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Why Did God Create Humanity?

ThePainefulTruth

ThePainefulTruth

Romantic-Cynic
[QUOTE="Skwim, post: 4520317, member: 23688"But free will is dead in the water. An illusion at best. It's championed to save the concept of sin/salvation from going under.[/QUOTE]

So you're saying that free will is required for there to be sin and salvation? I agree. But in Christian theology, a human (human-god:rolleyes:) has to be sacrificed in place of our repentance--a repentance which both Jesus and John the Baptist preached was necessary for that salvation, and of course free will is necessary in order to adopt a repentant heart.
 
Skwim

Skwim

Veteran Member
ThePainefulTruth said:
So you're saying that free will is required for there to be sin and salvation? I agree. But in Christian theology, a human (human-god:rolleyes:) has to be sacrificed in place of our repentance--a repentance which both Jesus and John the Baptist preached was necessary for that salvation, and of course free will is necessary in order to adopt a repentant heart.
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Sorry, but no need can trump reality.
 
Skwim

Skwim

Veteran Member
ThePainefulTruth said:
Which is in no way an argument against free will being real.
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"I agree it wasn't an argument. It wasn't meant to be. 'Twas just a simple statement of fact.


In fact, arguing against free will is to argue against reality.
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To your mind's eye perhaps, but I don't think it is. About four years ago I challenged anyone to show me I was wrong about free will. You can read it HERE My point being that arguing against free will is to argue against an illusion.
 
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Aset's Flames

Aset's Flames

Viperine Asetian
Carlita said:
Probably. If you were god, why would you have created humanity (if you did)?
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I personally would not.

When Aset guided us into existance she did not know many of our flaws as she was not all powerful. I would proabably make a better version in humans' places.

Mostly because I think it would be good to have some company.
 
ThePainefulTruth

ThePainefulTruth

Romantic-Cynic
Skwim said:
"I agree it wasn't an argument. It wasn't meant to be. 'Twas just a simple statement of fact.
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If it's a fact, then there's necessarily a proof.

About four years ago I challenged anyone to show me I was wrong about free will. You can read it HERE My point being that arguing against free will is to argue against an illusion.
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Like the existence of God, the burden of proof, of whichever position, is on the declarant. You can't disprove it and I can't prove it. I can say though that there's no fathomable reason for God to have created us without it. You yourself suppose that God created us to relieve It's boredom. How could we do that without free will since without it we would just be God talking to Itself in response to what It had programmed us to say. it would still be boring because it would still be companionship with Itself. It's sort of like me arguing with people who don't believe in free will--thus declaring themselves to be meaningless.

Aset's Flames said:
Mostly because I think it would be good to have some company.
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Would any company be worthwhile that didn't have the ability to choose to be such company or not.
 
Skwim

Skwim

Veteran Member
ThePainefulTruth said:
If it's a fact, then there's necessarily a proof.
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Well, proof is best left to mathematics, logic, and liquor, but in any case, BINGO!

Like the existence of God, the burden of proof, of whichever position, is on the declarant. You can't disprove it and I can't prove it.
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Nope. No proof one way or the other, just simple reason, and I believe the short argument I linked to was fairly persuasive reasoning. I regret that you don't find it so, or at least raises questions.

I can say though that there's no fathomable reason for God to have created us without it.
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He had no choice. Free will, as I pointed out, is a bankrupt concept.

You yourself suppose that God created us to relieve It's boredom.
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Actually, knowing that most people here believe in free will, I only put this forward to generate debate within that context. Debate-wise, for a determinist like myself, it doesn't make any sense whatsoever. God can't really relieve his boredom.

Would any company be worthwhile that didn't have the ability to choose to be such company or not.
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Only if one isn't omniscient. Not knowing what's coming up next is the only redeeming aspect of our deterministic existence---well, that and the overriding illusion that we have free will---which is what makes company worthwhile. Poor god, however, having no free will himself, plus knowing what comes up next (the omniscience thing) makes even boredom unsolvable.
 
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U

Useless2015

Active Member
Unification said:
I can see that, but worship/reverence/praise of life, love, happiness, peace, thankfulness, etc. as opposed to needing attention and the stroking of a massive ego.
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That is correct but you need to understand that God does not need us(humans), we are the ones who need God.


Quran:
indeed, Allah is Free from need of you.
 
ThePainefulTruth

ThePainefulTruth

Romantic-Cynic
Skwim said:
Didn't say I wasn't serious about it. Think of it as a Democrat asking Republicans what they think of Donald Trump, and throwing in their opinion that he's a nut case.
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Ah, now you tell me. It would have been a lot more facile to just admit you were a lib in the first place. BTW, there isn't a Democrat in existence that has an actual sense of humor, and won't without a sense of irony transplant.
 
U

Useless2015

Active Member
Skwim said:
Don't need him for eating soup. So we now have "Everything -1." Need I go on?
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If you were to ask for solid evidence for the existence of God in your life or anyone else for that matter, i can't provide it. I might go ahead and try but you and i both know there is no fysical evidence for God. So what is the point really..?
 
U

Useless2015

Active Member
Skwim said:
To point out that your reply "everything" was a gross exaggeration. And perhaps you might want to try again. What do we need god for?
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If God created the Universe than God is running all affairs. If God would move the sun an inch further ,we would all be dead due to the fact that it would be too cold. This shows that we need God for everything. I can name up endless reasons why we need God and 0 reasons why we dont need God.
 
HeatherAnn

HeatherAnn

Active Member
Why did God create humanity?

First off - who/what is God?
Anybody answer that yet?
I tend to think along the lines of Moses, Buddha, Jesus, Gottfried Leibniz, who saw that God is consciousness and this universe is conscious-based. God is "I AM THAT I AM" - that consciousness aware of itself. "The kingdom of God is within you."

So, why would consciousness create anything?
Why do you create some of the things you think about?
I'd like to know...
 
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