Why did god create homosexuality?

[Ken Brown]

No, Ken, it really isn't as difficult as you're making it. Paul (a peer, not a scriptural text) reasoned with them the scriptures. That's what we've been trying to do with you, and that, O Best Beloved, was my point. You insist that you don't need peers to tell you what the texts say. But apparently, Paul's contemporaries did need that.

But they are not "the bible," are they? They (at that time) were individual texts, rolled into scrolls. "The bible" is a definitive and canonized collection that simply did not exist at that time.

Hi sojourner, I tried to leave in a very honorable and humble fashion from this thread (http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3377214-post296.html), and you tried to shame me for doing so, by saying I wasn't listening to those whom you think are my peers that are more knowledgeable than I. You chastised me for interpreting "ancient writings," and not being like the EARLY church where they had no bible, and just spoke to one another. You asked me: "What did the early church do, before they had a bible?" My response to that was where I pointed out your error by listing all of the Scriptures of where those in the EARLY church times quoted from and extensively used those HOLY SCRIPTURES that are found within the bible. Then you try to wiggle your way out of what you said by giving a "bible" not being in existence at that time??? That wasn't your point for making the comment about the EARLY church not having a bible. Your point was that a bible wasn't needed, just peers speaking about what they believed with no biblical source to go by. A biblical source wasn't necessary as long as you had "peers" speaking to each other.

So my good and faithful friend, you should come clean about this issue, and let me leave this thread in a honorable and humble fashion as I wanted to. KB

 

[George-ananda]

Why did god create homosexuality?

I'm going with the answer, God didn't; Karma did. (I'm a reincarnationist.) A long line of causes and effects stretching back eons caused things to be the way they are. Homosexuality is just one of thousands of variables between individuals. No two of us are alike.

The reason for differences to us seem random and sometimes unfair because all we can see is this current life.

 

[sojourner]

Hi sojourner, I tried to leave in a very honorable and humble fashion from this thread (http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3377214-post296.html), and you tried to shame me for doing so, by saying I wasn't listening to those whom you think are my peers that are more knowledgeable than I. You chastised me for interpreting "ancient writings," and not being like the EARLY church where they had no bible, and just spoke to one another. You asked me: "What did the early church do, before they had a bible?" My response to that was where I pointed out your error by listing all of the Scriptures of where those in the EARLY church times quoted from and extensively used those HOLY SCRIPTURES that are found within the bible. Then you try to wiggle your way out of what you said by giving a "bible" not being in existence at that time??? That wasn't your point for making the comment about the EARLY church not having a bible. Your point was that a bible wasn't needed, just peers speaking about what they believed with no biblical source to go by. A biblical source wasn't necessary as long as you had "peers" speaking to each other.

So my good and faithful friend, you should come clean about this issue, and let me leave this thread in a honorable and humble fashion as I wanted to. KB

No, you didn't. In fact, you're still trying to point out how much more you know than I do. You appear to be a "bible only" person, by what I'm reading here. When presented with extra-biblical facts, you seem to want to dismiss them by going straight back to what (you *believe*) the bible "says." My point was that, before there was "a bible," there were a bunch of scrolls that not many people could read, either because of illiteracy or because they were written in a foreign language. Therefore, not everyone had access to the texts. They had to rely on what their learned peers told them -- whether it was actually from the texts, or not. That practice appears to stand at odds with what you want to do. I was merely pointing out that, in the early days of the church, the faithful were engaging what you seem to be reluctant to engage in.

Your arguments are jejune, because they don't take advantage of proper biblical exegesis to arrive at what is actually meant by the texts. Your point that "homosexuality is a sin, because the bible says so" is moot.

Buh-bye, now.

 

[Latuwr]

Hi Tumbleweed41,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
You asserted:
"Arsenkoites and Malakos
As has been pointed out, more likely related to male prostitution, or male temple prostitutes.
But, centuries of mistranslation or misunderstanding cannot be fixed overnight."
Let's work right now to fix in or minds what the Torah (the Law) actually says. I have no expertise in the Hebrew language, but I can work with the Greek language. The LXX uses "arsen" in Genesis 1:27
27 So ELOHIM created man in his own image, in the image of ELOHIM created he him; male (Gk: arsen) and female created he them.
It is without a doubt that according to the Hebrew Scriptures that "arsen" indicates a male and not a female.
Now, let's look at koite. I understand that practicing sodomites do not like putting arsen and koite together. Why not? Oh, well, they give all kinds of reasons, but, despite all their reasons, here is what the Law says:
Leviticus 18:22
22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Understand that the Hebrew word "lie" when it is translated into the Greek language is a form of "kaimao" which means to fall asleep. Literally the command is this: You shall not fall asleep with a male as with a bedded (koite) wife, that is, a married woman.
Please understand that the English word, coitus, which means sexual intercourse, comes from the Latin which may arise from the Greek language, koite.
So, I am not ashamed to put the two Greek words together and without reservation state that male sexual intercourse is an abomination according the Torah (the Law), which, of course, is the unchanging word of ELOHIM!
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

 

[sojourner]

Hi Tumbleweed41,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
You asserted:
"Arsenkoites and Malakos
As has been pointed out, more likely related to male prostitution, or male temple prostitutes.
But, centuries of mistranslation or misunderstanding cannot be fixed overnight."
Let's work right now to fix in or minds what the Torah (the Law) actually says. I have no expertise in the Hebrew language, but I can work with the Greek language. The LXX uses "arsen" in Genesis 1:27
27 So ELOHIM created man in his own image, in the image of ELOHIM created he him; male (Gk: arsen) and female created he them.
It is without a doubt that according to the Hebrew Scriptures that "arsen" indicates a male and not a female.
Now, let's look at koite. I understand that practicing sodomites do not like putting arsen and koite together. Why not? Oh, well, they give all kinds of reasons, but, despite all their reasons, here is what the Law says:
Leviticus 18:22
22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Understand that the Hebrew word "lie" when it is translated into the Greek language is a form of "kaimao" which means to fall asleep. Literally the command is this: You shall not fall asleep with a male as with a bedded (koite) wife, that is, a married woman.
Please understand that the English word, coitus, which means sexual intercourse, comes from the Latin which may arise from the Greek language, koite.
So, I am not ashamed to put the two Greek words together and without reservation state that male sexual intercourse is an abomination according the Torah (the Law), which, of course, is the unchanging word of ELOHIM!
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

You have yet to show us why it's termed an "abomination."

 

[Latuwr]

Hi Sojourner,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
You wrote:
"You have yet to show us why it's termed an "abomination.""
Why is it , Sojourner, that you cannot believe what YAHWEH ELOHIM has commanded? Do you think that YAHWEH speaks so unclearly or that HE speaks with a forked tongue?
If I should tell you why the practice of male sexual intercourse is an abomination, do you accept by your question that this activity is against the Law of YAHWEH ELOHIM? If not, then why should I attempt to inform you concerning any abomination?
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

 

[dgirl1986]

Why did god create homosexuality?

I'm going with the answer, God didn't; Karma did. (I'm a reincarnationist.) A long line of causes and effects stretching back eons caused things to be the way they are. Homosexuality is just one of thousands of variables between individuals. No two of us are alike.

The reason for differences to us seem random and sometimes unfair because all we can see is this current life.

Would you say it is a result of good karma or bad karma and what is your reasoning for this?

 

[gzusfrk]

everyone needs something to overcome.

 

[George-ananda]

Would you say it is a result of good karma or bad karma and what is your reasoning for this?

Karma creates the right kind of learning experiences for a soul. It's impossible for us to understand how all the so-called good/bad karma plays itself out on the earth plane; it's too complicated.

 

[Curious George]

Hi Curious George, I'm not sure you fully understood my point. The term "sexual orientation" was used by me to help YOU understand my point. Timothy would have KNOWN for a certainty that men having sex with men was an abomination, because he had the Holy Scriptures since his youth. Timothy would have known that the "sexual orientation" of Urophilia, or Necrophilia would also be an abomination according to the Holy Scriptures that he had KNOWN since his youth, but he would not have necessarily know the term "sexual orientation" when speaking of those abominable acts. It's pretty simple, some have abominable "sexual orientations," which are clearly shown to be so by the Holy Scriptures, unless one "wrest" those Scriptures to mean something that they shouldn't. KB

And you miss my point. You use pieces of scripture to try to demonize something about which the pieces of scripture do not refer, thus you wrest scripture to fit your world view. compared to sojourner who has taken into account not just pieces of inapplicable scripture but all of scripture to speak wisdom. Thus while you are so intently focused on a couple of misinterpretations which must be distorted and extrapolated to make believe the Bible says something it does not, you have cast out the rest of the scriptures. So, I conclude that you are not a peer of sojourner, just as a person who memorizes lines of a prayer would not be the biblical peer of theologian or priest.

 

[Sha'irullah]

everyone needs something to overcome.

Ocercome? Are you serious?

Please explain how one overcomes a biological desire. This is like telling an individual to overcome his lack of biological predisposition to grow wings. .

 

[Curious George]

Ocercome? Are you serious?

Please explain how one overcomes a biological desire. This is like telling an individual to overcome his lack of biological predisposition to grow wings. .

Work in a bell shop, and ring them constantly.

 

[sojourner]

Hi Sojourner,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
You wrote:
"You have yet to show us why it's termed an "abomination.""
Why is it , Sojourner, that you cannot believe what YAHWEH ELOHIM has commanded? Do you think that YAHWEH speaks so unclearly or that HE speaks with a forked tongue?
If I should tell you why the practice of male sexual intercourse is an abomination, do you accept by your question that this activity is against the Law of YAHWEH ELOHIM? If not, then why should I attempt to inform you concerning any abomination?
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

Why do you believe God commanded it to be so? Because it's written in the bible? Then do you also believe that adulterers should be stoned?

The bible is an ancient, Near East document written by ancient, Near East people from an ancient, Near East context and understanding. Our cultural context is different from theirs. Therefore, when we read the texts, we have to do so with at least a bit of exegetical criticism. Otherwise, we simply don't know what to do with those pesky passages about how to treat our slaves, and the subtleties of levirate marriage.

Your post skimmed the surface of linguistics, but didn't even make a nod toward cultural anthropology.

The bible is full of themes of radical love and radical salvation. Creation is declared "good" by the writers of Genesis. We now know that homosexuality is both a normal sexual orientation and a health way for human beings to express love. The ancients didn't know that.

Linguistics are fine, but they're only part of the puzzle that we have to put together.

 

[sojourner]

everyone needs something to overcome.

Apparently, your post here needs to overcome scientific misunderstanding. Or perhaps you also still believe -- as the bible says -- that the earth is disc-shaped?

 

[Latuwr]

Hi Sojourner,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
Shabbat Shalom!
You asked:
"Why do you believe God commanded it to be so?"
According to your question, do you believe that YAHWEH ELOHIM commanded that men should not engage in male sexual intercourse? If you do believe so, then I will be more than willing to inform you why YAHWEH made such a commandment against male coitus, that is, arsenocoites.
Sojourner, do you believe the scripture (Leviticus 18:22) which says that YAHWEH prohibits male sexual intercourse?
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr
P.S. I have learned to not personally cast stones from My Messiah Yahushua!

 

[sojourner]

do you believe that YAHWEH ELOHIM commanded that men should not engage in male sexual intercourse?

No. I don't.

do you believe the scripture (Leviticus 18:22) which says that YAHWEH prohibits male sexual intercourse?

I believe it's there. I believe it's written there. I don't believe God wrote it, and I don't believe that the authors had any understanding of homosexuality as an orientation. I also don't believe they understood homosexual feelings to be either healthy or normal.

Now, that being said -- and knowing what we know about the biblical writers, why do you believe God would command such a thing?

 

[Latuwr]

Hi Sojourner,
Blessing to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
Shabbat Shalom!
You commented:
"I don't believe God wrote it"
In this your comment, you are correct. As far as I am aware, YAHWEH ELOHIM only wrote with HIS own finger in the Torah, the Ten Words. Even so, Moses wrote down the commands of YAHWEH that were given to him:
Leviticus 18:1
1 And YAHWEH spake unto Moses, saying, (please, if you will, read Leviticus 18)
The bottom line here, Sojourner, is this:
Leviticus 18:30
30 Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am YAHWEH your ELOHIM.
How about it, Sojourner, do you personally disagree with what YAHWEH has commanded through Moses in Leviticus 18?
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

 

[sojourner]

How about it, Sojourner, do you personally disagree with what YAHWEH has commanded through Moses in Leviticus 18?

I disagree that what was written is relevant to a culture that now knows homosexuality to be normal and healthy.

 

[Sha'irullah]

So far the only excuse I have no heard which I have been desiring is that "God created homosexuality as a joke" . Works for some

 

[dgirl1986]

So far the only excuse I have no heard which I have been desiring is that "God created homosexuality as a joke" . Works for some

Maybe he created it for entertainment value lol