Why do muslims hate democracy

[Shad]

Response: All of which makes my point. That they lost the wars. Yet they did not just lose. They were divided and used against each other with divide and conquer tactics by the West. Then the future leaders were aided and supported by the West through deception and propaganda to keep the Muslims divided to this day. So your argument only makes my point.

Yes but losing wars is a sign that the systems within the Empire was not able to counter systems used by Europeans. It's armies were outclassed. It economic system was slow to shift to industry, production and trade. It's social policy caused resentment in Muslim and non-Muslim populations. You are blaming the West for the Ottoman's inability to adapt. It is not the Wests fault, they just took advantage of a failing state. The cracks were already present and were being exposed. If the government does not fix the sources of these crack you can not blame any one but the government in change. You also show that Muslims were easy to fool into taking up nationalism. Such an ideology would never have an hope if there was no population supporting it. Again the cracks show the idea of Muslim unity is anything but historical fact.

 

[Harikrish]

Response: And Muhammad was still illiterate as well as many early Muslims, yet the Qur'an is still uncorrupted and memorized after his death. So your point remains invalid, and only demonstrates the miracle of the Qur'an.

The miracle of the Quran and Mohammad's teaching resulted in the creation of the Sunni and Shiate Muslims. Paradoxically Islam the religion of peace depends on the survival of one of the two camps. Was it too much for an illiterate prophet to foresee this destructive rivalry?

Is being illiterate a prerequisite for Muslims or is it a desired attribute because it brings one to the level of the prophet?

 

[Al-Fatihah]

@alfatihah

Why do you always write "Response" before your reply?

Response: It is a customary habit resulting from when I first began debating on websites with a mobile phone and the only way to recognize my post from others was to put "response" in front of my post. Since I am now known and identified for it, I continue to do it.

 

[Al-Fatihah]

Yes but losing wars is a sign that the systems within the Empire was not able to counter systems used by Europeans. It's armies were outclassed. It economic system was slow to shift to industry, production and trade. It's social policy caused resentment in Muslim and non-Muslim populations. You are blaming the West for the Ottoman's inability to adapt. It is not the Wests fault, they just took advantage of a failing state. The cracks were already present and were being exposed. If the government does not fix the sources of these crack you can not blame any one but the government in change. You also show that Muslims were easy to fool into taking up nationalism. Such an ideology would never have an hope if there was no population supporting it. Again the cracks show the idea of Muslim unity is anything but historical fact.

Response: Adaptation was never the problem. The problem is the purposeful divide and conquer tactics by the West to this day, along with propaganda, to suppress the Muslim nations so that they remain imperialists. So asking the oppressed to adapt to their oppressor has no merit.

 

[Al-Fatihah]

The miracle of the Quran and Mohammad's teaching resulted in the creation of the Sunni and Shiate Muslims. Paradoxically Islam the religion of peace depends on the survival of one of the two camps. Was it too much for an illiterate prophet to foresee this destructive rivalry?

Is being illiterate a prerequisite for Muslims or is it a desired attribute because it brings one to the level of the prophet?

Response: The division of sects in Islam is prophesied by Muhammad (saw). Illiteracy is not a goal of Islam either.

 

[sojourner]

With the number of sects and sub-sects of Islam, each largely denouncing the other, the teachings don't seem to be all that "clear"...

Bump...

Not playing any more, Al? No more "reasonable" answers?

 

[Shad]

Response: Adaptation was never the problem. The problem is the purposeful divide and conquer tactics by the West to this day, along with propaganda, to suppress the Muslim nations so that they remain imperialists. So asking the oppressed to adapt to their oppressor has no merit.

A tactic they were not able to adapt to... If the tactic works it shows the Ottoman were not able to counter it. When a system fails to adapt this shows it's weakness. Asking a nation to adapt and develop a strategy to avoid it's own downfall is not asking much. Nations which can not adapt die. Your type of thinking is why the Ottoman Empire collapsed. Lack of a modern military is not refusing to adapt to the oppressors, it's plain stupidity. Developing systems to compete with European systems is not adaption to the oppressors, it is intelligent. It is called progress.

 

[Al-Fatihah]

A tactic they were not able to adapt to... If the tactic works it shows the Ottoman were not able to counter it. When a system fails to adapt this shows it's weakness. Asking a nation to adapt and develop a strategy to avoid it's own downfall is not asking much. Nations which can not adapt die. Your type of thinking is why the Ottoman Empire collapsed. Lack of a modern military is not refusing to adapt to the oppressors, it's plain stupidity. Developing systems to compete with European systems is not adaption to the oppressors, it is intelligent. It is called progress.

Response: No one disputed that it's not wise or progressive to adapt modern military. Your strawman fails. What was stated is that Islam is not the cause for the weak conditions of Muslim States but that the Oppressive divide and conquer tactics of the West is the reason. So everything you just stated in regards to the West defeating the Ottomans and taking advantage of them confirms that. Thus making my point.

 

[Harikrish]

Response: No one disputed that it's not wise or progressive to adapt modern military. Your strawman fails. What was stated is that Islam is not the cause for the weak conditions of Muslim States but that the Oppressive divide and conquer tactics of the West is the reason. So everything you just stated in regards to the West defeating the Ottomans and taking advantage of them confirms that. Thus making my point.

So your point is the western influence prevailed and the Muslim states never recovered from the initial oppressive arm of the west. But many countries were colonized, India, parts of Asia, Africa etc. but with time they have all bounced back. The Arab and Muslim states appear to be stuck in the medieval times with little hopes of advancing. Religion which can be such a strong catalyst and glue is not bringing the Muslims together. In fact it is so full of hate and savagery, the west has to intervene to stop the genocide.

 

[sojourner]

Response: No one disputed that it's not wise or progressive to adapt modern military. Your strawman fails. What was stated is that Islam is not the cause for the weak conditions of Muslim States but that the Oppressive divide and conquer tactics of the West is the reason. So everything you just stated in regards to the West defeating the Ottomans and taking advantage of them confirms that. Thus making my point.

IOW: God's not actually on your side. OR: if you're so weak that you can't stand up to "infidels," perhaps Islam isn't the great social bulwark you imagine it to be.

 

[Shad]

Response: No one disputed that it's not wise or progressive to adapt modern military. Your strawman fails. What was stated is that Islam is not the cause for the weak conditions of Muslim States but that the Oppressive divide and conquer tactics of the West is the reason. So everything you just stated in regards to the West defeating the Ottomans and taking advantage of them confirms that. Thus making my point.

It was this failure to change their military which was the point. The old institutions of the Empire were unable to produce progress for reforms. The reformers tried to adapt secular systems of government , economics, social and military ideas from Europe. If Islamic systems are replaced with secular systems it shows that one is inferior and one is superior. The Ottomans were still used a semi-feudal system of government. This gave rise to nationalism in the Empire long before the West did anything.

 

[Sleeppy]

Response: The challenge clearly states for YOU YOURSELF to inspire enough followers to conquer and rule a nation, or even just the street you live on, by using human-made speech/literature that goes against the wants of a mass of people, as proof that such an act is humanly possible. So have you conquered and ruled a nation? NO. Have you conquered and ruled the street you live on? NO. Thus you've done absolutely nothing in answering the challenge and have been dodging it from the beginning. Thus your ducking and dodging to attempt the challenge once again confirms your denial to the fact that the Qur'an is the true word of Allah.

You say the challenge is to prove it is not humanly possible.. But in fact it is. I don't need to do anything; there are thousands of examples. Your challenge is constantly being disproven. According to the Quran, what should be your punishment for lying and willingly being deceived?

Also you ignored the fact that there are no two waters or seas that have an impassable barrier between them.

 

[sojourner]

Response: Adaptation was never the problem. The problem is the purposeful divide and conquer tactics by the West to this day, along with propaganda, to suppress the Muslim nations so that they remain imperialists. So asking the oppressed to adapt to their oppressor has no merit.

Still not taking responsibility for yourself?

 

[Al-Fatihah]

It was this failure to change their military which was the point. The old institutions of the Empire were unable to produce progress for reforms. The reformers tried to adapt secular systems of government , economics, social and military ideas from Europe. If Islamic systems are replaced with secular systems it shows that one is inferior and one is superior. The Ottomans were still used a semi-feudal system of government. This gave rise to nationalism in the Empire long before the West did anything.

Response: They could not reform because they were oppressed by the West and the adaptation of secular systems was employed by the West. So again, you make my point. No source on the planet says that any Muslim empire sought to adopt a secular system prior to the conquest of the West. Not one. Nor can you provide one. The systems came about from deceptive propaganda and divide and conquer tactics by the West in order for the West to set up the Muslim Puppets they needed in order to maintain control of the region. Demonstrating once again that the political, economical, and social systems are not Islamic and have nothing to do with Islam. They are systems, plotted, perpetuated, and propagated successfully by the West. Not Islam.

 

[Al-Fatihah]

You say the challenge is to prove it is not humanly possible.. But in fact it is. I don't need to do anything; there are thousands of examples. Your challenge is constantly being disproven. According to the Quran, what should be your punishment for lying and willingly being deceived?

Also you ignored the fact that there are no two waters or seas that have an impassable barrier between them.

Response: Yet your own failure tom answer the challenge yourself supports the fact that the act is impossible, thus refuting yourself.

Also, you continue to fail to provide any evidence that there are no two waters with a barrier between them, debunking yourself as usual.

 

[Al-Fatihah]

Still not taking responsibility for yourself?

Response: You failed to answer the Qur'an challenge. So my only responsibility now is to inform you how your failure makes my point.

 

[Al-Fatihah]

So your point is the western influence prevailed and the Muslim states never recovered from the initial oppressive arm of the west. But many countries were colonized, India, parts of Asia, Africa etc. but with time they have all bounced back. The Arab and Muslim states appear to be stuck in the medieval times with little hopes of advancing. Religion which can be such a strong catalyst and glue is not bringing the Muslims together. In fact it is so full of hate and savagery, the west has to intervene to stop the genocide.

Response: All the other regions have complied to the political system and political deals by the West which enables them to prosper. Whereas Muslims refuse the to agree to their imperialistic views, which is why they are still behind. So the West does not intervene to stop the genocide. They pretend to do so to give you the impression that that the region is savage and the West is their savior.

Western power is far superior than any Muslim state. Period. So if they wanted to end the fighting, then can easily do so. They don't want the fighting to end, for they know that if the Muslims unite and establish a caliphate, there will be no more Western powers.

I don't fault them. That's smart for them to do if they want to stay in power. At the same time, ignoring that it is the West itself that causes and stirs up the problems is issue.

 

[sojourner]

Response: You failed to answer the Qur'an challenge. So my only responsibility now is to inform you how your failure makes my point.

Sooo... refusal to play inane games constitutes "proof" of the validity of the Koran?? :sarcastic

 

[Al-Fatihah]

Sooo... refusal to play inane games constitutes "proof" of the validity of the Koran?? :sarcastic

Response: Your failure to back such a claim while failing the Qur'an challenge supports the fact that the Qur'an is valid.

 

[outhouse]

the Qur'an challenge .

is a lie, and worthless


When you can give me a good reason why no credible historians in the whole WORLD uses your book for any credible history of Jesus or Israel, we will be listening.

Until then quit posting trash.