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Why did god create homosexuality?

Sultan Of Swing

Well-Known Member
Clement of Alexandria was not Jesus of Nazareth -- nor even the biblical writers. "Natural aversion to women" =/= "homosexual orientation." Jesus was not talking about homosexual orientation when he speaks of "eunuchs." And to say that he was is dishonest and naive.

C'mon, Sultan -- you're a better man than this!

Yes, that would be dishonest and naive. I did not mean to imply Jesus was referring specifically to homosexuals, but could you not see the similarity between a natural orientation towards homosexuality and a natural aversion toward women, as Jesus was pointing out? The idea that there were men who were averse to women was not an alien thought for the Biblical writers. I do not see how men having natural homosexual inclinations would have influenced the Biblical writers much either.

Matthew 19:12 is Jesus' words in response to the apostles' notion that it is better for one to not marry, after Jesus condemns divorce, and Jesus points out that marriage is not for everyone because there are those who are born eunuchs.

Most people have natural inclinations toward some thing or another. Some people naturally have anger management issues or are prone to alcoholism. I don't see how this would have affected the Biblical writers' thoughts in any way, or vindicated the homosexual act for them. I mean, if the Apostle Paul knew for certain that there were those who had natural homosexual inclinations, do you really think that would have changed his or the other apostles' views on the homosexual acts themselves?
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Yes, that would be dishonest and naive. I did not mean to imply Jesus was referring specifically to homosexuals, but could you not see the similarity between a natural orientation towards homosexuality and a natural aversion toward women, as Jesus was pointing out? The idea that there were men who were averse to women was not an alien thought for the Biblical writers. I do not see how men having natural homosexual inclinations would have influenced the Biblical writers much either.
Once again: Homosexuality as an orientation was unknown in the ancient world.

Jesus also advocated for slavery in the bible. Shall we continue in such a system today?

"Natural" does not always indicate "ok." For example, some people are "naturally" attracted to children. That's what's called "a mental illness." Attraction for the same sex was similarly thought of then. now we know better, because we know more about the human psyche.
 

Ken Brown

Well-Known Member
God's commands through Jesus are to love God and love neighbor. that includes accepting people fully for who they are.

Hi sojourner, yes, but to love Elohim and love your neighbor, it requires keeping all of Elohim's commands:

Deu 7:9
(9) Know therefore that Yahweh thy Elohim, he is El, the faithful El, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

Deu 10:12
(12) And now, Israel, what doth Yahweh thy Elohim require of thee, but to fear Yahweh thy Elohim, to walk in all His ways, and to love him, and to serve Yahweh thy ELohim with all thy heart and with all thy soul,

Deu 11:22
(22) For if ye shall diligently keep all these commandments which I command you, to do them, to love Yahweh your Elohim, to walk in all his ways, and to cleave unto him;

Jos 22:5

(5) But take diligent heed to do the commandment and the law, which Moses the servant of Yahweh charged you, to love Yahweh your Elohim, and to walk in all his ways, and to keep his commandments, and to cleave unto him, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul.

Neh 1:5
(5) And said, I beseech thee, O Yahweh Elohim of heaven, the great and terrible El, that keepeth covenant and mercy for them that love him and observe his commandments:

Dan 9:4
(4) And I prayed unto Yahweh my Elohim, and made my confession, and said, O Yahweh, the great and dreadful El, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love Him, and to them that keep His commandments;

1Jn 5:2-3

(2) By this we know that we love the children of Elohim, when we love Elohim, and keep his commandments.
(3) For this is the love of Elohim, that we keep His commandments: and His commandments are not grievous.

Rom 13:8-10

(8) Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
(9) For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
(10) Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

So we are in perfect agreement Sojourner, and Yeshua also agrees in that IF one will not listen to what Moses wrote, they will not hear Him. So when Yeshua commands us to Love Elohim and our neighbor, He surely requires of us to love by keeping the commands. And one of those commands is that a man should not lay with a man as with a woman. KB
 

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
Yes, that would be dishonest and naive. I did not mean to imply Jesus was referring specifically to homosexuals, but could you not see the similarity between a natural orientation towards homosexuality and a natural aversion toward women, as Jesus was pointing out? The idea that there were men who were averse to women was not an alien thought for the Biblical writers. I do not see how men having natural homosexual inclinations would have influenced the Biblical writers much either.

Matthew 19:12 is Jesus' words in response to the apostles' notion that it is better for one to not marry, after Jesus condemns divorce, and Jesus points out that marriage is not for everyone because there are those who are born eunuchs.

Most people have natural inclinations toward some thing or another. Some people naturally have anger management issues or are prone to alcoholism. I don't see how this would have affected the Biblical writers' thoughts in any way, or vindicated the homosexual act for them. I mean, if the Apostle Paul knew for certain that there were those who had natural homosexual inclinations, do you really think that would have changed his or the other apostles' views on the homosexual acts themselves?

How does "natural aversion toward women" include lesbians and bisexual women?
 

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
It doesn't. That's not the point. What matters is that there was an acknowledgement of sexual orientation or natural tendencies of some kind apart from the norm.

Then a natural aversion toward women isn't synonymous with orientation. Women have orientations, too. Where does it say "natural aversion toward men"?
 

dust1n

Zindīq
It doesn't mean God individually designed and created our choices. Our choices are only possible because God allows them.

Our choices are only possible because he made them all.

Our choices can only be made because of God, and because God allows it.
And made all possible choices.

Does not mean He has directly created it, however.
Indirectly, directly, makes no difference to me. God was aware what would happen.

All things are only possible with God, and through Him, but it does not mean God individually designed our choices.
It don't know if God designed them, just that he made them, as the Bible says. I only follows that he designed them because he made all things knowing every single detail regarding how every decision to be made.

We have free will, and it is only because of God that we are able to exercise free will, thus our choices are only possible through Him. I don't see why you have to take that verse to mean God made the choices for us.
I don't see why you take that verse with the exception of "choices" or "consequences" or "results of wills" when it clearly makes no exceptions.
 
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dust1n

Zindīq
So after reading through the posts, I see that some have in some way suggested that God created homosexuality as a test of sorts. Well, if we are assuming the judeo chrstian God I could see that. But perhaps in a different light. If homosexuality is a test, I would suggest that it is a test to see if people who have homosexual feelings will deny the nature which the judeo christian God gave them or if they will honor it and find love despite hateful rhetoric and judgments from supposed Christians, despite misinterpretations and distortions of his supposed "word," despite people espousing condemnation and speaking for God. These people, like Job's friends, believe they can speak and judge for God.

:clap
 

Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
The point of my posts was that either way it doesn't make a difference...

Of course it makes a difference. It goes back to a point I made to the Baha'i earlier in this thread

Expecting gay people to be alone for life and never know love or closeness is cruel and sadistic
 

MoonWater

Warrior Bard
Premium Member
No, I said, We ALL have to choose between God and worldly desires. Worldly things pass, but God does not pass. who do you choose to be near too? another human who dies or the everlasting God?

Moreover, many of heterosexuals never experience sex. many who get married end up divorce and heart broken. many loose their partners because either he dies or cheats. It is vain imagination to rely on things that don't last. Many like each other as long as their spouse is good-looking to them. Once they get old, they don't wanna see her.

Personally i would rather be near another human who will die then be with any everlasting god who would create people a certain way and then tell them they can't act on the love they feel for the sake of some arbitrary test based solely on gender for no adequately explained reason. This is why i prefer what the goddess says according to many pagan religions, that "all acts of love are my rituals". I'll never understand the idea of how a god who is supposed to be all loving or is love itself would make any expression of love a sin. I don't believe there are any gods like that but if there were i wouldn't want anything to do with them.
 

gzusfrk

Christian
It has always brought about great confusion as to why Yahweh/Allah created homosexuality. He permitted all of the world to exist and designed each aspect about it but why would he create a sin which cannot be avoided even on the biological level.
This is easily equated to god punishing people for being of a certain ethnicity. It seems illogical that a god would punish his own creation for his own design
......... I was born a liar, but I overcame it through Jesus Christ. Did He create a liar I spose in a way He did ,Thats why He sent Him so that we could overcome .
 

Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
......... I was born a liar, but I overcame it through Jesus Christ. Did He create a liar I spose in a way He did ,Thats why He sent Him so that we could overcome .

Homosexuals are not cured, they are just brainwashed in Gay-Camps. I have been a Christian as long as you have perhaps and by far all I can say is that nothing taught by the general Fundamentalist Christian majority is true.
 
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