No that is not it, I implement the good I find within and ask God for understaning as to what I yet do not.
Regards Tony
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Why did the world reject the Messiah when He Did come?
- Thread starter TransmutingSoul
- Start date
No that is not it, I implement the good I find within and ask God for understaning as to what I yet do not.
Regards Tony
Firstly I don't follow books, I learn what they all state, and understand the message as a whole...
It is an assessment of the foundations of what they state, before ever questioning to build any theological structuring on, without advanced evidence first.
Genesis was a continuation of oral traditions passed down in many cultures.
Exodus for me is by Aaron, and has partial understandings of early Levitical Law.
Deuteronomy (end chapter looks added), was by Moses, and has advanced concepts within it.
Numbers is by scholars after, it doesn't have prophetic alignment; yet is concise in documenting the continued history, like Kings, and Chronicles both do.
Job, Song of Solomon, Proverbs, are books to make us think, and contain referencing used by others later.
Psalms, Isaiah, Zechariah, Daniel, had advanced knowledge which interlinks concisely.
Ezekiel, Jeremiah were prophets who both wrote during the Babylon Exile; so the Sorrowful Judaism we see had begun of dressing in dark mourning clothes... Yet their prophecies interlink concisely.
Like basically there is a foundation of what was stated in early history, with the same theological structuring; many of the smaller prophets are concurrent with this same message, and then the Quran is a review/confirmation of the same.
The New Testament is an exam according to the texts, to see if people read the test as a whole:
So the Synoptic Gospels, James, Jude, Revelation are purposely prophetically against John, Paul, Acts, and Simon the stone (peter).
Leviticus is thought to have been created in Babylon, and contains black magic, like Kabbalah is based on.
Ecclesiastes is dark, and contradicts ideas elsewhere.
Laminations tho sounding like it uses wording similar, seems to miss contexts applied in other prophets.
There are additions on the end paragraphs in the Synoptic Gospels, and in Revelation...
It is ironic that the First and Last paragraph are forgeries in Revelation, as we can still see the glue and sticky tape, by the bad contextual alignments.
So for example of spotting the contextual mistakes:
In the main body of the book of Revelation the name Yeshua (
Or silly things like Moses wrote Deuteronomy, Moses dies, Moses didn't write an extra chapter after.
This is an ongoing assessment, and there are ways to be logical, and deductive to show all faulty data in the texts.
In my opinion.
Firstly I don't follow books, I learn what they all state, and understand the message as a whole...
It is an assessment of the foundations of what they state, before ever questioning to build any theological structuring on, without advanced evidence first.
Genesis was a continuation of oral traditions passed down in many cultures.
Exodus for me is by Aaron, and has partial understandings of early Levitical Law.
Deuteronomy (end chapter looks added), was by Moses, and has advanced concepts within it.
Numbers is by scholars after, it doesn't have prophetic alignment; yet is concise in documenting the continued history, like Kings, and Chronicles both do.
Job, Song of Solomon, Proverbs, are books to make us think, and contain referencing used by others later.
Psalms, Isaiah, Zechariah, Daniel, had advanced knowledge which interlinks concisely.
Ezekiel, Jeremiah were prophets who both wrote during the Babylon Exile; so the Sorrowful Judaism we see had begun of dressing in dark mourning clothes... Yet their prophecies interlink concisely.
Like basically there is a foundation of what was stated in early history, with the same theological structuring; many of the smaller prophets are concurrent with this same message, and then the Quran is a review/confirmation of the same.
The New Testament is an exam according to the texts, to see if people read the test as a whole:
So the Synoptic Gospels, James, Jude, Revelation are purposely prophetically against John, Paul, Acts, and Simon the stone (peter).
Leviticus is thought to have been created in Babylon, and contains black magic, like Kabbalah is based on.
Ecclesiastes is dark, and contradicts ideas elsewhere.
Laminations tho sounding like it uses wording similar, seems to miss contexts applied in other prophets.
There are additions on the end paragraphs in the Synoptic Gospels, and in Revelation...
It is ironic that the First and Last paragraph are forgeries in Revelation, as we can still see the glue and sticky tape, by the bad contextual alignments.
So for example of spotting the contextual mistakes:
In the main body of the book of Revelation the name Yeshua (jesus) was used in a historical context, because Christ has a new name given in Revelation; the first last paragraph use it as 'jesus' speaking, as they didn't notice this on forging it.
Or silly things like Moses wrote Deuteronomy, Moses dies, Moses didn't write an extra chapter after.
This is an ongoing assessment, and there are ways to be logical, and deductive to show all faulty data in the texts.
In my opinion.
I would suggest that finding the spirit within what is written, is a lot less complicated and may produce better results.
After all, a fishermen with no learning, but a heart for the Spirit, became a disciple of Christ. Those with much learning, stuck on dogma, crucified Christ.
Regards Tony
So when the Bible says the Messiah first comes to cut off his people (Zechariah 11), put them under a Curse (Deuteronomy 28) for not listening; many who only look for the good don't hear that the Curse even exists (Deuteronomy 29:19-27), as they claim they have peace, when God demands respect to be listened to.
Thus if you read the contexts just stated in those chapters, you will see Judgement Day is because of this, and there is a Holy Fire that will come from above, removing those who don't get it.
Which is that the Bible is an evil Snare to catch out the wicked (Zechariah 5, Isaiah 8); so looking for good, isn't the right method, try looking for contrast.
In my opinion.
Matthew 10:16 “Behold, I send you out as sheep among wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
Matthew 6:22-23 “The lamp of the body is the eye. If therefore your eye is sound, your whole body will be full of light. (23) But if your eye is evil, your whole body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!
If we randomly accept evil as good, as we don't question the difference, how much morality do we have?
Yeshua told us to be wise, understanding that all the prophets spoke of him (Luke 24:44); the problem wasn't understanding the dogma, it was not understanding it that made them kill him.
Plus he sent the fishermen out with even more dogma, to become fishermen of men (Matthew 4:19).
In my opinion.
firedragon
Veteran Member
So you apply that strategy of "finding the spirit" to the King James Version only?
firedragon
Veteran Member
Who crucified the Christ?
If you could turn the christian Bible collection into its "100% authentic" version, what would be the difference between the present day version?
kjw47
Well-Known Member
Actually its fact, not bigotry. I studied with both sides. The teachings of Jesus prove my words are fact.
kjw47
Well-Known Member
The Jw,s are way different. They actually obey Jesus. The teachings of Jesus back the JW teachers. There is no better backing. The World will hate it when Jesus comes back to earth. He will be leading Gods armies. The world hates the Messiah. They are rejecting him now. He started the house to house work. It does not stop until the end.( Luke 10, Acts 20:20
Peter would puke to see Catholicism rise up out of Rome and falsely use the name Jesus. Its the religion that came out of Rome that says it can trace itself back to Peter. But it cannot.
kjw47
Well-Known Member
The bible is Gods written word. Yes a religion that puts a sinful mortal( Mohammed) above Gods own son= not Gods.
So when the Bible says the Messiah first comes to cut off his people (Zechariah 11), put them under a Curse (Deuteronomy 28) for not listening; many who only look for the good don't hear that the Curse even exists (Deuteronomy 29:19-27), as they claim they have peace, when God demands respect to be listened to.
Thus if you read the contexts just stated in those chapters, you will see Judgement Day is because of this, and there is a Holy Fire that will come from above, removing those who don't get it.
Which is that the Bible is an evil Snare to catch out the wicked (Zechariah 5, Isaiah 8); so looking for good, isn't the right method, try looking for contrast.
In my opinion.
We can read all that and not see the Message it contains. The Message is veiled by our reality, by our choices and perceptions of life.
Regards Tony
Matthew 10:16 “Behold, I send you out as sheep among wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
Matthew 6:22-23 “The lamp of the body is the eye. If therefore your eye is sound, your whole body will be full of light. (23) But if your eye is evil, your whole body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!
If we randomly accept evil as good, as we don't question the difference, how much morality do we have?
Yeshua told us to be wise, understanding that all the prophets spoke of him (Luke 24:44); the problem wasn't understanding the dogma, it was not understanding it that made them kill him.
Plus he sent the fishermen out with even more dogma, to become fishermen of men (Matthew 4:19).
In my opinion.
Yes how much Morality do we really have? Your choices and actions leed you along a chosen path of understanding.
My choices and actions are guided by what Baha'u'llah has offered, then I face the quandary of that interpretation.
But I see one obstacle has been removed and that is Baha'u'llah has removed the error of interpretation made in the past. The future is to be written by the choices we currently make, if we embrace the path given for unity and peace.
Regards Tony
I used the king James as it is the one I use mostly, that and the NIV. There are many translations that can be used. Some I would not, as I see the translator had added doctrinal thought.
That aside it is the Spirit I look for in all Holy Books, the Quran and Baha'i writings. When Baha'u'llah says, 'I was but a man like others, asleep upon My couch, when lo, the breezes of the All-Glorious were wafted over Me, and taught Me the knowledge of all that hath been', I do not see that s a literal statement. I see it as an outpouring of spiritual revelation.
There are aspects that tell of material events, but the records are for us to grow spiritually.
Regards Tony
Well picked up, no person could crucify Christ.
They crucified Jesus.
The Quran records this accurately.
Regards Tony
I can not offer anything from an academic standpoint. @adrian has many posts where he has discussed this aspect. From what I have read, I would say doctrinal influences have given us the books and what we can now see as the Bible.
I see if it was not influenced by doctrinal thought, I see that the Glory of God would have been better represented, without the need to make Jesus that same Glory. In saying that, I can see why that came about.
Regards Tony
I see that is happening, this prayer given to that army; (it is one that I use)
"O Thou incomparable God! O Thou Lord of the Kingdom! These souls are Thy heavenly army. Assist them and, with the cohorts of the Supreme Concourse, make them victorious, so that each one of them may become like unto a regiment and conquer these countries through the love of God and the illumination of divine teachings.
O God! Be Thou their supporter and their helper, and in the wilderness, the mountain, the valley, the forests, the prairies and the seas, be Thou their confidant—so that they may cry out through the power of the Kingdom and the breath of the Holy Spirit.
Verily, Thou art the Powerful, the Mighty and the Omnipotent, and Thou art the Wise, the Hearing and the Seeing."
‘Abdu’l-Bahá
I see the world waits for an advent that has passed and being fulfilled here and now.
I have JW friends and I admire their dedication to service. The choices are ours and if we think we are special because of beliefs, then we have already judged ourselfs unfit in the spirit.
Regards Tony
I see that statement as not being true to the Word contained in the Bible or of Christ. I see Christ is saddened by such statements and I see the Bible says a fire awaits those that make them.
I suggest you reconsider and offer an apology to all your Muslim brothers and sisters. Of course that is your choice.
Regards Tony
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
From Some Answered Questions:
How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary 42 and the host to be trodden under foot?” Then he answered (v. 14): “Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed”; (v. 17) “But he said unto me … at the time of the end shall be the vision.” That is to say, how long will this misfortune, this ruin, this abasement and degradation last? meaning, when will be the dawn of the Manifestation? Then he answered, “Two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.” Briefly, the purport of this passage is that he appoints two thousand three hundred years, for in the text of the Bible each day is a year. Then from the date of the issuing of the edict of Artaxerxes to rebuild Jerusalem until the day of the birth of Christ there are 456 years, and from the birth of Christ until the day of the manifestation of the Báb there are 1844 years. When you add 456 years to this number it makes 2300 years. That is to say, the fulfillment of the vision of Daniel took place in the year A.D. 1844, and this is the year of the Báb’s manifestation according to the actual text of the Book of Daniel. Consider how clearly he determines the year of manifestation; there could be no clearer prophecy for a manifestation than this.
Here's a link to a Christian questioning the William Miller and Baha'i calculations:
Daniel 8 is a prophecy primarily concerned with the persecution of the Jews and the desolation of the temple which occurred in 167-164 BC. Even biblical skeptics and atheists agree that this is what the prophecy is about. Antiochus Epiphanes desecrated the temple in 167 BC, sacrificing pigs in the sancutary and putting a statue of himself in the Holy of Holies. God told his people through Daniel that the duration of the abomination of desolation would be 2300 days and nights. If we are going to try to date the prophecy and use it to make predictions, there is no doubt at all that the beginning of the prophetic time would be 167 BC. Why would the Millerites and why would the SDA church begin the prophecy in 457 BC? There is only one conceivable reason, which is so that they can use it to arrive at 1844 BC. There is literally absolutely zero reason to begin the 2300 days in Daniel 8 from the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem (Daniel 9:25). In fact, the angel actually interprets the dream, telling Daniel that the vision of the goat in Danile 8 applies to the “king of Greece.” (Daniel 8:21). This absolutely rules out applying it to a decree of Artaxerxes the Persian.
Add to this, the fact is that we can be quite sure that the 2300 days and evenings are not years for the simple reason that the interpretation of the time is fairly obvious from the historical context. The fact is that Antiochus Epiphanes desecrated the temple in November, 167 BC. The Maccabeean rebels kicked the troops of Antiochus Epiphanes out of the temple and rededicated the temple December 25, 164 BC. We know this because 1 Maccabees describes the events in detail. The date of the rededication became the date for the Jewish festival of Chanukkuh. The time between the desecration and the rededication was about 37-38 months, which is approximately 1150 days. Therefore the 2300 days and nights are 1150 days (one day and one night = one day). How do I know this? Because it fits the prophecy exactly, both in terms of what was said and what we know for a fact happened. In any case, the desecration of the temple certainly did not last for 2300 years!!!
Why are you right, and why is he wrong? Other than the obvious... Abdul Baha' is infallible, so no matter what, he is right.
Add to this, the fact is that we can be quite sure that the 2300 days and evenings are not years for the simple reason that the interpretation of the time is fairly obvious from the historical context. The fact is that Antiochus Epiphanes desecrated the temple in November, 167 BC. The Maccabeean rebels kicked the troops of Antiochus Epiphanes out of the temple and rededicated the temple December 25, 164 BC. We know this because 1 Maccabees describes the events in detail. The date of the rededication became the date for the Jewish festival of Chanukkuh. The time between the desecration and the rededication was about 37-38 months, which is approximately 1150 days. Therefore the 2300 days and nights are 1150 days (one day and one night = one day). How do I know this? Because it fits the prophecy exactly, both in terms of what was said and what we know for a fact happened. In any case, the desecration of the temple certainly did not last for 2300 years!!!
Why are you right, and why is he wrong? Other than the obvious... Abdul Baha' is infallible, so no matter what, he is right.
That reflected an intent, that reflected your hearts choice CG. Thus I ask Why did you not use William Millers calculation and His explanations?
Why - They agree with what Abdul'Baha later offered. This link CG, the graphs and explanation are there and were available before Abdul'baha gave His talk - William Miller (preacher) - Wikipedia
"...Basing his calculations principally on Daniel 8:14: "Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed", Miller assumed that the cleansing of the sanctuary represented the Earth's purification by fire at Christ's Second Coming. Then, using the interpretive principle of the "day-year principle", Miller (and others) interpreted a day in prophecy to read not as a 24-hour period, but rather as a calendar year. Further, Miller became convinced that the 2,300 day period started in 457 BC with the decree to rebuild Jerusalem by Artaxerxes I of Persia. Simple calculation then revealed that this period would end in 1843. Miller records, "I was thus brought... to the solemn conclusion, that in about twenty-five years from that time 1818 all the affairs of our present state would be wound up."
What he realized later was there was no year Zero, thus the calculation was corrected to 1844.
The other question we can ask is how did Abdul'Baha know that William Miller gave that explanation while in constant exile from Persia to the prison in Akka?
Regards Tony
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