light, as darkness does not exist, its the absence of light. So evil is the absence of God. "God did not create evil. It isn't like truth, or love which exist as virtues like heat or light. Evil is simply the state where God is not present, like cold without heat, or darkness without light." See here for a more in-depth explanation: Did God Create Evil?

Since evil is not a created thing, I don't think it needs an independent, source that is as powerful as God: "Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me." Isaiah 45:21

This only works if you assume that God had nothing to do with the effects of not having something produce. For example did God not intend for things to be cold in the absence of heat? If not then God isn't very all knowing. The absence of something only produces something because God deemed it so. Hunger is the absence of food because God deemed that so from your view point. If God wanted, the absence of heat could be yellow, or be skittles. So your still left with God created the possibility for the opposite to exist. If evil exists when God isn't around then it is because he wants it to be so. I dunno about you, but that sounds like he still created it to me. It also sounds like forced love to me. Love me or in my absence you will suffer evil.

Despite all of this, evil still manifests in churches which are supposedly Gods houses. It appears that even with God around evil can manifest, so the argument really makes no sense to begin with, but if you want to try to make it make sense refer to my above argument.

 

[Me Myself]

To blame it on us because he likes the smell of roasted sinners in the morning? (of eternity?)

 

[Blackdog22]

I think God knew because of free choice that humans/angels could become evil and that he allows it for a time so all will have the chance to choose or reject Him. I think this from the link I posted above says it well: "Did God know before "creation" that His created beings would introduce "evil" into creation? The answer is yes. He knew, but without allowing His created beings the freedom of choice and its result, there could never be a full manifestation and appreciation of God's holiness, love and grace [4]. What is more is that man, as a creation of God in His image, would never have had the opportunity for true fellowship with God, which is the very essence of the heavenly state." Did God Create Evil?

So God gave them the freedom of choice to do something that he is no part of? How did the choice come about if God didn't create the choice to do evil? God didn't create us with the ability to fly either, has he done us some grave injustice in your opinion? If not being able to fly isn't a big deal then what is wrong with not being able to do evil or take part in evil? That is what your God wants afterall right? He wants us to be in Heaven?

Your argument also lacks the fact that humans were in a stupor during this so called "choice". They lacked no knowledge of right or wrong and were tempted by a super natural being while God was off wondering about. God also made Eve who he knew would surely tempt Adam. How is that not Gods fault? You do know there are different personality types right? Based on genetics? Some people will obey what their parents tell them while some have a rebellious quality. How should we be to blame for God, 1: Creating a tree he deemed wicked(but yet God knows of no wickedness?) 2: Created two humans that had no understanding of right or wrong, 3: Letting a super natural snake tempt them, 4: Wondering off and not keeping an eye out for them, 5: Making these humans with a rebellious quality. How exactly is all of this anyones fault but Gods?

Following my sentence from above there is actually no way it could be anyones fault other than Gods. Either God wanted us to have no choice to be evil and thus never intended for Adam and Eve to sin or.... God set them up to sin so they would have a choice. Which would make God responsible for the original sin, which would make him the source of evil (evil being the disobedience to God). If God created these beings to truly have choice and free will then he had to of meant for them to sin so that they would understand choice. Either that or he intended them to be mindless robots in a perfect garden forever and ever.

 

[waitasec]

I would say no.

Evil is manifested as perceived reality to keep alive illusion that God is separate, that fear is a reasonable guide, and that suffering and guilt are most one can hope for. IOW, evil is designed to keep one asleep.

just like goodness then...


so i'm not getting what you are meaning in response to my post

that would make god indifferent...
i have no problem with that...if it is also understood that god does nothing good either.

 

[languagemalta]

God only creates some creatures without thinking that it may be good or bad, but nothing can be completed without worst because a person can identifies and recover himself when he looks his evil personality within himself.

 

[Shades-o-Blue]

If a good man has a son and the son is evil, the man did not do the evil, he only had a son who is evil. I believe we should not blame God for the evil we do, its called taking responsibility.

Yes, I'm all for personal accountability too. I was merely trying to explain the scripture. What do you think God means, when He says He creates evil?