Why Do Theists Believe In God?

[Shantanu]

Yes, it is good to search for truth. I believe in this also.
Like billions of people, you chose to follow a path in search of truth. Like billions of others - some spending double the amount of time you spent, in your search, you believe you have found the truth, or God.
What you believe you have found is still a belief, isn't it?
It may seem convincing, and in fact, you may be fully convinced, but you haven't proven that you are right, have you?

Don't get me wrong. I am not saying that having a strong belief and conviction is wrong. Many people have, and I believe being on a serious quest for truth, demonstrates sincerity - which is good... although not necessarily right.

So I am making the point that although we can all present an argument for why we believe we are on the correct path, or found the truth, we cannot prove it.
It will however, be proven eventually.

If you disagree, then are you saying you can prove that you are God?
Let's see then.

I have not proved it yet.

 

[Kenny]

Proof you are wrong: Do your fellow pastors belong to the same brand of 'christian' as you?

Yes.

We all believe you are saved by grace and not by works Eph 2:8-9
We all believe that Jesus is the Word manifest John 1:1
We all believe that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life John 14:6
We all believe that it is the blood of Jesus that washes our sins away Heb 9:12
We all believe that Jesus was raised from the dead Acts 3:15

Etc etc etc.

You see, many times denominations is about multiplying capacity within the context of their efforts (Salvation Army). Sometimes denominations is about a central figure that started hundreds of churches (Wesleyan Methodist). Sometimes it is an emphasis on a certain aspect of the Gospel (Baptist church).

However, there are some things that one may differ on but not on the foundational beliefs. Not a different "brand" pf Christianity. Christianity is about Jesus Christ.

But I realize you want it to be different brand of Christianity.

You can find them. The JW use a different Bible and the Mormons use a different Bible and thus a different Christianity.

 

[Kenny]

The only way to become perfect is to seek the truth about everything that moves and accommodate oneself within the truth discovered.

Yes... that is the first method where it is man who moves to become perfect. It is good to seek truth but for us Jesus is the truth.

 

[Shantanu]

Yes... that is the first method where it is man who moves to become perfect. It is good to seek truth but for us Jesus is the truth.

There has to be something for man to measure up to when he is seeking perfection so that one has no choice but to seek God on the assumption that He is perfect. He may of course not be perfect so what does man do except follow a Holy Book or a Messiah who is acknowledged as being the anointed one, right?

 

[Ancient Soul]

They want obviously to live normal lives doing what comes naturally to them: what do they mean by being 'saved'?

It's complicated.

Their mythology has this wrathful, jealous, horrifically cruel, unfair, etc, "god".

Then the claim is that he made his people all wicked/sinful creatures who he wanted to destroy, every last one of them.

So here it gets even more convoluted. As the mythology splits into two main branches. One claims that their "god" gave birth to himself thru a human women called Mary. The other claims that he had a "son" born thru Mary. Both branches of belief call their "god" or "son of god" Jesus.

Then this Jesus was killed by mere humans. The story claims this "death" was their "god's" way to forgive all of the people of all of their "sins".

And so anyone who believes this story is automatically "saved" from eternal torture from their "god" and live forever.

 

[Ancient Soul]

I see the attraction of Christianity, such as it is, to be more about Earthly things: a sense of community, social events, knowledge that there's charitable support if things go wrong, opportunities for business networking, etc.

I mean, just the idea of meeting up with people once a week who are genuinely happy to see you... there's huge appeal in that for many people.

I think that for a lot of people, the reasons they stay in their faith have more to do with familiarity and comfort than they have to do with intellectual positions on theological points; they stay in their church because leaving would be like moving away from the town they grew up in.

That's a valid point.

That's what all cults try to cultivate, as it makes it easier to control people with the fear of being rejected by their church "family".

 

[nPeace]

You can find them. The JW use a different Bible and the Mormons use a different Bible and thus a different Christianity.

What's a different Bible?

There are different translations of the Bible.
ASV
AKJV
AMP
CEB
CEV
ESV
GW
GNB
ISV
JB
KJV
KJ2
TLB
MSG
NAB
NEB
NIV
NKJV
NWT
RSV
REB
TNIV
WEB
...among others.

These are not different Bibles.
Is the King James Version (KJV) a different Bible from the New King James Version (NKJV) ?
No. There are different translations, same Bible.
The NWT is the same Bible as the KJV. Both are different translations of the Bible.

Different people have their preference as to their particular choice of translation.

The Mormon Bible is not a different translation, but indeed a different Bible, so LDS claim that there are two Bibles God gave us.
JW do not have a different Bible. They use one, just as you do.
So which Bible do you use Ken?

 

[Ancient Soul]

Yes, it is good to search for truth. I believe in this also.
Like billions of people, you chose to follow a path in search of truth. Like billions of others - some spending double the amount of time you spent, in your search, you believe you have found the truth, or God.
What you believe you have found is still a belief, isn't it?
It may seem convincing, and in fact, you may be fully convinced, but you haven't proven that you are right, have you?

Don't get me wrong. I am not saying that having a strong belief and conviction is wrong. Many people have, and I believe being on a serious quest for truth, demonstrates sincerity - which is good... although not necessarily right.

So I am making the point that although we can all present an argument for why we believe we are on the correct path, or found the truth, we cannot prove it.
It will however, be proven eventually.

If you disagree, then are you saying you can prove that you are God?
Let's see then.

While all good points, I would love to see more people approach an understanding of God the way "Shantanu" describes, rather than blindly following whichever religion got to them first, and grinding everything to a halt.

At least "Shantanu" is using his God given rational thinking. Which is way more reliable to determine what is "true" and what is "false", rather than just going along believing in the most silly religious beliefs without question.

And seriously, don't try manipulating people into agreeing with you with such comments like:

"If you disagree, then are you saying you can prove that you are God?"

Come on, just because someone disagrees with you, don't jump all the way to accusing them of believing themselves to be "God". That's way, way, way, overkill manipulation.

 

[Ancient Soul]

Not really.

It is a matter of the horse before the cart or the cart before the horse. The horse (salvation) is free and belief in Jesus is all you need (Ephesians 2:8-9; John 3:16). The cart are the works that you produce because you are saved vs. trying to produce enough works in a cart to pull the horse (salvation) to reality.

Sorry if this offends you, but you stink at metaphors.

For yet again you claim:

"belief in Jesus is all you need"

That shows you believe that's all there is to it. And so proves my point. A lame footnote mention about "works" doesn't cut it.

 

[Ancient Soul]

Sure!

As a synthesis, there are two forms to become perfect. That which man can do by working his way up the ladder (such as reincarnation) or that which the Creator, the Almighty, can do by His power and capacity.

That which the Creator God Almighty can do is found in John 3:16 as Jesus said, "He who is born of the Spirit, is spirit". where the Creator God Almighty causes His Spirit to re-birth man's spirit once and for all. Perfection because it is made by the perfect one.

And has option #2 ever happened for you?

 

[Wisdom of Ages]

(Kind of an after thought follow-up to my thread "Why Is It That Atheists Don't Believe In God?")

In One Word Tell Us Why You Think Theists Believe In God.

After that one word feel free to elaborate.

My one word is "NEED."

.

.......................H Y P N O T I Z E D............................

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Yes.

We all believe you are saved by grace and not by works Eph 2:8-9
We all believe that Jesus is the Word manifest John 1:1
We all believe that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life John 14:6
We all believe that it is the blood of Jesus that washes our sins away Heb 9:12
We all believe that Jesus was raised from the dead Acts 3:15

Etc etc etc.

You see, many times denominations is about multiplying capacity within the context of their efforts (Salvation Army). Sometimes denominations is about a central figure that started hundreds of churches (Wesleyan Methodist). Sometimes it is an emphasis on a certain aspect of the Gospel (Baptist church).

However, there are some things that one may differ on but not on the foundational beliefs. Not a different "brand" pf Christianity. Christianity is about Jesus Christ.

But I realize you want it to be different brand of Christianity.

You can find them. The JW use a different Bible and the Mormons use a different Bible and thus a different Christianity.

That's so cute. Yet? The differences are so great that you cannot eliminate all the different versions of 'christian', and join under ONE (1) NAME.

Why is that? Why do you persist in the false claim of being the same?

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

But I realize you want it to be different brand of Christianity.

.

No-- what I want is for them all to go away, but that's not going to happen.

Because new "brands" of Genuine Christian are forming every day-- each having a separate and distinctly different name over their doors.

Proof? Is the fact you all call yourselves by different names, and have different and conflicting "statements of faith" in your Official Handbooks.

Worse: you each claim the bible says very different things. Proof that none of you have an actual god, who explains things to you.... you are all going entirely on your own.

 

[Shantanu]

It's complicated.

Their mythology has this wrathful, jealous, horrifically cruel, unfair, etc, "god".

Then the claim is that he made his people all wicked/sinful creatures who he wanted to destroy, every last one of them.

So here it gets even more convoluted. As the mythology splits into two main branches. One claims that their "god" gave birth to himself thru a human women called Mary. The other claims that he had a "son" born thru Mary. Both branches of belief call their "god" or "son of god" Jesus.

Then this Jesus was killed by mere humans. The story claims this "death" was their "god's" way to forgive all of the people of all of their "sins".

And so anyone who believes this story is automatically "saved" from eternal torture from their "god" and live forever.

In a place called 'hell' to which they would otherwise have gone after death, and instead they go to heaven after being 'saved', right?

 

[Kenny]

What's a different Bible?

There are different translations of the Bible.
ASV
AKJV
AMP
CEB
CEV
ESV
GW
GNB
ISV
JB
KJV
KJ2
TLB
MSG
NAB
NEB
NIV
NKJV
NWT
RSV
REB
TNIV
WEB
...among others.

These are not different Bibles.
Is the King James Version (KJV) a different Bible from the New King James Version (NKJV) ?
No. There are different translations, same Bible.
The NWT is the same Bible as the KJV. Both are different translations of the Bible.

Different people have their preference as to their particular choice of translation.

The Mormon Bible is not a different translation, but indeed a different Bible, so LDS claim that there are two Bibles God gave us.
JW do not have a different Bible. They use one, just as you do.
So which Bible do you use Ken?

there is a difference between different translations and different Bibles.

The Mormons and the JW got there Bibles by an angel that said "I'm giving you the correct translations" (paraphrased)

That is called a different bible.

Yes, all the others are different translations

 

[Kenny]

Sorry if this offends you, but you stink at metaphors.

For yet again you claim:

"belief in Jesus is all you need"

That shows you believe that's all there is to it. And so proves my point. A lame footnote mention about "works" doesn't cut it.

LOL

If you say so... but, yes, no works for salvation as I quoted Eph 2:8-9

 

[Kenny]

That's so cute. Yet? The differences are so great that you cannot eliminate all the different versions of 'christian', and join under ONE (1) NAME.

Why is that? Why do you persist in the false claim of being the same?

Because just because you say so doesn't it make it so. OR maybe it is just a different perspective.

 

[Kenny]

No-- what I want is for them all to go away, but that's not going to happen.

Because new "brands" of Genuine Christian are forming every day-- each having a separate and distinctly different name over their doors.

Proof? Is the fact you all call yourselves by different names, and have different and conflicting "statements of faith" in your Official Handbooks.

Worse: you each claim the bible says very different things. Proof that none of you have an actual god, who explains things to you.... you are all going entirely on your own.

Hmmmm....

I've read a plethora of "statements of faith" and I haven't found one I didn't agree with. But I'm sure I would eventually find one.

 

[Kenny]

There has to be something for man to measure up to when he is seeking perfection so that one has no choice but to seek God on the assumption that He is perfect. He may of course not be perfect so what does man do except follow a Holy Book or a Messiah who is acknowledged as being the anointed one, right?

That is true. IMO, you could use almost any religious law.

For Christians, if I were to take just one that Jesus mentioned, "If you so much a look and lust, you have committed the sin of adultery in your heart". That eliminated perfection on the vast majority of people on the earth.

One could work at not doing it, but perfection in God's standard is never having done it.

In another belief system, if it were "I will ask myself daily, “How can I serve?” and “How can I help?” The answers to these questions will allow me to help and serve my fellow human beings with love.", the moment one is suppose to serve and didn't or didn't do it with real love, then that person is no longer perfect.

One could work at trying to achieve it, but God's standard of perfection would be having done it perfectly.

If Sharia law says "Don't steal". The moment that person took a paper clip from the job or a pen, he would have stolen.

For those who decided to be Christians, it is simply for those who have come to a place and said, "I am not perfect and can't reach Heaven (or any other word for it) on my own. I recognize that only the Creator, Almighty God, can make me perfect through the atoning sacrifice of Jesus through the cross and His resurrection".

Hopefully I explained with clarity.

 

[Shantanu]

That is true. IMO, you could use almost any religious law.

For Christians, if I were to take just one that Jesus mentioned, "If you so much a look and lust, you have committed the sin of adultery in your heart". That eliminated perfection on the vast majority of people on the earth.

One could work at not doing it, but perfection in God's standard is never having done it.

In another belief system, if it were "I will ask myself daily, “How can I serve?” and “How can I help?” The answers to these questions will allow me to help and serve my fellow human beings with love.", the moment one is suppose to serve and didn't or didn't do it with real love, then that person is no longer perfect.

One could work at trying to achieve it, but God's standard of perfection would be having done it perfectly.

If Sharia law says "Don't steal". The moment that person took a paper clip from the job or a pen, he would have stolen.

For those who decided to be Christians, it is simply for those who have come to a place and said, "I am not perfect and can't reach Heaven (or any other word for it) on my own. I recognize that only the Creator, Almighty God, can make me perfect through the atoning sacrifice of Jesus through the cross and His resurrection".

Hopefully I explained with clarity.

Yes I am certainly understanding your Judeo-Christian take on how to attain perfection of man. We Hindus attain it through the yoga of satya-advaita in a practical way without the baggage of delusions inherent in the Abrahamic religions.