Why did god create homosexuality?

[Skwim]

The Bible says that sinful tendencies are the result of our sinful and imperfect nature, received from our first parents. (Romans5:12) Sin colors all our actions, such that we cannot please God if we rely on our own sinful nature. All thinking and inclinations out of harmony with God's standards are sinful, I believe. As the Bible states at Romans 8:5-8: "For those who are in accord with the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those in accord with the spirit on the things of the spirit. For the minding of the flesh means death, but the minding of the spirit means life and peace; because the minding of the flesh means enmity with God, for it is not under subjection to the law of God, nor, in fact, can it be. So those who are in harmony with the flesh cannot please God."
According to the Bible, we are ALL sinful and imperfect, and need God's help if we are to be reconciled to him.

Let me get this right. If god condemns an act it means that anyone doing such a thing commits a sin. Is this correct?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

They've yet to demonstrate the bible condemns homosexuality except an out of context morality tale

 

[Sha'irullah]

Hi Sterling, I would be willing to wager a bet with you that if you would be able to number the total male dog on male dog sex occurances, to the number of male dog to female dog sex occurances, the percentage would be less than 1%. It is not normal for a male dog to have sex with another male dog, it is totally abnormal, just as male to male sex in humans is abnormal. It is extremely "uncommon" for male to male sex in ALL species, and it is just the brainwashing of the homophilia agenda driven advocates, that give these pseudo lies. KB

My family has had over 15 dogs and lived on a farm so your argument is refuted before it even tries making a claim.
Males dogs go for females of course but they will happily insert their member or hump anything that moves or looks fury.

Make Bulls on the other hand have to be kept away from other male bulls as the chances of them going gay are quite evident.

Greek society accepts homosexuality as a majority along with pederasty. So no poll is needed if the data is already collected.
Idiocy has a way of lurking its head into the wrong debate I will admit

 

[Agnostic75]

Hi Sterling, I would be willing to wager a bet with you that if you would be able to number the total male dog on male dog sex occurances, to the number of male dog to female dog sex occurances, the percentage would be less than 1%. It is not normal for a male dog to have sex with another male dog, it is totally abnormal, just as male to male sex in humans is abnormal. It is extremely "uncommon" for male to male sex in ALL species, and it is just the brainwashing of the homophilia agenda driven advocates, that give these pseudo lies.

Well, how do you explain the fact that virtually all bonobo monkeys are bi-sexual, and that experts say that they derive benefits from their bi-sexuality? It would be quite uncommon for a bonobo monkey to be heterosexual.

Regardless of the percentage of animals in a given species that practice homosexuality, some members over 1500 species of animals and birds practice it.

When some teenagers develop a gay sexual identity, that is not their fault since sexual identity is not a choice. Having sex is a very strong urge for the vast majority of humans. Thus, it is perfectly normal to have strong sexual urges. It would be abnormal not to have strong sexual urges. Gay people have two choices, to have sex, or not to have sex. Are you suggesting that all gay people in the world should avoid having sex? If so, why? Lots of research has shown that sexual abstinence for long periods of time has caused serious physical and emotional problems for lots of people. Sexual abstinence for long periods of time is definitely abnormal. Usually, only religiously motivated will try it, and many who do are unhappy with it.

Many things that are abnormal are beneficial, such as having an IQ of 160, or being exceptionally good at a sport.

I assume that you will have no choice except to go back to religious arguments against homosexuality.

 

[sojourner]

Hi sojourner, you should re-check. Judaism makes it abundantly clear that it is a sin, even though some liberal minded sects within Judaism is pushing in your direction. I see that as those who call good as evil, and evil as good, in their delusional rationalization of sin tolerance.

You should consider the story of Lot. Lot was a righteous man who was tormented by the Sodomites (2 Pet 2:6-8), and was even willing to subject his daughters to forcible rape by these Sodomites, to keep the abominable act of homosexuality away from his male visitors (Gen 19:1-11). Notice verse 11, I see those who profess this lifestyle are as blind as bats in trying to find the DOOR. They are like the blind leading the blind. KB

We're not Jews. We're Christians. Once again, since homosexuality as a normal orientation was unknown, it could not have been normal homosexuality that is prohibited.

The story of Lot has nothing to do with homosexuality and everything to do with hospitality. If you were aware of the major role of hospitality in ancient Judaic culture, you wouldn't have posted what you did here.

 

[sojourner]

A person may be genetically disposed toward alcoholism, but can choose to avoid drunkenness. Wrong desires can be controlled, and homosexual acts are a conscious choice. I believe that not the inclination but the action is condemned in the Bible. And the Bible shows many who once practiced homosexuality changed their conduct in order to please God. (1 Corinthians 6:9,11)

You are aware, of course that the largest "pray the gay away" organization just closed its doors and its leader made a public apology to homosexuals for the lives he may have harmed trying to turn people.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I've even seen it suggested that the Sodom story was placed next to the story of Abraham's hospitality to contrast the two. Being hospitable or being brutes basically

 

[sojourner]

The Bible says that sinful tendencies are the result of our sinful and imperfect nature, received from our first parents. (Romans5:12) Sin colors all our actions, such that we cannot please God if we rely on our own sinful nature. All thinking and inclinations out of harmony with God's standards are sinful, I believe. As the Bible states at Romans 8:5-8: "For those who are in accord with the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those in accord with the spirit on the things of the spirit. For the minding of the flesh means death, but the minding of the spirit means life and peace; because the minding of the flesh means enmity with God, for it is not under subjection to the law of God, nor, in fact, can it be. So those who are in harmony with the flesh cannot please God."
According to the Bible, we are ALL sinful and imperfect, and need God's help if we are to be reconciled to him.

Funny thing is that the medical and psychiatric communities have found that homosexuality is completely normal. Not a sickness, not a "condition," not a disease, not an aberration. Normal. Not sin.

 

[Ken Brown]

We're not Jews. We're Christians. Once again, since homosexuality as a normal orientation was unknown, it could not have been normal homosexuality that is prohibited.

The story of Lot has nothing to do with homosexuality and everything to do with hospitality. If you were aware of the major role of hospitality in ancient Judaic culture, you wouldn't have posted what you did here.

Hi sojourner, wouldn't you say it is rather delusional thinking to believe that Elohim would destroy Sodom and Gomorrha for being unhospitable? If that was the case, then one could say that we have a very unloving and merciless El. And when has unhospitablity become a sin on the same scale as homosexuality and murder? Look at what Peter had to say concerning Sodom and Gomorrha's sin:

2Pe 2:6-8
(6) and reducing the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes, He condemned them to destruction, having made them an example who were to be ungodly,
(7) and He rescued righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the indecent conduct of lawless men
(8) (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, tormented his righteous soul by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds)--

Peter tells us that they were "ungodly," having "indecent conduct," just like you have with homosexuality, as it is a "lawless deed." Their destruction had nothing whatsoever to do with hospitality. That is just a "blind" and "delusional" excuse for the sin of homosexuality.

Also consider Jude:

Jud 1:7
(7) just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

Doesn't Jude agree with Peter? Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed not because of something to do with "hospitality," but because of the sexually immoral act of pursuing the unnatural desire of homosexuality. Why is this so hard for you to accept and see? KB

 

[tumbleweed41]

Hi sojourner, wouldn't you say it is rather delusional thinking to believe that Elohim would destroy Sodom and Gomorrha for being unhospitable? If that was the case, then one could say that we have a very unloving and merciless El...

So, we can dismiss this entirely?


Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.
Ezekiel

Lest El be thought to be unloving and merciless?

 

[Ken Brown]

Well, how do you explain the fact that virtually all bonobo monkeys are bi-sexual, and that experts say that they derive benefits from their bi-sexuality? It would be quite uncommon for a bonobo monkey to be heterosexual.

Regardless of the percentage of animals in a given species that practice homosexuality, some members over 1500 species of animals and birds practice it.

When some teenagers develop a gay sexual identity, that is not their fault since sexual identity is not a choice. Having sex is a very strong urge for the vast majority of humans. Thus, it is perfectly normal to have strong sexual urges. It would be abnormal not to have strong sexual urges. Gay people have two choices, to have sex, or not to have sex. Are you suggesting that all gay people in the world should avoid having sex? If so, why? Lots of research has shown that sexual abstinence for long periods of time has caused serious physical and emotional problems for lots of people. Sexual abstinence for long periods of time is definitely abnormal. Usually, only religiously motivated will try it, and many who do are unhappy with it.

Many things that are abnormal are beneficial, such as having an IQ of 160, or being exceptionally good at a sport.

I assume that you will have no choice except to go back to religious arguments against homosexuality.

Hi Agnostic75, the bonobo monkey is not the norm within the monkey world, they are as abnormal as homosexuals are in the human world. And I will admit that homosexual activities occur within the animal world, but this activity just reflects what transpires with humans. The majority of animals are heterosexual, just as the majority of humans are heterosexual, and even within the bonobo monkey community, there is a very common occurrence of adult and juvenile sexual interaction, so would you suggest that pedophilia be natural and acceptable based upon the activity of the bonobo monkey community? You want to justify the abnormality of homosexuality within the human race with the abnormality of homosexuality within the animal kingdom, and that reasoning or logic just doesn't stand up to the test of normal thinking. KB

 

[Ken Brown]

So, we can dismiss this entirely?

Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.
Ezekiel

Lest El be thought to be unloving and merciless?

Hi tumbleweed41, you are not looking at the whole picture. Sodom's sin was "pride" or "arrogance," as they did not try to conceal their sin, but paraded it before all to openly see:

Isa 3:9
(9) For the look on their faces bears witness against them; they proclaim their sin like Sodom; they do not hide it. Woe to them! For they have brought evil on themselves.

The men of Sodom were GREAT sinners, and all the men of Sodom, young and old came to Lot's house and wanted to have sex with Lot's male visitors:

Gen 19:4-5
(4) But before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both young and old, all the people to the last man, surrounded the house.
(5) And they called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know them."

These men of Sodom wanted to KNOW THEM. That phrase, "know them," is referring specifically to having SEX with them, and it doesn't have anything to do with a lack of hospitality. This was a GREAT SIN that the men of Sodom had, the sin of homosexuality:

Gen 13:13
(13) Now the men of Sodom were wicked, great sinners against Yahweh.

So I find it rather astonishing that the great sinning which Sodom proclaimed and didn't try to hide was the sin of unhospitality, instead of the sin of homosexuality. And look at what we have today, the great pride fest's of proclaiming the sin of homosexuality for all to see, instead of trying to hide their sin in the closet. KB

 

[sojourner]

Hi sojourner, wouldn't you say it is rather delusional thinking to believe that Elohim would destroy Sodom and Gomorrha for being unhospitable?

Shows what you know about the centrality of hospitality in the ancient Near East...

2Pe 2:6-8
(6) and reducing the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes, He condemned them to destruction, having made them an example who were to be ungodly,
(7) and He rescued righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the indecent conduct of lawless men
(8) (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, tormented his righteous soul by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds)--

Peter tells us that they were "ungodly," having "indecent conduct," just like you have with homosexuality, as it is a "lawless deed." Their destruction had nothing whatsoever to do with hospitality. That is just a "blind" and "delusional" excuse for the sin of homosexuality.

When Lot showed up, no elders greeted him at the city gates (it was the law that they do so). Instead, a stranger greeted him and gave him hospitality. Then, the men showed up and wanted to rape Lot (lawless). The stranger complied with the law and sheltered Lot.

I'm afraid your bias and ignorance of biblical anthropology has colored your reasoning here.

Jud 1:7
(7) just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

Rape is immorality of a sexual nature. Jude is quite within the bounds of ancient understanding to say that same-sex acts are "unnatural." It is not, however, within the bounds of modern understanding.

 

[sojourner]

So, we can dismiss this entirely?


Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.
Ezekiel

Lest El be thought to be unloving and merciless?

Yep. Inhospitality.

 

[sojourner]

Hi tumbleweed41, you are not looking at the whole picture. Sodom's sin was "pride" or "arrogance," as they did not try to conceal their sin, but paraded it before all to openly see:

Isa 3:9
(9) For the look on their faces bears witness against them; they proclaim their sin like Sodom; they do not hide it. Woe to them! For they have brought evil on themselves.

The men of Sodom were GREAT sinners, and all the men of Sodom, young and old came to Lot's house and wanted to have sex with Lot's male visitors:

Gen 19:4-5
(4) But before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both young and old, all the people to the last man, surrounded the house.
(5) And they called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know them."

These men of Sodom wanted to KNOW THEM. That phrase, "know them," is referring specifically to having SEX with them, and it doesn't have anything to do with a lack of hospitality. This was a GREAT SIN that the men of Sodom had, the sin of homosexuality:

Gen 13:13
(13) Now the men of Sodom were wicked, great sinners against Yahweh.

So I find it rather astonishing that the great sinning which Sodom proclaimed and didn't try to hide was the sin of unhospitality, instead of the sin of homosexuality. And look at what we have today, the great pride fest's of proclaiming the sin of homosexuality for all to see, instead of trying to hide their sin in the closet. KB

Well, I'd have to say that not greeting visitors at the city gates is pretty "out there for everyone to see, as well."
You really have no idea what you're talking about here.

 

[Agnostic75]

Edit: Deletion of duplicate post.

 

[Ken Brown]

Well, I'd have to say that not greeting visitors at the city gates is pretty "out there for everyone to see, as well."
You really have no idea what you're talking about here.

Hi sojourner, I'm pretty sure you will change your opinion about that some day. KB

 

[sojourner]

Hi sojourner, I'm pretty sure you will change your opinion about that some day. KB

I may. That's not really any of your concern, however. Neither is it any of your concern who sleeps with whom, or whether they find it morally laudable.

 

[Agnostic75]

Hi Agnostic75, the bonobo monkey is not the norm within the monkey world, they are as abnormal as homosexuals are in the human world. And I will admit that homosexual activities occur within the animal world, but this activity just reflects what transpires with humans. The majority of animals are heterosexual, just as the majority of humans are heterosexual, and even within the bonobo monkey community, there is a very common occurrence of adult and juvenile sexual interaction, so would you suggest that pedophilia be natural and acceptable based upon the activity of the bonobo monkey community? You want to justify the abnormality of homosexuality within the human race with the abnormality of homosexuality within the animal kingdom, and that reasoning or logic just doesn't stand up to the test of normal thinking.

I only brought up bonobo monkeys because you said that is was rare for animals to engage in same-sex behavior.

And no, I am not trying to justify homosexuality just because animals do it, but because monogamous, same-sex behavior is frequently beneficial for both people, and attempting abstinence for life, whether for homosexuals, or for heterosexuals, frequently causes serious physical, and emotional problems.

You use the word "abnormal" a lot, but it is very abnormal for people to practice abstinence for life. So, other than religious based abstinence for life, which often causes serious physical, and emotional problems even for religiously motivated people, you do not have any alternatives for homosexuals. Many things are abnormal, but are beneficial, such as having a high IQ, or being exceptionally good at a sport.

 

[sojourner]

I only brought up bonobo monkeys because you said that is was rare for animals to engage in same-sex behavior.

And no, I am not trying to justify homosexuality just because animals do it, but because monogamous, same-sex behavior is frequently beneficial for both people, and attempting abstinence for life, whether for homosexuals, or for heterosexuals, frequently causes serious physical, and emotional problems.

You use the word "abnormal" a lot, but it is very abnormal for people to practice abstinence for life. So, other than religious based abstinence for life, which often causes serious physical, and emotional problems even for religiously motivated people, you do not have any alternatives for homosexuals. Many things are abnormal, but are beneficial, such as having a high IQ, or being exceptionally good at a sport.

In his use of "abnormal," he's also ignoring the fact that homosexuality does not appear in the DSM IV as "abnormal behavior." It is completely normal.