Why do christianity get so much hate?

[stvdv]

Naturally I'm assuming you don't celebrate Christmas or go to any Christmas parties, right?

Again, the posts of @Samael_Khan and @stvdv had nothing to do with Christmas or parties.

I wonder: why do you bring that up?

The point we made was clear and simple:
Christians claiming "our Religion, Master, celebrations are Superior, and or those of others are inferior" prove themselves to be "Christian Supremacists"

And history has proven how destructive Supremacists are

 

[Samael_Khan]

And facts are facts. It's good to learn sometimes.

It is good to learn ALL the time. Non stop. The problem is when people believe they have the truth and refuse to learn facts that contradict their beliefs. They will evade facts at all costs, often appealing to conspiracy theory and pseudo science to protect their beliefs.

 

[YoursTrue]

You totally misrepresent the clear point that was made by @Samael_Khan and @stvdv

Nah, I did not totally misrepresent the unclear point you were discussing. Anyway, have a good evening if it's evening where you're at.

 

[YoursTrue]

Again, the posts of @Samael_Khan and @stvdv had nothing to do with Christmas or parties.

I wonder: why do you bring that up?

The point we made was clear and simple:
Christians claiming "our Religion, Master, celebrations are Superior, and or those of others are inferior" prove themselves to be "Christian Supremacists"

And history has proven how destructive Supremacists are

If you despise what some call Christianity so much, why would you join Christmas celebrations. Hypothetically, of course. Strikes of hypocrisy to me. History may show whatever particular groups may profess, but within various religions certainly there have been and are wars. Not just those you are targeting.

 

[YoursTrue]

Again, the posts of @Samael_Khan and @stvdv had nothing to do with Christmas or parties.

I wonder: why do you bring that up?

The point we made was clear and simple:
Christians claiming "our Religion, Master, celebrations are Superior, and or those of others are inferior" prove themselves to be "Christian Supremacists"

And history has proven how destructive Supremacists are

Religion and politics have long been associated with nations and wars. That includes the virtual whole world of humanity.

 

[stvdv]

It could also be that God actually hardened his heart because he didnt want Pharoah to understand, otherwise the Israelites wouldn't be so motivated to go to the promised land.

A strange concept "God hardened his heart"

I say "humans harden their own hearts, by not following Sathya and Dharma (Truth and Righteousness)", no interaction of God is needed

One exception I can think of;

From Advaita POV one can argue "God hardens your heart", because there is no free will in Advaitha, only God, Consciousness exist and is Real, Truth (as in never changing), all else is Maya, illusion, UnTruth (ever changing). Hence everything, including 'harden hearts', is done by God from Advaitha POV

BUT, knowing this verse comes from an Abrahamic Scripture, Abrahamics would not be consistent when they were applying Advaitha to interpret this particular verse

 

[YoursTrue]

A strange concept "God hardened his heart"

I say "humans harden their own hearts, by not following Sathya and Dharma (Truth and Righteousness)", no interaction of God is needed

One exception I can think of;

From Advaita POV one can argue "God hardens your heart", because there is no free will in Advaitha, only God, Consciousness exist and is Real, Truth (as in never changing), all else is Maya, illusion, UnTruth (ever changing). Hence everything, including 'harden hearts', is done by God from Advaitha POV

BUT, knowing this verse comes from an Abrahamic Scripture, Abrahamics would not be consistent when they were applying Advaitha to interpret this particular verse

Each one is born in his own environment. Have a good night, bye for now.

 

[stvdv]

If you despise what some call Christianity so much

I don't despise Christianity

Despising is done by Christians Supremacists claiming "Jesus alone can save you", thereby denegrating all other Religions

 

[Samael_Khan]

A strange concept "God hardened his heart"

I say "humans harden their own hearts, by not following Sathya and Dharma (Truth and Righteousness)", no interaction of God is needed

One exception I can think of;

From Advaita POV one can argue "God hardens your heart", because there is no free will in Advaitha, only God, Consciousness exist and is Real, Truth (as in never changing), all else is Maya, illusion, UnTruth (ever changing). Hence everything, including 'harden hearts', is done by God from Advaitha POV

BUT, knowing this verse comes from an Abrahamic Scripture, Abrahamics would not be consistent when they were applying Advaitha to interpret this particular verse

If my understanding is correct, our true selves are our Atman which is the Brahman, so essentially we are God? In which case we as a part of God create an illusion which we live in and are hardening our own hearts? Hence God is the one hardening our hearts because we are God?

Yes, if God hardens the heart, he is overriding that persons free will, which is a problem. But it depends on a Christians beliefs. The words "free will " is not mentioned in the bible and is a concept derived from people understanding of scriptures. I would say that the fulfillment of prophecy can point to free will not actually being a thing in the bible. And i think that Calvinists believe that the elect are already determined so they might not believe in total free will? I am not sure.

 

[stvdv]

If you despise what some call Christianity so much

Christian Supremacy is "despicable"

, why would you join Christmas celebrations. Hypothetically, of course.

My Guru allows Christmas celebrations
My Guru warns against Religious Supremacy
Claiming "No one has the right to criticize the Religion of another", which is Supremacy

 

[Samael_Khan]

If you despise what some call Christianity so much, why would you join Christmas celebrations. Hypothetically, of course. Strikes of hypocrisy to me. History may show whatever particular groups may profess, but within various religions certainly there have been and are wars. Not just those you are targeting.

I don't celebrate Christmas. I do partake in meals and stuff out of respect for my parents (who arent exclusivist or dogmatic) but I don't participate in the religious aspect of it. For me to disrespect their beliefs and our culture would be me doing what i accuse Abrahamic faiths of doing.

 

[YoursTrue]

I don't despise Christianity

Despising is done by Christians Supremacists claiming "Jesus alone can save you", thereby denegrating all other Religions

Well then you shouldn't mind...

 

[YoursTrue]

I don't celebrate Christmas. I do partake in meals and stuff out of respect for my parents (who arent exclusivist or dogmatic) but I don't participate in the religious aspect of it. For me to disrespect their beliefs and our culture would be me doing what i accuse Abrahamic faiths of doing.

There are office parties at Christmastime and people get drunk, plus other things. They are not necessarily proclaiming to be of a religion that believes in Christ. So they are living in some cases a "myth."

 

[Samael_Khan]

There are office parties at Christmastime and people get drunk, plus other things. They are not necessarily proclaiming to be of a religion that believes in Christ. So they are living in some cases a "myth."

Agreed.

 

[stvdv]

If my understanding is correct

You explained it perfectly

our true selves are our Atman which is the Brahman, so essentially we are God? In which case we as a part of God create an illusion which we live in and are hardening our own hearts? Hence God is the one hardening our hearts because we are God?

Yes, if God hardens the heart, he is overriding that persons free will, which is a problem.

Free Will indeed is interesting and tricky

But it depends on a Christians beliefs. The words "free will " is not mentioned in the bible

Thank you. I googled it, and indeed I could not find "Free Will" in the Bible. The verses I found with "free" were like below verse. Meaning, IMO, more like the Shakespeare way "To Be (Free) or not to Be (Free)"

To me "Free Will" is only possible if you realize your Divinity. The Divine is Free, free from the bondage of life and death.

"Will", as in Will Power, has more to do with Dharma, the Divine, to follow your conscience.

"Choice", as in Free Choice, has more to do with Maya, illusion, the world

Galatians 5:13-14 (NIV) - Loving Your Neighbor​

“You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love. For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”

and is a concept derived from people understanding of scriptures. I would say that the fulfillment of prophecy can point to free will not actually being a thing in the bible.

Good point, thanks

I think:
"Free Will" is to The Divine, and to those realizing The Divine
"Free Choice" pertains to the worldly oriented

And i think that Calvinists believe that the elect are already determined so they might not believe in total free will?

I am not sure

Neither am I

 

[stvdv]

Well then you shouldn't mind...

Jesus, according to the Bible, also acted, when seeing Adharma (unrighteousness)

It has been declared:
Seeing injustice, and doing nothing, makes you as guilty that the injustice continues

 

[Samael_Khan]

You explained it perfectly



Free Will indeed is interesting and tricky

Thank you. I googled it, and indeed I could not find "Free Will" in the Bible. The verses I found with "free" were like below verse. Meaning, IMO, more like the Shakespeare way "To Be (Free) or not to Be (Free)"

To me "Free Will" is only possible if you realize your Divinity. The Divine is Free, free from the bondage of life and death.

"Will", as in Will Power, has more to do with Dharma, the Divine, to follow your conscience.

"Choice", as in Free Choice, has more to do with Maya, illusion, the world

Galatians 5:13-14 (NIV) - Loving Your Neighbor​

Good point, thanks

I think:
"Free Will" is to The Divine, and to those realizing The Divine
"Free Choice" pertains to the worldly oriented



Neither am I

I am still undecided on the whole reincarnation, Dharma, Kharma and liberation ideas and cycle. I must read the Bhagavad Ghita again and finish reading the Tibetan Book of the Dead to see where I stand. At the moment my belief is to use Taiji to balance Yin and Yang to attain Wuji. Once I am balanced I am at peace. Possibly focusing the qi on the upper Dan Tian can lead to spiritual enlightenment but I don't know ehat I think about that yet. I don't believe our current world and experiences are an illusion though because it doesnt make sense to my experience.

I will think about your Free Will and Free Choice distinction. I always considered them the same thing.

To take the convo back to the OP, Calvinisms cconcept of free will has been used oppress others because of the superiority complex. For instance South Africa was considered the Afrikaner promised land by the Dutch Reformed Church and that was one of their excuses for claiming superiority over others and creating Apartheid. Granted, other Christian groups fought against this and aided the liberation movements.

 

[stvdv]

I am still undecided on the whole reincarnation,

In Hinduism reincarnation is tricky also:
From Advaita POV reincarnation is not true
From the other beliefs reincarnation is true

How can any sane person make a decision?
With so many variables and contradictions

At the moment my belief is to use Taiji to balance Yin and Yang to attain Wuji.

I do the same, try to balance Yin and Yang
And
That seems enough to me.

Once I am balanced I am at peace.

As my Guru told us:
"Be happy, others will be happy, all will be happy, God will be happy"
When I heard that I instantly felt "happy".
Finally something simple, and do-able

Note on God:
It has been said "God is smaller than the smallest and Greater than the Greatest"
(Another one to add to the confusion)

The best advice I was given:
Solve the question "Who Am I"
Other questions will be solved simultaneously

More practicle and definitely more easy than solving "Who/what is God"

Love, Peace and Blessings to you

 

[stvdv]

• To take the convo back to the OP, Calvinisms cconcept of free will has been used oppress others because of the superiority complex.

Indeed this Superiority Complex is a horror

For instance South Africa was considered the Afrikaner promised land by the Dutch Reformed Church and that was one of their excuses for claiming superiority over others and creating Apartheid.

I am Dutch, and indeed the Dutch have been really horrible in South Africa and Indonesia and other places too. Small country that created too much harm. Huge karma for the Dutch.

Granted, other Christian groups fought against this and aided the liberation movements

Christianity has this ambivalence, schizophrenic madness, I call it. Trying to physically help others, while at the same time trying hard to emotionally and Spiritually kill them with their Superiority Complex

 

[YoursTrue]

Jesus, according to the Bible, also acted, when seeing Adharma (unrighteousness)

It has been declared:
Seeing injustice, and doing nothing, makes you as guilty that the injustice continues

Yet living a lie is ok.?