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Why do homosexuals and transgenders force religious people to accept them?

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Accept that homosexuality is good.

Homosexuals and transgenders are by definition those who enjoy having homosexual / transgender behavior. Therefore, if I am understanding you correctly, your complaint is that many of those people are hoping for your clear acceptance of themselves as they are.

I suppose I can understand that to a point at least. I was raised in a somewhat homophobic culture. We all just knew that gays would of course hide their homosexuality, expect and accept to be put into ridicule, or both.

Trust me, it all changes once you begin to actually meet those people in person and realize that they are not any better or worse than anyone else; they just have some specific gender orientations, which are neither harmful nor of their choice.

There is ultimately no more reason to question the morality of homosexuality or gender disphoria than there is to question our own being sexually attracted to a certain body type over others.

That is just part of what the person is. It has no moral meaning of its own.


All iam after is that homosexuals accept the reality. We follow islam and that means for religiouse and natural reasons we will never accept homosexuality in any way. We also accept that homosexuality and Islam is unmixable. So there cannot be homosexual muslims. You are either muslim or homosexual/lesbian.

That may or may not be true, although one can't help but notice that there is hardly even a rumor about a LGBT rights movement among Muslims, so forgive me if I assume that you are indeed right.

And in that case, what you are saying is that Islam is seriously misguided and must be challenged fiercely, to its destruction if need be, as long as it refuses to accept the inherent rights of people who do no evil and whose only crime is not fitting in the expectations of Muslims.


To reject and condemn homosexuality is our right.

Actually, it is not, and has never been, nor can it ever be.

You claim to believe that God states through the Quran that you have that right.

I won't dispute the accuracy of that claim, but I will point out that it is demonstrably, irrevocably wrong.

To reject and condemn homosexuality is, quite simply, immoral. It is giving oneself the right of disregarding and trampling over very basic rights and needs of other human beings. That you seem to sincerely believe that you do so because God told you that it is so changes nothing; your beliefs do not excuse you of basic moral discernment and responsibility.


Freedom of religion gives us this right.

Hardly.

You have freedom of belief, and by extension of religion, certainly. But that does not spare you, or anyone, from the basic moral duties and responsibilities that everyone has.


But as muslims we are religiously commanded to respect the laws of non-muslim countries.

That should make no difference whatsoever when it comes to respect and acceptance of homosexuals and transgenders, though.


My deeply apologies if i insulted you as homosexual person. I dont hate you personal, i just dislike homosexuality.
Imagine if all humans were homosexuals/lesbians, would mankind exist now?

Yes, albeit probably in far lesser numbers.

It does not make much of a difference, though. Humanity is basically destined to destroy itself eventually. Any attempts at shaping that eventual outcome by proposing deep, cruel self-aggression are by definition pointless.


My deeply apologies if i insulted you as homosexual person. I dont hate you personal, i just dislike homosexuality.
Imagine if all humans were homosexuals/lesbians, would mankind exist now?

Yes.


As this is a religious forum and religion is something I have been looking into for a while now I wish to point out that almost everything I have come across concerns peoples sexuality - who s gay who s not gay etc. My understanding of the bible is that it states quite clearly that homosexuality is an abomination. So why do we even have any kind of discussion about it? I agree that it is up to the individual, but what they decide is between themselves and God.

One reason to have that discussion is to decide whether and to which extent the Bible is of use as a morality guide. It is not entitled to over-rule basic decency.

Another is that, like it or not, we exist among other human beings and our beliefs and actions influence each other's well-being. We can't really wait until God makes his opinion manifest.

Last but not least, going by the usual standards of interpreting the Bible, it no more condemns homosexuality than it condones abominable behaviors such as slavery and genocide.
 

jeager106

Learning more about Jehovah.
Premium Member
I guess it comes down to realizing that we human beings have a duty to accept each other.

It may be a surprise and even a shock to you, but homosexuality and transgenderism must indeed be accepted. The only alternative would be to choose to pointlessly hurt homosexuals and transgenders, after all.

Why must I accept homosexuals? I need not accept homosexuals. I need not harm them, nor deny them any common rights. I have no desire to accept homosexuality nor do I have any desire to cause harm to them either.
A persons sexual preference is NONE OF MY BUSINESS. So why to so many homosexuals insist on marching in "gay rights" demonstrations? Why do so many people who have some claim to fame or office publically announce their sexual preference? I do not care about a persons sexual preferance.
It's become popular to go out of ones way to show regard to gay people.
I can't understand why "hurting" gays or trans even enters the mind.
How stupid is that?
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Why must I accept homosexuals?

Strictly speaking you do not, but it is not really in your best interest not to.

Rejecting homosexuals really is almost as limiting, as immoral and as unadvisable as being a rapist or a slaver.


I need not accept homosexuals. I need not harm them, nor deny them any common rights. I have no desire to accept homosexuality nor do I have any desire to cause harm to them either.

I suppose you could them somehow avoid interacting with most other people so that it makes no difference, but that would be very extreme and unnecessary.

Otherwise, you will in practice have to choose between learning to accept and respect homosexuals or instead encourage them to avoid you and lie to you about what and who they are.

I really hope you find it in yourself to make the constructive choice. We all deserve so.


A persons sexual preference is NONE OF MY BUSINESS.

In most situations that is true, but often enough we can't help but learn of them. It is just common sense and common courtesy to learn to deal constructively with those situations.


So why to so many homosexuals insist on marching in "gay rights" demonstrations?

To be acknowledged as fully entitled people, and to have their basic social and legal rights acknowledged as well.

For one thing, it is pretty much necessary for such a movement to exist before same sex marriage is duly recognized by law.


Why do so many people who have some claim to fame or office publically announce their sexual preference? I do not care about a persons sexual preferance.

It is hard enough to find a mate without making people guess whether they are on the run... :)


It's become popular to go out of ones way to show regard to gay people.
I can't understand why "hurting" gays or trans even enters the mind.
How stupid is that?

I don't know. I'm not quite following you here.
 

Midnight Rain

Well-Known Member
Why must I accept homosexuals? I need not accept homosexuals. I need not harm them, nor deny them any common rights. I have no desire to accept homosexuality nor do I have any desire to cause harm to them either.
A persons sexual preference is NONE OF MY BUSINESS. So why to so many homosexuals insist on marching in "gay rights" demonstrations? Why do so many people who have some claim to fame or office publically announce their sexual preference? I do not care about a persons sexual preferance.
It's become popular to go out of ones way to show regard to gay people.
I can't understand why "hurting" gays or trans even enters the mind.
How stupid is that?
The reason why people march in gay rights demonstrations is because there is still a lack of equality in the law. When that is changed and the only opposition to homosexuality is mere opinion in the minds of certain people then I don't think it will be an issue any longer.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
It's always so terribly amusing watching a good Muslims sharing the brilliant thinking found in Islam. Heartwarming, really.

It sheds quite a bit of light on the beliefs of the so-called moderate and "non-violent, peaceful" Muslims who are not part of that supposedly very fringe extremist minority. We can see just how infrequent extremism and intolerance are among "moderates," can't we?

<sarcasm>I say we throw all those degenerate gay people off the nearest cliff. (It's for their and society's own good.) </sarcasm>

I have heard more than one "moderate" Muslim argue things similar to what you said above with a completely straight, serious face, believe it or not.
 

Drolefille

PolyPanGeekGirl
Sooooo...

Bisexuals. What about us?
Right?
I think bis must truly be entirely exempt from it. I guess you have to like the other or like 'em both. This being based on the observation that bisexuality almost nearly never gets mentioned.
I guess that gives me a good reason to try it with a guy, it's for my immortal soul, after all.

If everyone were bisexual, humanity would be fine! So it must be ok.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
Let's turn this question around: Why do so many religious people, especially Muslims and Christians, try to force others not to accept homosexuals? I believe in equality and don't want to live by your worldview, which I believe to be discriminatory and hateful.

I live in a place where people are strongly encouraged and sometimes even forced to reject and hate homosexuals.

And I'm damn proud to say that it does not and will not work in my case.
 

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
Let's turn this question around: Why do so many religious people, especially Muslims and Christians, try to force others not to accept homosexuals? I believe in equality and don't want to live by your worldview, which I believe to be discriminatory and hateful.

I live in a place where people are strongly encouraged and sometimes even forced to reject and hate homosexuals.

And I'm damn proud to say that it is and will not work in my case.

*standing ovation*
 

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
Why must I accept homosexuals?
Because, in your own words:
I need not harm them, nor deny them any common rights. I have no desire to accept homosexuality nor do I have any desire to cause harm to them either.
A persons sexual preference is NONE OF MY BUSINESS.


Exactly so.

So why to so many homosexuals insist on marching in "gay rights" demonstrations?
Because when bigots go out of their way to denounce us and harm us and insist that our lives are too their business, it becomes necessary.

Why do so many people who have some claim to fame or office publically announce their sexual preference?
Because when bigots go out of their way to denounce us and harm us and insist that our lives are too their business, it becomes necessary.

I do not care about a persons sexual preferance.
Actually, it's rather obvious that you care quite a bit.

It's become popular to go out of ones way to show regard to gay people.
***staff edit***

I can't understand why "hurting" gays or trans even enters the mind.
Hurting is not limited to physical violence. ***staff edit***

***staff edit***

How stupid is that?
Extremely. So stop.
 
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Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
Let's turn this question around: Why do so many religious people, especially Muslims and Christians, try to force others not to accept homosexuals? I believe in equality and don't want to live by your worldview, which I believe to be discriminatory and hateful.

I live in a place where people are strongly encouraged and sometimes even forced to reject and hate homosexuals.

And I'm damn proud to say that it does not and will not work in my case.
Love you too, sweet.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
A persons sexual preference is NONE OF MY BUSINESS. So why to so many homosexuals insist on marching in "gay rights" demonstrations?
Because it's a demonstration to raise awareness that homosexual and transgender people are denied very basic rights that granted without question to others.
I can't understand why "hurting" gays or trans even enters the mind.
Because parents have kicked out children, because people have been fired from their jobs, because people have been evicted from their homes, because people are stalked and harassed, because some people want us to shut up and go back in the closet. Homosexuals should not have to keep their parts of their lives that everybody else openly talks about because a few people get shook up by the idea of someone being gay and not being able to get over it. Transsexuals should be able to experience love, sex, and romance without having to disclose their past. In other words, people should just be regarded as regular every day people. What other people do, as long as its consensual and no one is being harmed, shouldn't matter to you. But because so many people make it their business, and make such a big fuss over a difference that should be as important as shoe size, politicians and celebrities mention it, people march in parades, and people openly discuss it to make it more normalized.
 

gnomon

Well-Known Member
As muslim i should have the freedom to denounce homosexuality and believe that it is something evil.
Iam not calling for the death of homos, lesbians and transgenders.

As a fool I'm free to denounce reason as being.......reasonable. For I am a foolish man who denounces that which is reasonable. Respect it because I say so and such foolishness is a tradition.

Stand with me in my foolish solidarity and not let the government impose laws against my foolishness against denouncing that which is reasonable.

Post note: No religious belief or religious tradition is inherently deserving of an ounce of respect. Nor should any government be foolish enough to believe such respect should be given.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Let's turn this question around: Why do so many religious people, especially Muslims and Christians, try to force others not to accept homosexuals? I believe in equality and don't want to live by your worldview, which I believe to be discriminatory and hateful.

I live in a place where people are strongly encouraged and sometimes even forced to reject and hate homosexuals.

And I'm damn proud to say that it does not and will not work in my case.
As a gay man with more than an average spiritual streak, it was during my investigations of Islam, trolling through authentic Muslim sites, that I came across Islamic notions of sexuality. For me, that was the last straw and is largely why I am so adamantly against Islam. Not incorrectly, I realized that under Muslim control, I'd be killed as a deranged heretic or heavily persecuted for being gay. Either case is untenable. And yes, it is ingrained hatred, devoid of compassion and understanding.

As an aside, in spiritual matters especially, I understood that under Islamic doctrine, people like me do not exist. I have news.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Post note: No religious belief or religious tradition is inherently deserving of an ounce of respect. Nor should any government be foolish enough to believe such respect should be given.
This, in a nutshell, is why the Obama administration is intellectually bankrupt in its approach to the Muslim world.
 
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