Not sure about what correlation you're seeing, but in any case, I suspect you meant to say "anti Islam".
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Why did the Israel's neighbors attack it in May 1948?
- Thread starter LuisDantas
- Start date
Not sure about what correlation you're seeing, but in any case, I suspect you meant to say "anti Islam".
Gday icehorse,
Excuse 2 : But Hamas/PLO is evil !
All those horrific things were done by Israelis, NOT Hamas.
None of it is excused by what Hamas may have done.
Some Jews did kill some Nazis - did that justify the Holocaust ?
There is no justification for the current Holocaust on Palestinians.
Kapyong
Excuse 2 : But Hamas/PLO is evil !
All those horrific things were done by Israelis, NOT Hamas.
None of it is excused by what Hamas may have done.
Some Jews did kill some Nazis - did that justify the Holocaust ?
There is no justification for the current Holocaust on Palestinians.
Kapyong
Gday all,
Well, here are the facts -
But so far, no-one has here has refuted these facts, not addressed them, or even quoted them.
Why is that ?
Perhaps those readers who are well informed about the issue realise they are all true ?
So,
if no-one can refute these facts, then I suggest we agree they are all true and move on.
OK ?
Kapyong
Well, here are the facts -
- Israelis kill about seven times more Palestinians than Israelis are killed.
- Israelis wound about seven times more Palestinians than Israelis are wounded.
- Israelis kill about fifteen times more Palestinian children than Israeli children are killed.
- Israel has been named in 77 UN Resolutions. Palestine just one.
- Israel has imprisoned (and tortures) about 6,700 Palestinians. Palestinians have no imprisoned Israelis.
- Israel has kidnapped, imprisoned and even tortured about 400 Palestinians youngsters. Palestinians, none.
- Israelis have destroyed at least 28,000 Palestinians homes. Palestinians have destroyed no Israeli homes.
- Israelis occupy 261 illegal settlements on Palestinian land. Palestinians have no settlements on Israeli land.
- Israel receives over $3 billion (maybe $5 billion soon) in arms from the US each year. Palestine gets $0.
- Israel is an occupying power in total military control of all Palestinians. Palestinians are an occupied people with no control of their own lives.
- Israel has possibly the most advanced hi-tech army in the world. Palestinians have rocks, rifles, and some rockets which rarely kill.
- Israelis killed thousands of Palestinians (mostly civilians) 'mowing the grass' in Gaza 2014. Because Palestinians had killed three Israelis.
- Israel is a very powerful nation, having politically captured the US. Palestine is weak and down-trodden and denied to be a state.
- Israel is protected in the UN Security Council by the US. Palestine has only recently achieved even minor status in the UN.
- Israelis dominate the banking sector in the US, and are influential elsewhere. Not so the Palestinians.
- Israelis largely control the mainstream media in the West. Palestinians have no influence.
- Israel claims the land based on their ancient scriptures. But Israel took the land by force from the Palestinian's ancestors, the Canaanites - according to those same scriptures.
- Israel was only created in 1948, following the Zionist's arrival in the 1800s. Palestinians have been living there for many centuries.
- Israel has grown by gobbling up about 80% of Palestine since 1948. Palestine has lost that territory.
- Israel is erasing Palestine. Palestine is not erasing Israel.
But so far, no-one has here has refuted these facts, not addressed them, or even quoted them.
Why is that ?
Perhaps those readers who are well informed about the issue realise they are all true ?
So,
if no-one can refute these facts, then I suggest we agree they are all true and move on.
OK ?
Kapyong
Gday icehorse and all
Let's 'start' ?
So far you have ignored all the much evidence and argument I have presented, including the many important facts I listed.
Why ?
Let's recap -
Israel invaded and captured most of Palestine by force, through ethnic cleansing of the locals.
The locals and their friends failed to take the land back.
Over the years the invaders have gobbled up even more, leaving the locals maybe 20% of their land.
The locals are desperately fighting for the very existence of their home-land.
The invaders regularly massacre, murder, snipe, kidnap, torture, destroy, demolish and poison the locals and their land.
Yet you BLAME the VICTIM !
Sure, the locals WANT to get rid of the INVADERS,
and now you claim that makes it all their OWN FAULT ?
So, you think it's OK for the invaders to invade and gobble up the land,
because the locals DARE to call for the invaders to be gone ?
The invaders are ACTUALLY wiping Palestine off the map,
and you blame the victims for even WANTING to see the invaders gone ?
Would you support the WW2 Nazi holocaust against the Jews, just because the Jews WANTED the Nazis gone ?
Or just because some Jews DARED to fight back ?
Why support the Israeli Erasure of Palestine just because the locals DARE to want the invaders gone ?
Or just because some local Freedom Fighters are trying to DEFEND their own land ?
Israel stole Palestine by force in a war of aggression and ethnic cleansing.
Why are you blaming the victims and supporting the invaders ?
Kapyong
Let's 'start' ?
So far you have ignored all the much evidence and argument I have presented, including the many important facts I listed.
Why ?
Let's recap -
Israel invaded and captured most of Palestine by force, through ethnic cleansing of the locals.
The locals and their friends failed to take the land back.
Over the years the invaders have gobbled up even more, leaving the locals maybe 20% of their land.
The locals are desperately fighting for the very existence of their home-land.
The invaders regularly massacre, murder, snipe, kidnap, torture, destroy, demolish and poison the locals and their land.
Yet you BLAME the VICTIM !
Sure, the locals WANT to get rid of the INVADERS,
and now you claim that makes it all their OWN FAULT ?
So, you think it's OK for the invaders to invade and gobble up the land,
because the locals DARE to call for the invaders to be gone ?
The invaders are ACTUALLY wiping Palestine off the map,
and you blame the victims for even WANTING to see the invaders gone ?
Would you support the WW2 Nazi holocaust against the Jews, just because the Jews WANTED the Nazis gone ?
Or just because some Jews DARED to fight back ?
Why support the Israeli Erasure of Palestine just because the locals DARE to want the invaders gone ?
Or just because some local Freedom Fighters are trying to DEFEND their own land ?
Israel stole Palestine by force in a war of aggression and ethnic cleansing.
Why are you blaming the victims and supporting the invaders ?
Kapyong
Flankerl
Well-Known Member
I chuckled.
Oy vey the Goyim found out!
No my best is usually bread with the blood of gentile children.
Been here far too long to know which battles I should fight.
Not surprisingly its the same outspoken anti Jewish posters from other threads, that chime in on the pro Palestine posts. So the same as always.
Khaybar Khaybar ya yahud, Jaish Muhammad sa ya'ud!
That is very much true, and a chief reason why is because I have yet to see the many people who oppose Israel present much more than accusations.
To this day I am still lacking on a proper answer to the question presented in the OP. Of particularly note is that an actual proposal for improving situations from where they stand now has not been offered and is rarely even discussed from anyone that accuse 1948 Israel.
I truly end up feeling that the accusations are enough for them. And that will never be enough for me.
Gday all,
Here is an instructive example of how the Israelis are ' taking proper care of ' local Palestinians -
Palestinian man Abed al-Fatah al-Sharif was executed by Israeli Medic Sgt Elor Azarya, on camera :
(This is not an argument video, not a propaganda video - this is an EVIDENCE video that all readers should view to be aware of the facts.)
Source : http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/w...kick-knife-body-man-executed-hebron-741769992
There had been a scuffle ending with al-Sharif lying wounded and helpless on the ground, and some IDF soldiers wounded.
Israeli medics arrived, quickly treated the Israelis to an ambulance, while leaving al-Sharif to bleed out on the ground, un-attended - standard practice.
After some minutes of no action, Azarya walked up to al-Sharif and executed him with a shot to the head - as shown in the video above.
Then someone threw a knife near the dead victim, allowing Azarya to later claim he 'feared for his safety' - also standard practice :
(Above is just an image here, not a clickable video.)
Sgt Elor Azarya was a MEDIC.
The huge Israeli rally in his defence heard he was 'moral' with a 'big heart', that he was always ready to help any 'human being in need'.
But his response to a Palestinian man lying helpless and wounded on the ground, bleeding to death - was to execute him with a shot to the head.
Would readers like to address that shocking incident and what it means ?
Or just steadfastly ignore it, like many others before it, while again endlessly repeating Excuse #2 ' But Hamas ! '
Apparently al-Sharif was not a 'human being in need ', not to Medic Sgt Azarya.
So,
do Israelis somehow believe that Palestinians are lesser humans than Jews ?
Tragically yes - some do believe that, shocking as that may sound.
The books of some Jewish schools such as Chabad's Tanya (תניא) e.g. and others, are said to teach of a Jewish Soul, sometimes called the 'Nephesh Elokis' apparently, which only Jews have - and which makes all non-Jews inferior.
Of course, I am no expert on all this, and apparently I am just 'stupid', so perhaps some of our Jewish readers, like Flankerl, might like to clarify all this by answering some questions for us -
No really, I do - because to this point all I have seen is the usual spam - abuses and excuses, preaching and propaganda, and sweeping blanket rejections and denials and disbelief.
But so far, not a single one of the pro-Israelis posting here have even addressed one of my specific points or answered any of my key questions, let alone refuted any of my facts - or even acknowledge any of the important evidence I have cited.
Are we going to discuss and debate the 1948-49 Israeli capture of Palestine or not ?
Or will the pro-Israelis just ignore my posts, declare their own victory, and then leave town all righteous in their own rigid rectitude - with probably a Parthian personal shot of abuse as they ride off into the sunset - having despatched that dastardly anti-Semite who dared to criticise the Holy Cow.
The Holy Cow of Israel.
Kapyong
Here is an instructive example of how the Israelis are ' taking proper care of ' local Palestinians -
Palestinian man Abed al-Fatah al-Sharif was executed by Israeli Medic Sgt Elor Azarya, on camera :
Source : http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/w...kick-knife-body-man-executed-hebron-741769992
There had been a scuffle ending with al-Sharif lying wounded and helpless on the ground, and some IDF soldiers wounded.
Israeli medics arrived, quickly treated the Israelis to an ambulance, while leaving al-Sharif to bleed out on the ground, un-attended - standard practice.
After some minutes of no action, Azarya walked up to al-Sharif and executed him with a shot to the head - as shown in the video above.
Then someone threw a knife near the dead victim, allowing Azarya to later claim he 'feared for his safety' - also standard practice :
(Above is just an image here, not a clickable video.)
Sgt Elor Azarya was a MEDIC.
The huge Israeli rally in his defence heard he was 'moral' with a 'big heart', that he was always ready to help any 'human being in need'.
But his response to a Palestinian man lying helpless and wounded on the ground, bleeding to death - was to execute him with a shot to the head.
Would readers like to address that shocking incident and what it means ?
Or just steadfastly ignore it, like many others before it, while again endlessly repeating Excuse #2 ' But Hamas ! '
Apparently al-Sharif was not a 'human being in need ', not to Medic Sgt Azarya.
So,
do Israelis somehow believe that Palestinians are lesser humans than Jews ?
Tragically yes - some do believe that, shocking as that may sound.
The books of some Jewish schools such as Chabad's Tanya (תניא) e.g. and others, are said to teach of a Jewish Soul, sometimes called the 'Nephesh Elokis' apparently, which only Jews have - and which makes all non-Jews inferior.
Of course, I am no expert on all this, and apparently I am just 'stupid', so perhaps some of our Jewish readers, like Flankerl, might like to clarify all this by answering some questions for us -
- do you believe in a Jewish Soul, or anything else, which makes Jews superior to non-Jews ?
- how widespread amongst Israelis is this belief in the superiority of Jews ?
- is this belief widespread in the IDF ?
- Is this belief found in Netanyahu's extreme right-wing cabinet ?
- do you think Medic Sgt Azarya believed al-Sharif was not really a 'human being ' ?
- do you support Medic Sgt Azarya's execution of the helpless al-Sharif ?
- do you think Medic Sgt Azarya's safety was threatened by the wounded al-Sharif lying helpless on the ground ?
- would you support a Palestinian medic executing a wounded helpless Israeli ?
- are Israeli lives worth more than Palestinian lives ?
No really, I do - because to this point all I have seen is the usual spam - abuses and excuses, preaching and propaganda, and sweeping blanket rejections and denials and disbelief.
But so far, not a single one of the pro-Israelis posting here have even addressed one of my specific points or answered any of my key questions, let alone refuted any of my facts - or even acknowledge any of the important evidence I have cited.
Are we going to discuss and debate the 1948-49 Israeli capture of Palestine or not ?
Or will the pro-Israelis just ignore my posts, declare their own victory, and then leave town all righteous in their own rigid rectitude - with probably a Parthian personal shot of abuse as they ride off into the sunset - having despatched that dastardly anti-Semite who dared to criticise the Holy Cow.
The Holy Cow of Israel.
Kapyong
Gday icehorse and all
And yet you are unable to point to a single weak spot.
Nor even address any point specifically.
Kapyong
And yet you are unable to point to a single weak spot.
Nor even address any point specifically.
Kapyong
Gday columbus and all
Actually Tom/columbus, I am fully aware of the Arab attempt to retake the Palestinian land taken by force by Israel in 1948-49 (an attempt which failed.)
Which you may have realised had you read my posts up-thread where I discussed it. May I politely suggest you read my posts which are chock-full of heady information, so we can move on to discussing the facts.
So, now that you are aware that I have indeed addressed that issue, I look forward to you taking me seriously, especially with regard to the important facts shown in this map :
Israel slowly bought up the (small) white area.
Then they invaded and captured by force the (large) pale green area in 1948-49.
The Arabs defended Palestine and tried to take back the land.
But failed.
Since then Israel has gobbled up more of Palestine, leaving maybe 20%.
The Palestinian Freedom Fighters are in a desperate struggle defending the very existence of their country.
Against an aggressive invader who took the land by force using ethnic cleansing.
Invaders who commit horrific crimes against humanity upon the locals.
Incredibly,
when the Palestinians dare to fight back, they are then BLAMED for their own massacres and murders.
Invasion is Peace !
Defence is Terrorism !
Ethnic Cleansing is Democracy !
Kapyong
Actually Tom/columbus, I am fully aware of the Arab attempt to retake the Palestinian land taken by force by Israel in 1948-49 (an attempt which failed.)
Which you may have realised had you read my posts up-thread where I discussed it. May I politely suggest you read my posts which are chock-full of heady information, so we can move on to discussing the facts.
So, now that you are aware that I have indeed addressed that issue, I look forward to you taking me seriously, especially with regard to the important facts shown in this map :
Israel slowly bought up the (small) white area.
Then they invaded and captured by force the (large) pale green area in 1948-49.
The Arabs defended Palestine and tried to take back the land.
But failed.
Since then Israel has gobbled up more of Palestine, leaving maybe 20%.
The Palestinian Freedom Fighters are in a desperate struggle defending the very existence of their country.
Against an aggressive invader who took the land by force using ethnic cleansing.
Invaders who commit horrific crimes against humanity upon the locals.
Incredibly,
when the Palestinians dare to fight back, they are then BLAMED for their own massacres and murders.
Invasion is Peace !
Defence is Terrorism !
Ethnic Cleansing is Democracy !
Kapyong
You cherry-pick an incident, and then wed a disgusting and willful lie with an outrageous generalization. It's called antisemitic demagoguery, and it pretty much says everything that one needs to know about both your agenda and your ethics.
For the rest of you, see, for example, The Electronic Intifada, a news source hardly subject to claims of an Israeli bias. Also available is this Wikipedia entry.
Last edited:
rosends
Well-Known Member
I am presenting some responses. I don't post these to try and convince the person who wrote them. He is beyond help. I present them as resources for those who want to learn more. I'm not going to be monitoring this because I sense that there will be a whole lot of "that source is biased" answers instead of actual consideration of what the source says. But, because I hope that one person who wants to know more will now have some additional places to look, I will post this (claims are in italics).
-----------------
Your claim: Israel STOLE the land from Palestine by force - by terrorism and trickery.
Response: No, Israel was declared pursuant to various international documents, and voted on by the UN, then attacked by Arab forces. Land was bought, land was set aside by the international community and land was claimed during a defensive war.
Feel free to read some of the links I provide, and research the source material
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths3/MFmandate.html#5
Your claim: Iraqian, Syrian, Egyptian and Jordanian forces then joined up to support their Palestinian friends and expel the invader Israel.
They didn't 'invade' Israel !
They DEFENDED Palestine from invasion (or tried to.)
Surely you can see that ?
Response: There was no “Israel” to do any invading. People who lived there became a country and were already there. How can one invade where one already lives? [for background try Allen Z. Hertz, “Aboriginal Rights of the Jewish People,” American Thinker, (October 30, 2011).]
Local Arabs were also the result of immigrant influx over time, not indigenous http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_opinion.php?id=16307
Invading armies from outside came in with the intent to destroy the new country. That’s an invasion.
[for some background, try Security Council Official Records, Special Supplement, (1948), p. 20.]
Your claim: A strong and powerful nation invaded and stole much of a weak and down-trodden nation.
Response: There was no “strong an powerful nation” to do the invading. There were people who lived there, who were being massacred.
Palestine Post, (January 2, 7, 27; April 1; May 1, 1948).
Netanel Lorch, One Long War, (Jerusalem: Keter Books, 1976), p. 47; Ralph Patai, ed., Encyclopedia of Zionism and Israel, (NY: McGraw Hill, 1971), pp. 307--308.
Arabs at the time admitted that they were the aggressors:
Security Council Official Records, S/Agenda/58, (April 16, 1948), p. 19.
John Bagot Glubb, A Soldier with the Arabs, (London: Staughton and Hodder, 1957), p. 79.
Your claim: Since then they have continued to erase and gobble up 80% of Palestine.
Response: What do you mean by “Palestine”? Do you mean the geographic region found on ancient maps? http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_early_palestine_name_origin.php
Do you think it was ever a country of its own? http://www.science.co.il/History-Palestine.php
Your claim: Why isn't everyone outraged ?
Two reasons mainly -
o most people are not aware of the facts
o most people swallow the pervasive pro-Israeli propaganda
Response: The lack of outrage is because many people are aware of actual history and facts. Calling anything cited from history which casts doubt on your statements “Pro-Israeli propaganda” is a convenient way of not having to deal with truth.
Your claim: Israel is very powerful, having politically captured the US - Israel controls US foreign policy (e.g. they just increased US military aid from $3 billion to $5 billion per year - Palestine get $0.)
Response: This is a standard conspiracy theory. If it is where your thoughts reside then there is no reason to try and help you. You have decided that Israel controls the US politically (just to help you out, the basic term conspiracy nuts like to use is the “ZOG.” I’m sure you will look that up). In terms of dollars, you might want to read this report https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RS22967.pdf
If you want to wonder why “Palestine” doesn’t get military aid then you can wonder why the US doesn’t give military aid to Iran and Syria. Egypt gets 1.3 million dollars per year.
Your claim: Israel dominates the military-industrial-media-banking-pharma complex.
Response: Ah, the heart of it…Israel controls the media and the banking etc. Again, if that’s the conspiracy you want to wrap yourself in, no facts will disabuse you. I’m glad, though, that you maintain that it is Israel which controls these industries and not any religious group, because that would be ridiculous. Of course, Israel proudly presents innovations in pharmaceuticals and technology and military fields. Hard work pays off.
Your claim: The State of Israel is bringing a new Holocaust down on Palestine.
Response: There is no “Palestine” bring a holocaust down on. There is no systematic genocide of a people because of their ethnicity. Using the term “holocaust” reflects a deep lack of understanding of the events in Germany before and during WWII. But that would take a separate post to address.
Your claim: Israelis kill about seven times more Palestinians than Israelis are killed.
Response: So you think that there should be a one-to-one equivalence? If someone blows up a pizza shop in Jerusalem, Israel should only kill precisely the same number? Got it.
Your claim: Israelis wound about seven times more Palestinians than Israelis are wounded.
Response: Arabs also use people as human shields which leads to injuries
(I hope your Arabic is good enough to understand)
Your claim: Israelis kill about fifteen times more Palestinian children than Israeli children are killed.
Response: Well, when you glorify child deaths (
) or hide behind children,
sadly, children get hurt.
Your claim: Israel has been named in 77 UN Resolutions. Palestine just one.
Response: True. And the UN, as a body based in voting, has more Arab nations that Israeli ones so by simple democracy, Israel will be named in passed resolutions more. Of course, this is the UN which has the greatest human rights offenders on the HRC. Strange, that Israel, so adept at controlling governments, doesn’t control the UN…
Your claim: Israel has imprisoned (and tortures) about 6,700 Palestinians. Palestinians have no imprisoned Israelis.
Response: Criminals ARE imprisoned. Sadly, when Arab forces have captured Israelis, they don’t imprison them. Just kill them https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Ramallah_lynching . Well, there is also the case of Gilad Shalit but I’ll skip that right now.
Your claim: Israel has kidnapped, imprisoned and even tortured about 400 Palestinians youngsters. Palestinians, none.
Response: When a “youngster” throws concrete at passing cars, he is going to be imprisoned. When Arabs take Israeli children, there is no prison involved. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_kidnapping_and_murder_of_Israeli_teenagers
Your claim: Israelis have destroyed at least 28,000 Palestinians homes. Palestinians have destroyed no Israeli homes.
Response: Homes of family of terrorists are destroyed in Israel. This might inspire some not to be terrorists. Go figure. And, of course, one can destroy a home without destroying a house http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/meast/03/13/west.bank.family.killed/ but if you prefer the more traditional idea, then https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Israel–Gaza_conflict#/media/File:House_in_Israel_Destroyed_by_Hamas_Rocket_(14713208821).jpg
Your claim: Israelis occupy 261 illegal settlements on Palestinian land. Palestinians have no settlements on Israeli land.
Response: There is no “Palestinian” land, and no occupation. Check out some history and the proper use of words http://www.jcpa.org/jl/vp470.htm
Your claim: Israel is an occupying power in total military control of all Palestinians. Palestinians are an occupied people with no control of their own lives.
Response: Not only isn’t there an “occupation,” not only isn’t there a distinct and historical “Palestinian” and not only is there no “total military control” but many Arabs in Israel prefer the Israeli “control” http://www.breitbart.com/national-s...eli-arabs-prefer-israeli-rule-to-palestinian/
Your claim: Israel has possibly the most advanced hi-tech army in the world. Palestinians have rocks, rifles, and some rockets which rarely kill.
Response: Another ‘equivalence’ argument. If I am attacked with a rocket that has no guidance system and kills indiscriminately, I should use the same against the aggressor. If my enemy tunnels under my country and stabs the elderly, I should limit myself to that sort of response. Brilliant.
Your claim: Israelis killed thousands of Palestinians (mostly civilians) 'mowing the grass' in Gaza 2014. Because Palestinians had killed three Israelis.
Response: Lots wrong with this. While I doubt you will read up on it, for anyone still following this message, feel free to read some statistics and research. http://jcpa.org/casualties-gaza-war/
[I am skipping over repetitions of the ‘Zionist conspiracy to control the media and banks’ claims]
Your claim: Israel claims the land based on their ancient scriptures. But Israel took the land by force from the Palestinian's ancestors, the Canaanites - according to those same scriptures.
Response: strange how the Arabs, themselves, don’t agree with you http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths3/MFroots.html#3
Your claim: Israel was only created in 1948, following the Zionist's arrival in the 1800s. Palestinians have been living there for many centuries.
Response: The Mandate for Palestine reads, “Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connexion of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country;
Note the use of the words “historical” and “reconstituting”. The “Palestinians” living there were consistently Jewish. http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~samuel/presence.html (MAPS!) and Dan Bahat, ed. Twenty Centuries of Jewish Life in the Holy Land, (Jerusalem: The Israel Economist, 1976
Your claim: Israel is erasing Palestine. Palestine is not erasing Israel.
Response: Given a chance, Arabs WOULD erase Israel. Note the slogan “From the river to the sea…” That includes a whole lot more than just Judea and Samaria. http://palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=157&doc_id=11319
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-hamas-israel-idUSKBN0JS0LO20141215
Your claim: if no-one can refute these facts, then I suggest we agree they are all true and move on.
OK ?
Response: Consider them refuted. Move on, OK?
-----------------
Your claim: Israel STOLE the land from Palestine by force - by terrorism and trickery.
Response: No, Israel was declared pursuant to various international documents, and voted on by the UN, then attacked by Arab forces. Land was bought, land was set aside by the international community and land was claimed during a defensive war.
Feel free to read some of the links I provide, and research the source material
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths3/MFmandate.html#5
Your claim: Iraqian, Syrian, Egyptian and Jordanian forces then joined up to support their Palestinian friends and expel the invader Israel.
They didn't 'invade' Israel !
They DEFENDED Palestine from invasion (or tried to.)
Surely you can see that ?
Response: There was no “Israel” to do any invading. People who lived there became a country and were already there. How can one invade where one already lives? [for background try Allen Z. Hertz, “Aboriginal Rights of the Jewish People,” American Thinker, (October 30, 2011).]
Local Arabs were also the result of immigrant influx over time, not indigenous http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_opinion.php?id=16307
Invading armies from outside came in with the intent to destroy the new country. That’s an invasion.
[for some background, try Security Council Official Records, Special Supplement, (1948), p. 20.]
Your claim: A strong and powerful nation invaded and stole much of a weak and down-trodden nation.
Response: There was no “strong an powerful nation” to do the invading. There were people who lived there, who were being massacred.
Palestine Post, (January 2, 7, 27; April 1; May 1, 1948).
Netanel Lorch, One Long War, (Jerusalem: Keter Books, 1976), p. 47; Ralph Patai, ed., Encyclopedia of Zionism and Israel, (NY: McGraw Hill, 1971), pp. 307--308.
Arabs at the time admitted that they were the aggressors:
Security Council Official Records, S/Agenda/58, (April 16, 1948), p. 19.
John Bagot Glubb, A Soldier with the Arabs, (London: Staughton and Hodder, 1957), p. 79.
Your claim: Since then they have continued to erase and gobble up 80% of Palestine.
Response: What do you mean by “Palestine”? Do you mean the geographic region found on ancient maps? http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_early_palestine_name_origin.php
Do you think it was ever a country of its own? http://www.science.co.il/History-Palestine.php
Your claim: Why isn't everyone outraged ?
Two reasons mainly -
o most people are not aware of the facts
o most people swallow the pervasive pro-Israeli propaganda
Response: The lack of outrage is because many people are aware of actual history and facts. Calling anything cited from history which casts doubt on your statements “Pro-Israeli propaganda” is a convenient way of not having to deal with truth.
Your claim: Israel is very powerful, having politically captured the US - Israel controls US foreign policy (e.g. they just increased US military aid from $3 billion to $5 billion per year - Palestine get $0.)
Response: This is a standard conspiracy theory. If it is where your thoughts reside then there is no reason to try and help you. You have decided that Israel controls the US politically (just to help you out, the basic term conspiracy nuts like to use is the “ZOG.” I’m sure you will look that up). In terms of dollars, you might want to read this report https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RS22967.pdf
If you want to wonder why “Palestine” doesn’t get military aid then you can wonder why the US doesn’t give military aid to Iran and Syria. Egypt gets 1.3 million dollars per year.
Your claim: Israel dominates the military-industrial-media-banking-pharma complex.
Response: Ah, the heart of it…Israel controls the media and the banking etc. Again, if that’s the conspiracy you want to wrap yourself in, no facts will disabuse you. I’m glad, though, that you maintain that it is Israel which controls these industries and not any religious group, because that would be ridiculous. Of course, Israel proudly presents innovations in pharmaceuticals and technology and military fields. Hard work pays off.
Your claim: The State of Israel is bringing a new Holocaust down on Palestine.
Response: There is no “Palestine” bring a holocaust down on. There is no systematic genocide of a people because of their ethnicity. Using the term “holocaust” reflects a deep lack of understanding of the events in Germany before and during WWII. But that would take a separate post to address.
Your claim: Israelis kill about seven times more Palestinians than Israelis are killed.
Response: So you think that there should be a one-to-one equivalence? If someone blows up a pizza shop in Jerusalem, Israel should only kill precisely the same number? Got it.
Your claim: Israelis wound about seven times more Palestinians than Israelis are wounded.
Response: Arabs also use people as human shields which leads to injuries
Your claim: Israelis kill about fifteen times more Palestinian children than Israeli children are killed.
Response: Well, when you glorify child deaths (
Your claim: Israel has been named in 77 UN Resolutions. Palestine just one.
Response: True. And the UN, as a body based in voting, has more Arab nations that Israeli ones so by simple democracy, Israel will be named in passed resolutions more. Of course, this is the UN which has the greatest human rights offenders on the HRC. Strange, that Israel, so adept at controlling governments, doesn’t control the UN…
Your claim: Israel has imprisoned (and tortures) about 6,700 Palestinians. Palestinians have no imprisoned Israelis.
Response: Criminals ARE imprisoned. Sadly, when Arab forces have captured Israelis, they don’t imprison them. Just kill them https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Ramallah_lynching . Well, there is also the case of Gilad Shalit but I’ll skip that right now.
Your claim: Israel has kidnapped, imprisoned and even tortured about 400 Palestinians youngsters. Palestinians, none.
Response: When a “youngster” throws concrete at passing cars, he is going to be imprisoned. When Arabs take Israeli children, there is no prison involved. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_kidnapping_and_murder_of_Israeli_teenagers
Your claim: Israelis have destroyed at least 28,000 Palestinians homes. Palestinians have destroyed no Israeli homes.
Response: Homes of family of terrorists are destroyed in Israel. This might inspire some not to be terrorists. Go figure. And, of course, one can destroy a home without destroying a house http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/meast/03/13/west.bank.family.killed/ but if you prefer the more traditional idea, then https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Israel–Gaza_conflict#/media/File:House_in_Israel_Destroyed_by_Hamas_Rocket_(14713208821).jpg
Your claim: Israelis occupy 261 illegal settlements on Palestinian land. Palestinians have no settlements on Israeli land.
Response: There is no “Palestinian” land, and no occupation. Check out some history and the proper use of words http://www.jcpa.org/jl/vp470.htm
Your claim: Israel is an occupying power in total military control of all Palestinians. Palestinians are an occupied people with no control of their own lives.
Response: Not only isn’t there an “occupation,” not only isn’t there a distinct and historical “Palestinian” and not only is there no “total military control” but many Arabs in Israel prefer the Israeli “control” http://www.breitbart.com/national-s...eli-arabs-prefer-israeli-rule-to-palestinian/
Your claim: Israel has possibly the most advanced hi-tech army in the world. Palestinians have rocks, rifles, and some rockets which rarely kill.
Response: Another ‘equivalence’ argument. If I am attacked with a rocket that has no guidance system and kills indiscriminately, I should use the same against the aggressor. If my enemy tunnels under my country and stabs the elderly, I should limit myself to that sort of response. Brilliant.
Your claim: Israelis killed thousands of Palestinians (mostly civilians) 'mowing the grass' in Gaza 2014. Because Palestinians had killed three Israelis.
Response: Lots wrong with this. While I doubt you will read up on it, for anyone still following this message, feel free to read some statistics and research. http://jcpa.org/casualties-gaza-war/
[I am skipping over repetitions of the ‘Zionist conspiracy to control the media and banks’ claims]
Your claim: Israel claims the land based on their ancient scriptures. But Israel took the land by force from the Palestinian's ancestors, the Canaanites - according to those same scriptures.
Response: strange how the Arabs, themselves, don’t agree with you http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths3/MFroots.html#3
Your claim: Israel was only created in 1948, following the Zionist's arrival in the 1800s. Palestinians have been living there for many centuries.
Response: The Mandate for Palestine reads, “Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connexion of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country;
Note the use of the words “historical” and “reconstituting”. The “Palestinians” living there were consistently Jewish. http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~samuel/presence.html (MAPS!) and Dan Bahat, ed. Twenty Centuries of Jewish Life in the Holy Land, (Jerusalem: The Israel Economist, 1976
Your claim: Israel is erasing Palestine. Palestine is not erasing Israel.
Response: Given a chance, Arabs WOULD erase Israel. Note the slogan “From the river to the sea…” That includes a whole lot more than just Judea and Samaria. http://palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=157&doc_id=11319
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-hamas-israel-idUSKBN0JS0LO20141215
Your claim: if no-one can refute these facts, then I suggest we agree they are all true and move on.
OK ?
Response: Consider them refuted. Move on, OK?
My ill will towards Jews that promote and participate in genocide and ethnic cleansing is no different than my ill will towards Nazis that do the same. Claiming the Palestinians should have no ill will towards the Zionists is much like claiming a rape victim should have no ill will towards their rapist.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
What a pathetically bigoted statement that's not even remotely logical.
Gday Flankerl and all
I yawned.
You ignored all my many arguments, and the evidence, outright.
You failed to address any of my points.
Why do you think that is funny ?
Oh, so that's your excuse for ignoring the evidence, and dismissing everything I say ?
So then why ARE you fighting here ? Repeatedly making silly childish insults ?
Seems like the real reason is that you know you would lose - because I know the facts compared to the propaganda, and I am familiar with all the pro-Israeli excuses and dodges, and I am running rings around you.
I have posted a great deal of information and evidence and argument.
Not one poster here has been prepared to address even a single one of my points.
Instead I have been :
Israel invaded and captured most of Palestinian in 1948-49 by military force and ethnic cleansing.
That is the record of history. No point in denying the plain facts.
THAT's why the Arabs attacked Israel - to defend the stolen Palestine.
Now Palestine is almost gone - 80% gobbled up, and their people are massacred and murdered and kidnapped and tortured etc.
Israel is committing a new Holocaust 2.0 on the Palestinians.
Are you really a Holocaust 2.0 denier, Flankerl ?
Kapyong
I yawned.
You ignored all my many arguments, and the evidence, outright.
You failed to address any of my points.
Why do you think that is funny ?
Oh, so that's your excuse for ignoring the evidence, and dismissing everything I say ?
So then why ARE you fighting here ? Repeatedly making silly childish insults ?
Seems like the real reason is that you know you would lose - because I know the facts compared to the propaganda, and I am familiar with all the pro-Israeli excuses and dodges, and I am running rings around you.
I have posted a great deal of information and evidence and argument.
Not one poster here has been prepared to address even a single one of my points.
Instead I have been :
- personally insulted as 'stupid' and 'deceitful',
- laughed at,
- dis-believed,
- ignored,
- and rejected.
Israel invaded and captured most of Palestinian in 1948-49 by military force and ethnic cleansing.
That is the record of history. No point in denying the plain facts.
THAT's why the Arabs attacked Israel - to defend the stolen Palestine.
Now Palestine is almost gone - 80% gobbled up, and their people are massacred and murdered and kidnapped and tortured etc.
Israel is committing a new Holocaust 2.0 on the Palestinians.
Are you really a Holocaust 2.0 denier, Flankerl ?
Kapyong
Gday Jayhawker Soule and all
Let's recap -
YOU insisted on word-games about the term Palestinian.
Why ?
I agree with the standard definitions of words.
I never made any strange definition of Palestinian.
I never dis-agreed with your definition.
I addressed your argument and answered it - including asking how does the word meaning apply to Israel's invasion and capture of Palestine.
You ignored my argument - snipped it right off, then accused me of being deceitful !
I wasn't deceitful at all, nor did you show that I was.
I take it that your Parthian personal abuse shot was you leaving town ?
Kapyong
Let's recap -
YOU insisted on word-games about the term Palestinian.
Why ?
I agree with the standard definitions of words.
I never made any strange definition of Palestinian.
I never dis-agreed with your definition.
I addressed your argument and answered it - including asking how does the word meaning apply to Israel's invasion and capture of Palestine.
You ignored my argument - snipped it right off, then accused me of being deceitful !
I wasn't deceitful at all, nor did you show that I was.
I take it that your Parthian personal abuse shot was you leaving town ?
Kapyong