Why Do You Reject Jesus?

[Truthseeker]

I go with the scholars rather than with Christian tradition that says that the gospels were written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.
How do we know that what these authors wrote accurately represents what Jesus said or did? There is no way we can know that so it has to be believed solely upon faith.

I agree that the Gospels were probably not written by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. I don't trust entirely scholars, though, either, though I lean towards them rather than tradition. They were not entirely accurate, nobody knows how inaccurate. Mark was the first Gospel, and Matthew and Luke apparently were based on Mark, with an additional source the scholars call "Q" that Luke and Matthew had in common. John is the most mysterious, it is independent of the rest, and presents in a different order where the disciples knew who Jesus was. In John Jesus talks about His station a lot, that's where we get most of that material. Generally scholars believe that John was written last, but who really knows. "John" apparently wanted to present some additional material to round out the picture, so that lends itself to scholars believing that "John" was last.

What is this source "Q" that Matthew and Luke have in common, that is a mystery. It is not written anywhere independent of those two Gospels. How close to when Jesus lived was that written down, if it was written down? Remember that people can memorize and pass on their memories. Certainly the gap between what Jesus said and when it was written down is miniscule compared when what Moses said was written down, or what Buddha said was written down. It was decades, not centuries.

 

[Ebionite]

You just like to argue, you once again didn't answer my question and I really can't have a discussion with someone this intellectually stunted... so now I'm ignoring you. Buh bye

LOL First you say I'm arrogant then ignorant and now intellectually stunted.

Of course you are not going to identify a non-existant question so your only option is to abandon the field.

You actually supported my position when you made your false claim about Jesus being in violation of the Torah re kosher because the righteous servant had a problem with false witnesses and you are are ideologically aligned with his adversaries.

 

[HaEmeth]

I, [even] I, [am] YHWH; and beside me [there is] no saviour.
Isaiah 43:11

Pray you are not equating Jesus with YHWH.

Jesus' Father has committed all the judging to his Son. YHWH has all the right to do so being the supreme judge, of course.

John 5:22, 27 "Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, ... And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man." - NIV

Who to save is, therefore, delegated to Jesus as well - as the designated judge.

Doesn't it follow that YHWH is not the same person as Jesus? Jesus is the saviour only by authority of YHWH.

Peace mate

 

[Sargonski]

@Sargonski @Bharat Jhunjhunwala

So YHWH died; I didn't know this; I was still waiting to see if YHWH would learn how to overcome being jealous.

No kidding .. some kind of twin demiurge that one.. No wonder the Israelites went back to worshiping the Most High Cow God .. Chief of the heavens .. but Yes .. when Lord Marduk destroyed "The place where YHWH's name resides" that was YHWH .. one of 70 Sons of EL dying at the hand of Lord Marduk .. Least according the last remaining two tribes Judah and Benjamin .. and YHWH was their National God .. so they should know..

Not sure how this factored into Judaism which is born ~ 100-200 years later .. a bit of a mystery this new God .. who is nothing like the old God .. this new God we can identify with the God of King Cyrus of Persia "The annointed one of God" that God being Ahura Mazda ?? I guess ? the primodial uncreated God .. sexless .. and a twin of sorts having a mirror image dark side of sorts .. This God having no similarity to the antropomorphic xenophobic genocideal Maniac with the most petty and nasty of human characteristics.

So while the new God is not YHWH .. least not the Old YHWH .. this new God has indeed overcome being jealous .. as this God is so great there is nothing to be jealous of .. this a God for a monotheistic perspective ... something not found in the entire history of the Israelites .. raging polytheists that bunch ..

 

[Lisa Sims]

I, [even] I, [am] YHWH; and beside me [there is] no saviour.
Isaiah 43:11

Respectfully, Isaiah has not been idle, lo, these many centuries:

“May you be blessed mightily with the great gift of the Father’s Love. I am Isaiah and I come to bring my light and my prayers added to yours, to draw the great blessings of G-d upon us and upon this world of yours, so in need of these blessings. The great breath of G-d shall sweep over each one of you and change you forever. This is G-d’s promise to each one. This is G-d’s commitment to His children, that the Essence that resides within His mighty Soul shall be given and shall be given abundantly; that each one of you may benefit from this gift, this touch from G-d, and each one of you shall find your way into greater heights of love, light and truth…” Isaiah, 2/20/2024

“Beloved souls, I am Isaiah. The world of which you inhabit is crumbling before your eyes. Though you sit in this opulence and luxury, it is an illusion. Go outside the doors, and you will see the suffering of humanity and how the systems and ways of being in the world that have been established by those in power and those with great wealth, cannot sustain itself…” Isaiah, 1/3/2024

“I am Isaiah. I come to uplift you, to bring you to that place far beyond this Earthly plane, that place so true to G-d that you are in the joy and the bliss of His Presence, the sweet peace that comes as He envelops us all…” Isaiah, 10/15/2023

“I am Isaiah. G-d lifts a veil between himself and your souls. As you pray together in this way you form a mighty cry out to G-d and G-d responds with His Touch upon your souls. All the conditions of your world cannot keep you from G-d, beloved souls. No matter your circumstances, no matter the situations upon your earthly plane, G-d will always respond to your prayers provided they come from your heart and are felt deeply. The depth of your prayers will determine the power of the response that G-d has to them. I urge you to pray deeply and focus upon the great gift He has to give to every soul, that is His Essence flowing into your souls. Pray that we in the Celestial Kingdom will come to be with you so as to encourage you to pray for this great gift to awaken your soul to the inflowing of G-d’s Love…” Isaiah, 2/21/2021

“G-d is infecting the world with Love. He pours His Love into many parts of your world creating great change for individuals and for the many races of this world, change that will come in surprising ways. Those who feel animosity towards others shall lay this down at G-d’s Feet and will come to embrace their brothers and sisters, to see all as equals and beloved…”
Note from the Medium. This message was a powerful declaration from Isaiah. The spiritual power in the room was extraordinary and those present felt it keenly. My hope is that the reader will also feel the power and beauty of this declaration for the end of the era of darkness brought on by our inhumanity towards each other. God bless, Al Fike
Isaiah, 8/29/2018

“I am Isaiah. G-d has brought you together my beloveds. His Hand is upon each one of you. Remember the blessings that you have received in your time together will be shared with those you love, that much flows out to them as it does to you my beloveds. You are within this great wave of Light and Love…” Isaiah, 2/21/2018

“Beloved children, carriers of the Father’s Love within. Blessings to you, I am Isaiah and I come to speak with words of love and acknowledgement of your efforts and precious souls as you walk this time together in prayer and conversation, as you come to know one another and forge the bonds of love…” Isaiah, 5/19/2014

Scriptural References:

Deuteronomy 4:29: "But if from there, you will SEEK the LORD your G-d, you will FIND Him if you SEEK Him with all your HEART and with all your SOUL."

1 Chronicles 22:19: "Now set your HEART and SOUL to SEEK the LORD your G-d.”

Psalms 51:10-12 “Create in me a clean heart, O G-d, and put a new and right spirit within me. Do not cast me away from your presence, and do not take your holy spirit from me. Restore to me the joy of your salvation, and sustain in me a willing spirit"

Proverbs 8:17 “I Love those who love me, and those who SEEK ME DILIGENTLY, will FIND me.”

Isaiah 60:1-3 “Arise, shine, for your light has come, and the glory of the Lord rises upon you. See, darkness covers the earth and thick darkness is over the peoples, but the Lord rises upon you and his glory appears over you.”

Jeremiah 29:12-13: "Then you will call upon Me and come and pray to Me, and I will listen to you. You will SEEK Me and FIND Me when you SEARCH for Me with all your HEART"

Jeremiah 31:33-34 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their G-d, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

Ezekiel 36:26-27 “And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.”

The prophets of old found communion with G-d and have much to teach us, both about how to pray diligently, and in their prophecies foretelling the Re-birth and One-ness with G-d. He imparted many blessings to them. They did not however have the possibility of seeking and obtaining the Divine Nature (G-d's Love) until Jesus brought news of its re-bestowal (after the default of the first parents) and how to receive it through prayer.

They only heard of his message of the re-birth when he began his public ministry on Earth, and also when he came to preach to spirit beings in the hells and the six spiritual heavens (paradise) as he ascended to the gates of the Kingdom where thousands were ready and able to enter therein with him. Mary, mother of Jesus, Dec. 1998

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

What is your reason for not accepting Jesus Christ as your lord and savior? The one who saves us all from eternal death—separation from God—according to the Holy Bible.

He’s largely irrelevant.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

What is your reason for not accepting Jesus Christ as your lord and savior? The one who saves us all from eternal death—separation from God—according to the Holy Bible.

I do not reject Jesus, I am not convinced he existed as depicted in the bible.

 

[King Phenomenon]

I do not reject Jesus, I am not convinced he existed as depicted in the bible.

He’s around

 

[Ebionite]

Respectfully, Isaiah has not been idle, lo, these many centuries:

Is there anything that validates your text? It could be someone pretending to be Isaiah.

 

[Ebionite]

Pray you are not equating Jesus with YHWH.

In Isaiah 53 and Psalm 35 Jesus is described as the reighteous servant, and a servant is not equal to his master.

Jesus' Father has committed all the judging to his Son.

According to John, but not according to the Psalms:

For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
John 5:22

I have said, Ye [are] Elohim; and all of you [are] children of the most High.
But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
Arise, O Elohim, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.
Psalms 82:6-8 (Psalms 82 is referenced in John 10:34)

Possibly this is reconciled through the symbolism of the vine:

I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
John 15:5

Who to save is, therefore, delegated to Jesus as well - as the designated judge.

Salvation is by knowledge, not by faith.

He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Isaiah 53:11

But go ye and learn what [that] meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Matthew 9:13

For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of Elohim more than burnt offerings.
Hosea 6:6

 

[Lisa Sims]

Is there anything that validates your text? It could be someone pretending to be Isaiah.

It's a good question. To me, the sheer volume and intelligently, reasonably expressed content of this message series is completely believable. The mediums have done years of "Divine Love" meditation before (reluctantly) beginning to receive messages from the most spiritually advanced spirit beings. With less developed mediums there has always been the possibility of receiving fraudulent messages, or information from less spiritual beings who were not in possession of complete truth.

You can look at the material yourself at soultruth.ca and new-birth.net and find the beginnings of the phenomenon at thepadgettmessages.org

There are thousands of messages from hundreds of spirit beings delivered by dozens of inspired/developed mediums and continuing on a daily basis.

I learned about the phenomenon from a complete message that was posted to "Quora" in November of 2021. The people I have met in the movement are first rate, in my opinion.

There is a traveling prayer retreat (not big) which will hit major cities in the U.S. Northeast quadrant scheduled for September during which messages will be delivered. I have attended two previous retreats in the past year. divinelovesanctuary.com

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

@Sargonski @Bharat Jhunjhunwala

So YHWH died; I didn't know this; I was still waiting to see if YHWH would learn how to overcome being jealous.

Let us think of one God as an infinite psychic cloud, within this infinite cloud there are smaller subsets of dark, light, heavy, light, heavy, etc. clouds. So, these smaller subsets are like the Yahweh and the one large one infinite psychic cloud is Elohim. Now the job of Yahweh is to protect his followers and if his followers are protected by his being jealous then he would become jealous. In this particular case the problem was that Moses was leading the Hebrews from Indus Valley through hostile lands and it was necessary to keep his people together and prevent them from joining the opponents. So, Moses instilled a fear in them that if they left the Jewish faith and joined others then the jealous God will punish them and this was one of the factors that helped him keep his flock together.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

No kidding .. some kind of twin demiurge that one.. No wonder the Israelites went back to worshiping the Most High Cow God .. Chief of the heavens .. but Yes .. when Lord Marduk destroyed "The place where YHWH's name resides" that was YHWH .. one of 70 Sons of EL dying at the hand of Lord Marduk .. Least according the last remaining two tribes Judah and Benjamin .. and YHWH was their National God .. so they should know..

Not sure how this factored into Judaism which is born ~ 100-200 years later .. a bit of a mystery this new God .. who is nothing like the old God .. this new God we can identify with the God of King Cyrus of Persia "The annointed one of God" that God being Ahura Mazda ?? I guess ? the primodial uncreated God .. sexless .. and a twin of sorts having a mirror image dark side of sorts .. This God having no similarity to the antropomorphic xenophobic genocideal Maniac with the most petty and nasty of human characteristics.

So while the new God is not YHWH .. least not the Old YHWH .. this new God has indeed overcome being jealous .. as this God is so great there is nothing to be jealous of .. this a God for a monotheistic perspective ... something not found in the entire history of the Israelites .. raging polytheists that bunch ..

We have to be careful in ascribing the date of birth of Judaism based upon other events. Judaism is a continuum since the time of Adam 6000 BCE. So, it is possible to identify certain breaks in continuity at Noa, Abraham and Moses in particular. But that does not mean that Judaism was born afresh at these events. The correct position is that within the larger continuity there are smaller divisions of time at which transformations take place. One of these transformations was of making Yahweh the jealous God, because Moses needed to keep his flock together as he led the Hebrews from Indus Valley to Israel through hostile lands, and in order to prevent them from joining the opponents. Moses coined the idea that he was jealous so that they would be afraid of punishment and not cross the borders.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

He’s around

That's fine, if he wants to let me know he is around I am waiting.

 

[PearlSeeker]

To me, the sheer volume and intelligently, reasonably expressed content of this message series is completely believable.

Nothing that makes these messages more than human imagination, creativity and delusion.

 

[Sargonski]

We have to be careful in ascribing the date of birth of Judaism based upon other events. Judaism is a continuum since the time of Adam 6000 BCE. So, it is possible to identify certain breaks in continuity at Noa, Abraham and Moses in particular. But that does not mean that Judaism was born afresh at these events. The correct position is that within the larger continuity there are smaller divisions of time at which transformations take place. One of these transformations was of making Yahweh the jealous God, because Moses needed to keep his flock together as he led the Hebrews from Indus Valley to Israel through hostile lands, and in order to prevent them from joining the opponents. Moses coined the idea that he was jealous so that they would be afraid of punishment and not cross the borders.

No .. Judaism has nothing to do with Adam .. nor Abe .. nor the Israelites .. nor the God YHWH.

Judaism was born after the death of YHWH ... worships a different God .. is a completely different religion fom that of Noah - Abe - Moses - Joshua - Solomon

There is no Monotheism in religious beliefs of any of the aforementioned people .. there is no worship a monotheistic God .. prior to Judaism and there is no worship of a "Jealous God" within Judaism

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

What is your reason for not accepting Jesus Christ as your lord and savior? The one who saves us all from eternal death—separation from God—according to the Holy Bible.

I have a lot of reasons.

I'm not interested in the Jewish god and reject his worship, and so Jewish messianism is irrelevant to me. The Jewish god seems to have a problem with Gentiles and our native cultures, seeking their extermination. Even Jesus called Gentiles "dogs", didn't preach to us and him and his followers seemed annoyed when Gentiles beseeched his blessing. It's insulting to our own ancestors, as if they were benighted savages worshipping demons or whatever. I believe ethnic religions are best and most natural, and that Gentiles should return to their own as best as they can to have a holistic sense of rootedness and connection.

I also disagree with Jesus' morality, and don't view it as realistic. I don't believe in the notion of sin and stopped believing in original sin as anything more than an illusion even while I was a Christian. I also reject the linear view of history and that the physical and spiritual are two separate spheres, among other things.

The Abrahamic god is too obsessed with how we feel about it, as well, imo. That speaks to ego issues.

At this point, I just totally disagree with the Abrahamic paradigm. It's just far from me. I'm into Indo-European stuff, not Semitic. I prefer the laws of nature, and have a more Nietzschean viewpoint now, which comes more naturally to me. Meekness doesn't get you anywhere in life. Christianity is an idealistic worldview, and I don't view the world through ideals but accept it as what it is.

Also, I just know too much about the development of religion in the Bible to take it at face value. I know the Torah is full of nonsense that isn't true, and much of it is from other cultures that they redacted a lot of their myths and concepts from. Christianity would be better if they dropped the OT and went Gnostic, honestly. It would make more sense but I still wouldn't sign up for it even then as Gnosticism has its own problems.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

No .. Judaism has nothing to do with Adam .. nor Abe .. nor the Israelites .. nor the God YHWH.

Judaism was born after the death of YHWH ... worships a different God .. is a completely different religion fom that of Noah - Abe - Moses - Joshua - Solomon

There is no Monotheism in religious beliefs of any of the aforementioned people .. there is no worship a monotheistic God .. prior to Judaism and there is no worship of a "Jealous God" within Judaism

No, Judaism is indeed continuous from Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Joshua, and Solomon. You cannot simply flaunt opinions as evidence. If you think there was a death of Yahweh, then that death would have taken place much later than this continuity. So, I find nothing to respond to since you are not providing any evidence to support your claims.

The Bible, the Old Testament, clearly establishes that Adam to Moses and onwards was a continuous development in Genesis, and we cannot just dismiss it based on opinions.

 

[GoodAttention]

No .. Judaism has nothing to do with Adam .. nor Abe .. nor the Israelites .. nor the God YHWH.

Judaism was born after the death of YHWH ... worships a different God .. is a completely different religion fom that of Noah - Abe - Moses - Joshua - Solomon

There is no Monotheism in religious beliefs of any of the aforementioned people .. there is no worship a monotheistic God .. prior to Judaism and there is no worship of a "Jealous God" within Judaism

Why does this sound like antisemitism..

 

[Sargonski]

Why does this sound like antisemitism..

Perhaps to a moron ? Jews nor a race of people are not even mentioned.. nor anything derogatory towards Jews or any race of people.

What is your problem ?