Why did the world reject the Messiah when He Did come?

[kjw47]

What you have said, I feel answers the OP. It is the major reason why the Messiah is rejected and at the same time the key to the Gate of all Truth.

The quandary is who enter through that narrow Gate?

"Matthew 7:13-14 The Narrow and Wide Gates
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."

Regards Tony

Many thinking they are Christian( Matt 7:21-23) will find out they were mislead to partake off the table of demons( 1Cor 10:21) God says one cannot partake off his table and the table of demons. Means he isn't with those--Many are being mislead to partake, like this-2Cor 11:12-15--Satan and his teachers transform into angels of light. Obviously using-love, sharing whatever it takes.
Yes Few will find the road, because Few believe Jesus--Example=John 17: 1-6,26-- Here while in prayer to his Father in heaven, tells all at verse 3-the one who sent him= Father( John 5:30) is THE ONLY TRUE GOD. verse 6= YHVH(Jehovah) verse 26= YHVH(Jehovah
Hallowed be thy(Father) name = YHVH(Jehovah)
Most outright refuse to believe Jesus. Paul believed-1Cor 8:6-There is one God to all, The Father.
All because of a capitol G God error in the last line at John 1:1--caused billions to be mislead. In their own greek lexicon in greek--The Logos was not called ho Theos in the last line like the true God was called in the 2nd line. Just plain Theos= a god. Meaning--Has godlike qualities--This is why-Acts 2:22--Gods power goes through Jesus.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Brother, with all due respect, you have not answered to a single question. Not one. You responded courteously but a response is not an answer

I see I answered your questions with my fallible ability.

I can offer you may not have seen the answer I was attempting to impart.

I can provide you a Quranic verse that is relevant to all of us. Every single person.

49:6 O you who believe, if a Fasiq (disobedient/wicked person) comes to you with any news, then you shall investigate it. Lest you harm a people out of ignorance, then you will become regretful over what you have done.

Investigate everything.

Great passage. Baha'u'llah quotes that verse a few times in reference to the injustices issued towards his followers and His Message.

He used that verse at a time when he was requesting a fair and just meeting with the Shah and all Muslim Divines to He could make it clear. They refused to do so and judged in ignorance. As such the world now reflects that harm born out of that ignorance.

So dont claim that the advent of Islam happened with Muhammed.

I did not claim, I posted a fact about the meaning of a word Advent which means;

"The fact of an event happening, an invention being made, or a person arriving"

The Islamic Faith came about because of the arrival of Muhammad. The Revelation of the Quran was an advent that gave the meanings you now share.

Thus Bottomline is, according to the Quran, Islam did not have an "Advent" and there are no other religions. Again, for a person who does not believe the Quran, it is all nonsense and thats their prerogative, but you claim to believe it, but truthfully you dont, and you contradict it.

I see in your way you are explaining a Truth I also see. From my point of view, I see the Oneness, but do not see we need to deny all the Advents that have shown us that Oneness.

"Bahá’u’lláh has announced that the foundation of all the religions of God is one, that oneness is truth and truth is oneness which does not admit of plurality. This teaching is new and specialized to this Manifestation."

‘Abdu’l-Bahá, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 453

This is also what a Baha'i believes and I think it reflects the Quran;

" All the teaching of the Prophets is one; one faith; one Divine light shining throughout the world. Now, under the banner of the oneness of humanity all people of all creeds should turn away from prejudice and become friends and believers in all the Prophets...." Abdul'baha

From my point of view, both the Bab and Baha'u'llah were both practising Muslims of great knowledge and their Messages explain Islam.

It is your choice to see it how you wish to, but you Have to consider in all fairness, it may be you that does not see what the Quran is teaching. That is just as valid as you saying I have not understood.

Regards Tony

 

[kjw47]

His teachings are alive and well as is he. His real teachers make sure they are taught, learned and applied.

His teachings are alive in every translation on earth. Yet Few even know what he teaches.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The facts back truth

From Moses on up until this very day. In every Israelite place of worship( while serving the God of the bible) teach, serve and worship= a single being God-YHWH or YHVH translated Yahweh, or Jehovah. The God taught to Jesus his first 30yearswhile attending those places of worship, taught to every bible writer as well.
Facts back truth. God is not with any teaching or serving a false non existent God.

Facts are relative to our own mind and choices.

We can agree on some, but most likely we will not agree on many.

I can say I see the Day of Jehovah is here.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Most outright refuse to believe Jesus. Paul believed-1Cor 8:6-There is one God to all, The Father.

A fact we can agree on is that there is One God for all.

Others my not and you my not agree with the details as I see them.

Regards Tony

 

[kjw47]

Many thinking they are Christian( Matt 7:21-23) will find out they were mislead to partake off the table of demons( 1Cor 10:21) God says one cannot partake off his table and the table of demons. Means he isn't with those--Many are being mislead to partake, like this-2Cor 11:12-15--Satan and his teachers transform into angels of light. Obviously using-love, sharing whatever it takes.
Yes Few will find the road, because Few believe Jesus--Example=John 17: 1-6,26-- Here while in prayer to his Father in heaven, tells all at verse 3-the one who sent him= Father( John 5:30) is THE ONLY TRUE GOD. verse 6= YHVH(Jehovah) verse 26= YHVH(Jehovah
Hallowed be thy(Father) name = YHVH(Jehovah)
Most outright refuse to believe Jesus. Paul believed-1Cor 8:6-There is one God to all, The Father.

Facts are relative to our own mind and choices.

We can agree on some, but most likely we will not agree on many.

I can say I see the Day of Jehovah is here.

Regards Tony

There is one truth, Jesus' real teachers have it. One MUST learn from them.

 

[kjw47]

A fact we can agree on is that there is One God for all.

Others my not and you my not agree with the details as I see them.

Regards Tony

There is 0 dispute. God is a single being God named-YHVH(Jehovah.) Some think-YHWH(Yahweh)--What is important is that no trinity exists--all serving it are being mislead out of entering Gods kingdom=Fact. It just takes believing Jesus over men. Most outright refuse. That is why Few will find the road.
The real Jesus sends his followers to accomplish this-John 4:22-24 daily. It does not stop at Jesus, one MUST go through the real Jesus to get to the Father.

 

[Vinayaka]

Pot, meet kettle.

 

[CG Didymus]

The Dispensation of Jesus has been abrogated.

To you, what was the "dispensation" of Jesus all about? And then, what about that dispensation got abrogated by first Muhammad, then by Baha'u'llah?

 

[CG Didymus]

You really don't get it do you?

No, I don't get why Baha'is can say they believe the Bible is the truth from God, then say it is not fully authentic, and then quote all kinds of things from it and say those things are fulfilled prophecy. I posted a bunch of verses for you from Revelation. You don't even have to crack open a Bible. Unfortunately, I don't believe you have a clue what is going on there, but you "believe" Baha'u'llah has fulfilled it all. Great. But, the sad thing is, Baha'is can't just "say" they have the truth, they've got to prove it. But you can't. All you can hope for is that someday it will become clear that the Baha'i Faith is the truth.

50 years ago I was almost convinced of that. Now, because of the attitude of some Baha'is, I'm getting pushed further and further away from thinking it is the truth. And, I'm not the only one. Another quote from the NT that some Baha'is like to use, "By their fruits ye shall know them"? What has happened here on the forum? Have Baha'is helped bring people from different religions together? Or, pushed them away with their attitude. An attitude of "we are right and we know we are you. And you are wrong, you are just too blind to see that you are wrong." Great, you win. The Baha'is are right about everything.

 

[CG Didymus]

CG, I remember @adrian gave you a full explanation on all this. Thus I see there is no point repeating it all. You are aware the explanations are available online. I also know the explanation ties in very well with what actually happened in the history of the Islam Faith.

Regards Tony

Full explanation? No, I don't think so. Abdul Baha' talks about a couple of chapters. Then some Baha'i wrote a book about it? And, he knows what all that stuff in Revelation means? And his book is not available online except to buy it. This is all I asked of you:

Rev13:1 The dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.
2 The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority.
3 One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast.
4 People worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast​

So we have a dragon and a beast. As I recall one of them the Baha'is say is the Umayyads and the other is the Abbasids. Which one is which, and did one give its power to the other?

5 The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months...
7 It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.
8 All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.​

The dragon has already had its time. This beast has authority for 42 months. Starting when and ending when? 622 to 1844? No. But Baha'is don't care. 42 months is 1260 lunar years and that's all the matters. But, who is this Lamb? One Baha'is says it is The Bab, but The Bab hasn't been born yet. But another problem, the 1st and 2nd Woes ended two chapters ago. This is in the time of the 3rd Woe. which is supposed to be about Baha'u'llah. But that's a minor problem. Now comes the good stuff.

11 Then I saw a second beast, coming out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon.
12 It exercised all the authority of the first beast on its behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed.
13 And it performed great signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to the earth in full view of the people.
14 Because of the signs it was given power to perform on behalf of the first beast, it deceived the inhabitants of the earth. It ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived.
15 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.
16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads,
17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.
18 This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man. That number is 666.​

So that other beast already had power for 42 months. Now comes another beast. The other beast is the one that had a fatal wound. As I recall Baha'is say that is I believe an Umayyad leader who ruled from Andalucía. So which Islamic leader is this new one? That exercised authority on behalf of the other one? But anyway, this one sets up an image of the other beast and anyone that doesn't worship the image is to be killed. But then, this beast forces people to get a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads. They can't buy or sell without this mark. And what is this mark? It is 666. It has absolutely no relationship to the year 661AD when the first Umayyads leader took over. Unfortunately, it appears Abdul Baha is making things up. Which is fine... except Baha'is claim to have fulfilled all prophecies. Hopefully, you can show me how your interpretation of Revelation is indeed the true one.

The Baha'i explanation does not tie in very well. The 666 is not in anyway a date.

 

[firedragon]

The Islamic Faith came about because of the arrival of Muhammad.

You contradict the Quran.

Peace.

 

[firedragon]

This is also what a Baha'i believes and I think it reflects the Quran;

Nothing much to think there brother. And it does not reflect the Quran, it contradicts the Quran.

Another contradiction - You claim Islams "advent" was with Muhammed and keep repeating it because it is paramount for the calculation of prophecy, but you start from 622 A.D when the actual so called advent happened 10 years earlier. I may have mentioned this 10 times already and you keep ignoring this question but you say you answered. You never answered. You responded with some vague faith statement and that you dont need to do calculations. Thats not an answer.

Why 622 when the supposed "advent" happened in 610?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

There is one truth, Jesus' real teachers have it. One MUST learn from them.

I see it as Christ, we must learn from Christ.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Full explanation? No, I don't think so. Abdul Baha' talks about a couple of chapters. Then some Baha'i wrote a book about it? And, he knows what all that stuff in Revelation means? And his book is not available online except to buy it. This is all I asked of you:

Rev13:1 The dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.
2 The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority.
3 One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast.
4 People worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast​

So we have a dragon and a beast. As I recall one of them the Baha'is say is the Umayyads and the other is the Abbasids. Which one is which, and did one give its power to the other?

5 The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months...
7 It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.
8 All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.​

The dragon has already had its time. This beast has authority for 42 months. Starting when and ending when? 622 to 1844? No. But Baha'is don't care. 42 months is 1260 lunar years and that's all the matters. But, who is this Lamb? One Baha'is says it is The Bab, but The Bab hasn't been born yet. But another problem, the 1st and 2nd Woes ended two chapters ago. This is in the time of the 3rd Woe. which is supposed to be about Baha'u'llah. But that's a minor problem. Now comes the good stuff.

11 Then I saw a second beast, coming out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon.
12 It exercised all the authority of the first beast on its behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed.
13 And it performed great signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to the earth in full view of the people.
14 Because of the signs it was given power to perform on behalf of the first beast, it deceived the inhabitants of the earth. It ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived.
15 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.
16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads,
17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.
18 This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man. That number is 666.​

So that other beast already had power for 42 months. Now comes another beast. The other beast is the one that had a fatal wound. As I recall Baha'is say that is I believe an Umayyad leader who ruled from Andalucía. So which Islamic leader is this new one? That exercised authority on behalf of the other one? But anyway, this one sets up an image of the other beast and anyone that doesn't worship the image is to be killed. But then, this beast forces people to get a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads. They can't buy or sell without this mark. And what is this mark? It is 666. It has absolutely no relationship to the year 661AD when the first Umayyads leader took over. Unfortunately, it appears Abdul Baha is making things up. Which is fine... except Baha'is claim to have fulfilled all prophecies. Hopefully, you can show me how your interpretation of Revelation is indeed the true one.

The Baha'i explanation does not tie in very well. The 666 is not in anyway a date.

It is not easy to see that Faith can be seen as the Beast.

It is easier when we know that the best refers to our lower selves.

The Faith of Muhammad was taken over by many who broke the covenant.

The reference of 1260 is to the dispensation of Islam. Not a time between each significant event.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You contradict the Quran.

Peace.

Only when you view the statement within your vision.

To me it does not.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Nothing much to think there brother. And it does not reflect the Quran, it contradicts the Quran.

Another contradiction - You claim Islams "advent" was with Muhammed and keep repeating it because it is paramount for the calculation of prophecy, but you start from 622 A.D when the actual so called advent happened 10 years earlier. I may have mentioned this 10 times already and you keep ignoring this question but you say you answered. You never answered. You responded with some vague faith statement and that you dont need to do calculations. Thats not an answer.

Why 622 when the supposed "advent" happened in 610?

You will have to determine when and why the Islamic started at a certain date, it really matters not in the prophecy mentioned and as such is splitting hairs and taking focus way from the outcome.

Simply what was the Islamic year of the Bab's declaration? Was it AH1260, was that AH1844? Yes

Regards Tony

 

[firedragon]

Only when you view the statement within your vision.

To me it does not.

Regards Tony

But it does.

 

[firedragon]

You will have to determine when and why the Islamic started at a certain date, it really matters not in the prophecy mentioned and as such is splitting hairs and taking focus way from the outcome.

Simply what was the Islamic year of the Bab's declaration? Was it AH1260, was that AH1844? Yes

Regards Tony

A vague response. Maybe for there 11th time. And you think this is an answer?

Why 622 when the supposed "advent" happened in 610?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

50 years ago I was almost convinced of that. Now, because of the attitude of some Baha'is, I'm getting pushed further and further away from thinking it is the truth. And, I'm not the only one. Another quote from the NT that some Baha'is like to use, "By their fruits ye shall know them"? What has happened here on the forum? Have Baha'is helped bring people from different religions together? Or, pushed them away with their attitude. An attitude of "we are right and we know we are you. And you are wrong, you are just too blind to see that you are wrong." Great, you win. The Baha'is are right about everything.

That is a sign of the times and Baha'i are not exempt from the Tests this era throws at us.

Of course, maybe you could have made the difference if you had chosen to do so?

Regards Tony