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Why do Christians accuse other religions of believing in false prophets?

S

Sargonski

Well-Known Member
Trailblazer said:
That is what my religion teaches.

96) PRE-EXISTENCE - of Prophets
The Prophets, unlike us, are pre-existent. The soul of Christ existed in the spiritual world before His birth in this world. We cannot imagine what that world is like, so words are inadequate to picture His state of being.

(Shoghi Effendi: High Endeavors, Page: 71)

No, that is not claiming that Jesus IS God the Father, or that Jesus and God are one and the SAME.
No, it is not Jesus making this claim.... It is as you said, the author trying to understand the divinity of Jesus and put it on paper.
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Good post .. my only disagreement is the "unlike us are pre-existent" part. I believe that All souls are pre-existent -not via religious belief .. but via scientific analysis and proofs.

For example -- what is the soul ? if not other than the "I AM" moment .. which happens roughly 22 weeks into the process... when the wiring to the brain is complete such that it can capacitate the "I AM" at which point the brain lights up like a xmas tree... exactly the same time when you wake up and realize "I AM"

How did you get to that moment ... when the Soul Arrives .. from where ever it was previously .. and it was somewhere previously .. by hook or by crook.. as we shall see.

Give you another hint --- Matter and Energy came together in some configuration that was able to capacitate the "I AM" of the YOU variety. looking around you notice you are not the only "I AM"

What was the probability of this event happening ? Matter-Energy configuring themselves the right way ? --- 100% .... You are here :)

What is the probability of this event happening again ? 100% :) :)

one assumption has been made to arrive at the above conclusion. ---->>> Time keeps on ticking ... into the Future ----->>>> YOU .. will exist again .. existence is infinite .. because what ever the probability was .. you being here .. prior to that event there was a finite probability of that event happening. Proof - You exist.

What is probability of happening again .. in an infinite amount of time .. all finite probabilities will repeat infinitely. "So it is written - So it shall be done" say the prophet and the colored girls singing dup da dup Existence is Eternal.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Sargonski said:
For example -- what is the soul ? if not other than the "I AM" moment .. which happens roughly 22 weeks into the process... when the wiring to the brain is complete such that it can capacitate the "I AM" at which point the brain lights up like a xmas tree... exactly the same time when you wake up and realize "I AM"
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I believe the soul is the person so it is the "I AM." The following is what I believe about the soul.

The soul associates itself with the body at the time of conception, before the brain is developed. After the person is born the soul works through the brain and while we are living on earth in a physical body. The soul is associated with the brain and it animates and directs the brain and the body, but when we die and no longer have a physical body the soul continues to live. It lives forever, and that is why it is called an 'immortal soul.'

The soul manifests itself in our thought process. The soul itself does not have cognitive functions, only the brain has those, but the soul 'animates' the brain so it is responsible for our ability to think and feel. If we had no soul the body would have no life.

The soul is the sum total of the personality so it is the person himself; the physical body is pure matter with no real identity. The person, after he dies and leaves his physical body behind remains the same person, and he goes to the spiritual world where he continues the life he conducted in the physical world. The soul takes on some kind of a spiritual body made up of elements that exist in the spiritual world and continues to live forever.
 
S

Sargonski

Well-Known Member
Trailblazer said:
I believe the soul is the person so it is the "I AM." The following is what I believe about the soul.

The soul associates itself with the body at the time of conception, before the brain is developed. After the person is born the soul works through the brain and while we are living on earth in a physical body. The soul is associated with the brain and it animates and directs the brain and the body, but when we die and no longer have a physical body the soul continues to live. It lives forever, and that is why it is called an 'immortal soul.'

The soul manifests itself in our thought process. The soul itself does not have cognitive functions, only the brain has those, but the soul 'animates' the brain so it is responsible for our ability to think and feel. If we had no soul the body would have no life.

The soul is the sum total of the personality so it is the person himself; the physical body is pure matter with no real identity. The person, after he dies and leaves his physical body behind remains the same person, and he goes to the spiritual world where he continues the life he conducted in the physical world. The soul takes on some kind of a spiritual body made up of elements that exist in the spiritual world and continues to live forever.
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Yes ... one of the main points of previous diatribe was that the Soul is the "I AM" but then off the turnip truck have fallen Brother T .. What is the point of the "I AM" being around at conception ? --- when the fleshy vessle under preparation can not capacitate the "I AM" .. there is no "I Think Therefor I AM" at conception .. and the Pope saying that Cats are demonic sparking a mania of Cat Torture and killing in the Middle Ages is not doing it for me as justification..

The Vatican has taken much of their rash statements back .. this one may come soon .. as the argument has no integrity .. from an "I AM" perspective ..

"Immortal Soul" - excellent - proven in previous post. .. So when you go back through the pearly gates - what song will they be playing to greet you ? and after you meet all the folks up there ...tell them about your experience on Earth .. they tell you about their vacation .. you will perhaps chill out .. 1 million reality TV shows to choose from .. different worlds .. planning next vacation.

Oh .. I should tell you .. not many but a few Rules in Heaven #1) Thou shalt not Praise the Most High .. das ist verboten !! -- after a Trillion years .. every entity doing nothing but blowing smoke up the Holy Hole .. got real tired of that... put the Royal Foot down.

#2) So when you have chosen your next vacation .. Conscierge Sataniel has directed you to the launching spot .. the nurse will give you the blue pill .. and when you wake up and open eyes .. you will be on next vacation.

The Rule ... is that you will not remember your past lives .. cept perhaps a glimpse here and there for a few. You open eyes a "blank slate" .. Table Rosa ..

but ... THERE IS no opening of any eyes .. no "I AM" moment .. awareness that you exist .. until around 22 weeks .. so no point in showing up until that exact moment .. when the brain lights up like an xmas tree .. announcing the arrival of the soul.
 
Brian2

Brian2

Veteran Member
IndigoChild5559 said:
One of the most basic rules of logic is that something cannot be x and not x at the same time. So, my friend, is IS completely irrational to say that God is one and three at the same time.
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Christians do not say that the one God is actually 3 Gods.
Jesus specifically said that His Father is the only true God.
Jesus also said that He is in His Father and His Father is in Him, and that He and the Father are one. (and that "one" is neuter gender and so means "one thing".
The gospel also makes it clear that the Father and Son are in God's Spirit and that the Spirit is in the Father and the Son.
 
mikkel_the_dane

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Brian2 said:
Christians do not say that the one God is actually 3 Gods.
Jesus specifically said that His Father is the only true God.
Jesus also said that He is in His Father and His Father is in Him, and that He and the Father are one. (and that "one" is neuter gender and so means "one thing".
The gospel also makes it clear that the Father and Son are in God's Spirit and that the Spirit is in the Father and the Son.
Click to expand...

But then Jesus has no Father, because he is his Father as they are one.
 
IndigoChild5559

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Brian2 said:
One God, three persons. Where is that not rational?
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Can't be x and not x at the same time. Can't be one being and three beings at the same time. Irrational.

You know, I spent some time trying to study Trinitarianism, to understand it better. All of the Christian scholars admit that it is irrational, counter intuitive. There's even an old legend about Augustine coming to accept that he is not going to be able to make sense of it. You need to come around on this one.
 
Brian2

Brian2

Veteran Member
IndigoChild5559 said:
Can't be x and not x at the same time. Can't be one being and three beings at the same time. Irrational.

You know, I spent some time trying to study Trinitarianism, to understand it better. All of the Christian scholars admit that it is irrational, counter intuitive. There's even an old legend about Augustine coming to accept that he is not going to be able to make sense of it. You need to come around on this one.
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True, can't be 3 beings and 1 being at the same time, but can be 3 persons in the one being.
It's like with us humans. We are one being but in us is our mind and body and spirit.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Brian2 said:
True, can't be 3 beings and 1 being at the same time, but can be 3 persons in the one being.
It's like with us humans. We are one being but in us is our mind and body and spirit.
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1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

The three are one in the sense that they are one in Purpose, but that does not mean that they are all part of God.

I believe that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit work together, but they are separate. You can call them persons if you want to.
I do not believe that the three persons were part of One God as the Trinitarians believe.

The Baha’i Faith believes in a Trinity, and the detailed explanation is in this chapter: 27: THE TRINITY

In brief, here is how the Baha’i version of the Trinity operates.

God is exalted above anything that can ever be recounted or perceived so God remains in His own high place, on His Throne. God never descends to earth.

God sent Jesus from heaven and Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit from the womb of Mary into a human body.

Later, after Jesus reached a certain age, God sent the Holy Spirit to Him and it descended upon Him like a dove when Jesus was baptized.

After Jesus received the Holy Spirit from God the Father, Jesus brought the Holy Spirit to believers and it dwelt in believers.
The Holy Spirit does not enter the body, but rather it has a direct connection to the body through the soul, which is associated with the mind.
That is what the indwelling Holy Spirit means to a Baha'i.
 
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Brian2

Brian2

Veteran Member
Trailblazer said:
1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

The three are one in the sense that they are one in Purpose, but that does not mean that they are all part of God.

I believe that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit work together, but they are separate. You can call them persons if you want to.
I do not believe that the three persons were part of One God as the Trinitarians believe.

The Baha’i Faith believes in a Trinity, and the detailed explanation is in this chapter: 27: THE TRINITY

In brief, here is how the Baha’i version of the Trinity operates.

God is exalted above anything that can ever be recounted or perceived so God remains in His own high place, on His Throne. God never descends to earth.

God sent Jesus from heaven and Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit from the womb of Mary into a human body.

Later, after Jesus reached a certain age, God sent the Holy Spirit to Him and it descended upon Him like a dove when Jesus was baptized.

After Jesus received the Holy Spirit from God the Father, Jesus brought the Holy Spirit to believers and it dwelt in believers.
The Holy Spirit does not enter the body, but rather it has a direct connection to the body through the soul, which is associated with the mind.
That is what the indwelling Holy Spirit means to a Baha'i.
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OK
Just one thing. 1John 5:7 as you have quoted, has been deemed to be an error in the manuscripts and has been corrected in most translations these days.
 
IndigoChild5559

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Brian2 said:
True, can't be 3 beings and 1 being at the same time, but can be 3 persons in the one being.
It's like with us humans. We are one being but in us is our mind and body and spirit.
Click to expand...
Are you saying on thing divided into three parts? But that's not Trinitarianism. In the Trinity, each person is fully God.

Again, you are struggling to make sensible something which Christians themselves admit is not.
 
S

Sargonski

Well-Known Member
Brian2 said:
True, can't be 3 beings and 1 being at the same time, but can be 3 persons in the one being.
It's like with us humans. We are one being but in us is our mind and body and spirit.
Click to expand...

Are we talking schizophrenia here ? 3 persons - in one being = 3 minds in one being .. something is wrong with this picture ... and you have actually contradicted the "Can't be 3 beings in one" claim .. as 3 minds .. are 3 beings.

3 persons are 3 beings --

The only way I can envision a quazi Trinity .. is the Gnostic Idea of eminations from the Godhead referred to as Aeon's .. Where you have a single Godhead -- which is GOD -- but that you could have multiple emmanations from the Godhead .. these emmanations having their own will .. and abilities separate from the mind of the Godhead ..... but yet are still in a manner of speaking part of the Godhead.
 
Brian2

Brian2

Veteran Member
Sargonski said:
Are we talking schizophrenia here ? 3 persons - in one being = 3 minds in one being .. something is wrong with this picture ... and you have actually contradicted the "Can't be 3 beings in one" claim .. as 3 minds .. are 3 beings.

3 persons are 3 beings --

The only way I can envision a quazi Trinity .. is the Gnostic Idea of eminations from the Godhead referred to as Aeon's .. Where you have a single Godhead -- which is GOD -- but that you could have multiple emmanations from the Godhead .. these emmanations having their own will .. and abilities separate from the mind of the Godhead ..... but yet are still in a manner of speaking part of the Godhead.
Click to expand...

I don't imagine that all trinitarians see the trinity the same way and I doubt that it matters too much to God.
I see the Father as the only true God (as in John 17:3) but that in the Father is the Son and the Spirit of God.
They act together as one God but the Word or the Spirit or the Father might be in the fore, depending on what is being done.
God created all things through the Word, His Son.
The Holy Spirit went with Israel in the wilderness.
Jesus came to earth as a man and died.
In each of these it is God who is acting and God is present each time and both the Son and Spirit are God.
But that God is used as in John 1:1. The Word was with The God and the Word was God.
It is not Modalism where God has 3 ways to express Himself but is the same person. There are 3 persons and each is God as much as the others because the 3 are there present in each one, acting as one God through that one.
The more I say, the more complicated it might sound, even if I am trying to make it less complicated.
Words get in the way sometimes.
But it is not Modalism.
The Gnostic idea sounds somewhere between Modalism and the Trinity. It gets hard to pin point it exactly and I don't know that God ever wanted humans to put out a human dogmatic definition like the Trinity but it was just one of those things that the Church was forced to do by heresies, Arianism etc.
 
Brian2

Brian2

Veteran Member
IndigoChild5559 said:
Are you saying on thing divided into three parts? But that's not Trinitarianism. In the Trinity, each person is fully God.

Again, you are struggling to make sensible something which Christians themselves admit is not.
Click to expand...

See post 378 so I don't have to repeat it.
But yes, sometimes the more words used, the more confusion can result.
 
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