Why Do You Reject Jesus?

[teage]

Now .. Question time .. of what priestly Order is Jesus a member A) Aaronite -- priesthood of Lord YHWH .. B) Zadokite -- Priesthood of EL ? and cite scripture to back up your guess sorry .. have to show your work on this multiple choice question.

Accepted. Thank you for your informative replies.

 

[Sargonski]

If that were the case, you wouldn't have seen Jews continuing to worship YHWH in Babylon. In fact, it was in Babylon that Jewish belief was strengthened, where Jews came to understand that he wasn't just God of Israel, but God of all the world. It was in Babylon that Jews finally left idolatry forever.

What ? you asked which specific people of Judah in 587 BC - you were told the People of Judah who were not shipped off to Babylon ?? .. now you are going on about the folks that were shipped to Babylon .. but it matters not .. as for them God was dead as well .. for all intensive purposes .. these folks keeping the history alive . cultural practices .. writing down their story .. does not negate their believing their God is Dead .. like the 2 hour PBS documentary says in the first 3 words of the production ..

Your claim that their beliefs were strenthened .. and they left the belief in other Gods -- and use of idolotry was abandoned ..is simply false made up unsupported bluster on your part. .. Didn't happen that way for the people .. it took many centuries from the distruction of the temple for strict monotheism to be adopted. .. Elephantine Jews were still worshiping YHWH alongside Asherah and Anat in 400 BC .. YHWH worship never stopped in that respect .. .. in Egypt Jews who went there fleeing the Babylonians .. were still worshiping Asherah .. and as the Prophet Ezekiel tells us .. the Jews now worshiping Tammuz .. which is a dead form of YHWH .. which perhaps later they were reborn .. Technically we do not know what the name of the God they were worshiping was .. as at this time the Name ceased be spoken or written.

but all that matters not .. the way we know they are not worshiping YHWH is because they break the covenant .. do not follow the commands .. were not stoning adulterers .. killing children for the sins of the father. Jusaism does not follow the rules of Lord Jealous ... breaking the covenant .. so what ever the name of this God is .. if it is "YHWH" .. it is some kind of YHWH reborn .. because it is not Lord YHWH of Moses .. Son of EL Elyon .. it is not this anthropomorphic God -- xenophobic genocidal maniac with the most petty and nasty of Human flaws.. .. Sorry Friend .. but that is not the God of Judaism .. they no longer slaughter entire towns ... full of Jews .. if a few are found to be worshiping other Gods .. men - women - children - babies - fetuses. We don't do that no more Brother Indi .. along with a whole lot of other things in the covenant .. the covenant broken .. Just as Jesus broke the covenant .. broke "The Word" of that God .. Jesus being the word of a different God. .. Jesus a high Priest forever in of the Order Melchi-Zedek .. not a Levitical Priest of YHWH.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

What ? you asked which specific people of Judah in 587 BC - you were told the People of Judah who were not shipped off to Babylon ?? ..

Whatever Jews were left in Jerusalem rather than carted off into captivity either sadly assimilated into surrounding pagan cultures and were utterly lost to us, or came to be the Samaritans. In either case, they are irrelevant when we speak of what Jews believed in Babylon or after.

 

[Sargonski]

Whatever Jews were left in Jerusalem rather than carted off into captivity either sadly assimilated into surrounding pagan cultures and were utterly lost to us, or came to be the Samaritans. In either case, they are irrelevant when we speak of what Jews believed in Babylon or after.

and I addresed what the Jews believed in Babylon and after .. and also what the Jews believed in Elephantine .which tells us what the Jews in Babylon believed .. and for them .. at least figuratively .. their God was Dead .. "Left the Building"

Where you fail is failure to recognize that it matters not what the Jews believed about YHWH's defeat and destruction .. dead or alive .. the fact of the matter is that the God of Judaism is not that YHWH. The God of Judaism is a completely different God .. bearing little resemblence to Lord YHWH or Lord Jealous.

Pssssst .. over here .. over hear Brother indi -- worry not -- you need not follow the dictates of the anthropomorphic Lord Jealous - that nasty xenophobic genocidal God .. a flip flopper with the most petty and nasty of human characteristics.

Hearken to the Truth.. the way .. and the light. Do not try to resurrect the Dead Diety like those prophecied by Ezekiel wailing for Tammuz at the gates .. Why is it they are wailing for Tammuz Indi ? Why .. Why Why ? I told you already .. for the death of their God YHWH -- someone stole the soul of that Son of God"

This is the perhaps the question you need ask .. when did the Jews convert this dead Son of God .. to "The Father" El, Illil , Enlil - El Elyon - El Shaddai .. .. as you suggest was done.

 

[Kenny]

Now .. Question time .. of what priestly Order is Jesus a member A) Aaronite -- priesthood of Lord YHWH .. B) Zadokite -- Priesthood of EL ? and cite scripture to back up your guess sorry .. have to show your work on this multiple choice question.

Psalm 110:4

New American Standard Bible

​

4 (A)The Lord has sworn and will (B)not change His mind,
“You are a (C)priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek.”

 

[Balthazzar]

What is your reason for not accepting Jesus Christ as your lord and savior? The one who saves us all from eternal death—separation from God—according to the Holy Bible.

I accept what he did for his friends to save them from being slaughtered by the Roman troops. I accept that his teachings are valuable and beneficial. I accept Jesus, I just don't prescribe to the atonement theory for everyone through his death and crucifixion. People like me take up our own cross, live according to our convictions (in truth) and we do our best to live honest lives, being obligated to honor that which is true.

As Lord? Jesus is a teacher and would have been a friend.

As Savior? The truth makes us free.

 

[Fool]

What is your reason for not accepting Jesus Christ as your lord and savior? The one who saves us all from eternal death—separation from God—according to the Holy Bible.

dismissing the mailman isn't the same as dismissing the mail, reading the mail, and responding to the message.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

i've got what you're looking for



Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

 

[Fool]

Psalm 110:4​

​

New American Standard Bible​

​

​

4 (A)The Lord has sworn and will (B)not change His mind,
“You are a (C)priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek.”

the people of Salem didn't worship the high priest.

 

[Kenny]

the people of Salem didn't worship the high priest.

Correct.

 

[Sargonski]

Psalm 110:4​

​

New American Standard Bible​

4 (A)The Lord has sworn and will (B)not change His mind,
“You are a (C)priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek.”

Good passage but why would you post without comment .. the reader should know that "YOU" = King David .. who .. like Jesus .. was also a Priest Forever in the order of Melchi-Zedek .. Worshiping El .. in addition to YHWH .. National War God - YHWH .. State God EL

Got to give some context for passages cited Brother Ken

 

[IndigoChild5559]

and I addresed what the Jews believed in Babylon and after .. and also what the Jews believed in Elephantine .which tells us what the Jews in Babylon believed .. and for them .. at least figuratively .. their God was Dead .. "Left the Building"

When @Jayhawker Soule asked you which Judahites believed YHWH was dead, your answer was:
"The ones living in Judah when the Temple where Lord YHWH's name resided was stomped on and destroyed by .. Lord Marduk of Babylon .. all the high society sent to Babylon .. Judah as a nation for more than 4 centuries .. Kaput .. the last vestage [sic] of the Israelite empire ... poof .."

That is not the case. The response to Judah being conquered by Babylon was not ""Oh my gosh, their god is stronger than ours. Obviously our god is dead. Let's start worshiping Marduk." Rather the response was "YHWH is not just the God of Israel but the whole world. We were conquered not because YHWH is weaker or dead, but because we sinned. YHWH is still in control."

And for whatever its worth, although this is a different topic, your remark was also incorrect that this was the end of the Israelite emprire. Indeed, the Israelite empire was quite strong under the Hasmoneans from 140 BCE to 37 BCE.

It is obvious you are not in a mental state where you can hear anything to the contrary to your idea. I have replied for the benefit of lurkers. I think my words have been sufficient, so I'm now going to move on from the "the Jews believed YHWH was dead" subthread. Be well.

 

[Kfox]

What is your reason for not accepting Jesus Christ as your lord and savior? The one who saves us all from eternal death—separation from God—according to the Holy Bible.

The problem with Jesus is that he never wrote anything down. The only thing we suspect about Jesus is what other people claimed he said, and when you consider what the many people said of him, many of those accounts vary from person to person, even to the point that they both can’t be right. Example; Those writings that eventually became books of the bible claimed Jesus claimed to be the Son of God, but if you read some of the writings known as the Gnostic gospels, or even the Holy Koran, Jesus never even made such claims. So it’s a matter of who do you wish to believe. As far as myself, I don’t believe any of the accounts of Jesus; I believe he was just one of countless religious leaders of the past whose followers made exaggerated claims of some of the things he said and did.

 

[Kenny]

Good passage but why would you post without comment .. the reader should know that "YOU" = King David .. who .. like Jesus .. was also a Priest Forever in the order of Melchi-Zedek .. Worshiping El .. in addition to YHWH .. National War God - YHWH .. State God EL

Got to give some context for passages cited Brother Ken

It was a response as to which priestly order Jesus is in line with and then they asked for the scriptural reference The reference answers both question…. no comment necessary

 

[Sargonski]

When @Jayhawker Soule asked you which Judahites believed YHWH was dead, your answer was:
"The ones living in Judah when the Temple where Lord YHWH's name resided was stomped on and destroyed by .. Lord Marduk of Babylon .. all the high society sent to Babylon .. Judah as a nation for more than 4 centuries .. Kaput .. the last vestage [sic] of the Israelite empire ... poof .."

That is not the case. The response to Judah being conquered by Babylon was not ""Oh my gosh, their god is stronger than ours. Obviously our god is dead. Let's start worshiping Marduk." Rather the response was "YHWH is not just the God of Israel but the whole world. We were conquered not because YHWH is weaker or dead, but because we sinned. YHWH is still in control."

And for whatever its worth, although this is a different topic, your remark was also incorrect that this was the end of the Israelite emprire. Indeed, the Israelite empire was quite strong under the Hasmoneans from 140 BCE to 37 BCE.

It is obvious you are not in a mental state where you can hear anything to the contrary to your idea. I have replied for the benefit of lurkers. I think my words have been sufficient, so I'm now going to move on from the "the Jews believed YHWH was dead" subthread. Be well.

I did not say it was "lets start worshiping Marduk" was the response .. you clearly have no understanding of what was said to you .. what part of .. YHWH .. is not the God of Judaism .. did you not understand ?

and what part of the Hasmonean empire was not the Israelite Empire do you not understand.

So after building a ridiculous strawman falsehood .. deflecting and avoiding the YHWH is not the God of Judaism point. Then talk some completely false and unrelated nonsense about the Israelite Empire lasting to 37 BC. The Israelite Nation .. and any hope of Empire .. officially ended with the Fall of the Northern Kingdom in the 8th Century BC.

Then .. after this complete utter nonsense .. you cry out "It is obviousl you are not in a mental state where you can year anything contrary to your idea" .. projecting your behavior in this post .. onto my good nature.

and sorry mate .. this is not about any of my ideas .. but what the Juhadites believed happened to Lord YHWH .. and how they responded .. as prophesied by the Prophet Ezekiel .. crying at the Gates for Tammuz .. 2.5 generations later .. the "Annointed one of God" .. which sure as hell was not YHWH .. allowed Jews in exile to come back .. and encouraged maintaining the Jewish culture .. a generation later they starte to form a new religion we know of as Judaism... having nothing in common with the religious beliefs of the Israelites .. on this you have not the faintest idea what you speak .. The Israelites were raging polytheists mon .. YHWH one of many Gods worshiped .. and not even the Most High of the Gods worshiped. .. Most High over the Earth yes .. but not Most High in the Heavens .. this is the belief of the people that watched the Temple Burn -- read your Bible .. and Tell us about our experience going to a Temple of YHWH 900 BC .. kind of like an old fashioned disney land for adults ? .. Do tell... go on tell us ideas from the Bible you figure are contrary .. starting with .. and this is a real question of mine. What exactly are the male temple prostitutes for ? . I understand the Female .. but .. who is using the male .. like .. are they for the women .. or the men .. or both ? .. and tell me more .... what else will I find in the wonderful Temple of YHWH !! .. in the Good old Days.

 

[Sargonski]

It was a response as to which priestly order Jesus is in line with and then they asked for the scriptural reference The reference answers both question…. no comment necessary

No actually .. Psalm 110 refers only to David .. being a Priest forever of the order Melchi-Zedek. Nothing about Jesus in there .. but and perhaps what you meant --- Jesus is also of this Order.. which is Correct .. but for full marks you were supposed to give the Bible passage from Hebrews 6 .. if memory serves .. .. but the audience is aware of none of this which is why some bare minimal comment is the way to go.

 

[teage]

The problem with Jesus is that he never wrote anything down. The only thing we suspect about Jesus is what other people claimed he said, and when you consider what the many people said of him, many of those accounts vary from person to person, even to the point that they both can’t be right. Example; Those writings that eventually became books of the bible claimed Jesus claimed to be the Son of God, but if you read some of the writings known as the Gnostic gospels, or even the Holy Koran, Jesus never even made such claims. So it’s a matter of who do you wish to believe. As far as myself, I don’t believe any of the accounts of Jesus; I believe he was just one of countless religious leaders of the past whose followers made exaggerated claims of some of the things he said and did.

Interesting take, something for me to think about. Thank you. I do know that Jesus did travel a lot in his earlier days learning about different religions and later became a teacher. He learned and later taught on subjects like reincarnation(born again). I have only recently learned of the Gnostic writings.

 

[Kenny]

No actually .. Psalm 110 refers only to David .. being a Priest forever of the order Melchi-Zedek. Nothing about Jesus in there .. but and perhaps what you meant --- Jesus is also of this Order.. which is Correct .. but for full marks you were supposed to give the Bible passage from Hebrews 6 .. if memory serves .. .. but the audience is aware of none of this which is why some bare minimal comment is the way to go.

Sorry for the limited comment and the lack of a full quote:

Actually, I believe Ps 110 it is specifically talking about the Messiah. Of course, I believe the Messiah was Jesus.

And, yes, I should have answered with Hebrews 6.

 

[Sargonski]

Sorry for the limited comment and the lack of a full quote:

Actually, I believe Ps 110 it is specifically talking about the Messiah. Of course, I believe the Messiah was Jesus.

And, yes, I should have answered with Hebrews 6.

well .. thank you for owning your position .. Jesus = Messiah in Psalm 110 ----- OK .. let us clarify and explore

Let us first dispense with the idea that God has necessarily sent only one messiah .. and speaks only tthrough the Bible. Hammurapi's law code ~1800BC is said to come down from the Most High God -- down from Heaven. Close proximity to where Abram was born. but this is also true of - Ur-Nammu Law code which .. pre-dates Hamurrabi by 300 years -- .. which comes from what city "specifically" ? .. and for bonus marks .. state Also the name of the Chief God of the Heavens in Ur at this time .. and why 300 years later some Canaanites they gave this god the epithet El Shaddai.

In both religious texts the "Golden Rule" comes down from heaven .. as it does in the Old Testiment - "Children not to be killed for the sins of the Parent" -- a rule of Law principle. Buddha also gives this rule .. as does confucius . even Islam has this rule "no coercion in Islam" - feel free to chuckle at that one if you wish .. and lest we not forget a big time Messiah .. the "Annointed one of God" -- which God another skill testing bonus point question -- who was the God of Cyrus hmmmmmmmm !? and last but not least .. our favorite Rabbi born in 100BC .. still alive for Jesus to sit on his knee in the first century AD .. the namesake of one of the two schools of rabbinic thought --- Rabbi Hillel of course .. who when asked by an unbeliever to summarize the entire Torah whilst standing on one foot .. replied "Don't do to others what you hate .. the rest is all commentary ... now go and learn"

God speaking through the ages Brother Ken .. now Jesus .. learning from the great Rabbi .. puts it this way Matt 7:12 .. my favorite passage and yours .. "Don't do to others what you hate ... this rule sums up the Law and the Prophets" .... You now understand what the Messiah came to deliever .. and don't forget .. would one be a follower of Christ. .. both positive and negative examples of this rule given in the Sermon on the Mount - the only part of the Bible you need to read .. according to Jesus ...

Now .. are David and Jesus the same person -- same emanation from the Godhead .. as you are suggesting ? .. will let that one hang until the end of the exploration.

So -- when Melchi-Zedek - Prince of Peace .. ( Zedek sitting at the right hand of the Father in the "Assembly of EL" - Divine Council - Zedek the twin God of Righteousness ands Justice) comes out to meet / bless / worship / commune with Abram he brings what ? Bread and Wine. It is hard not to see a type for Jesus here --- and certainly Jesus is modeled after this type .. which we already know as he .. along with Melchi-Zedek is a Priest of the Most High God .... the same Most high God ... this Tradition - Zadokite Priesthood maintained at Jerusalem for 800 years prior to David taking Jerusalem the King is named Adoni-Zedek .. "my God is Zedek"

Now .. rather than killing all the pagan priests as was done in so many other towns ... David maintains the Zadokite Priesthood --- over the Aaronite priesthood .. the High Priest who anoints King Solomon a "Zadokite Priest" David of course is a Priest of the Order .. and a Messiah .. "Annointed one of God" .. who the Jews in the first century AD believe is coming .. Jesus however turns out not to be a Dravidic Messiah,

The other messiah we need to mention is King Cyrus . "Annointed one of God" .. and how does he fit into the equation .. and which of the Gods of Cyrus did the annointing ? Cyrus brought forth a Law code - a new covenant -- came down from heaven like the others .. from which God ? -- and .. the annointed one bringing a new covenent nullifies the old and is it not ironic .. that the new Covenant comes from the God who kills the God of the Old Covenant. .....

Is Cyrus is another type of Jesus ... like David .. the anointed one of God .. Messiah. I don't necessarily think these 3 messiah's are all the same person .. rather I believe these are separate individuals inspired from the same source -

 

[servant1]

I, [even] I, [am] YHWH; and beside me [there is] no saviour.
Isaiah 43:11

Yes YHWH was the only savior in the OT days when that was written. But upon completion of the ransom sacrifice Jesus became a savior as well. Because without that sacrifice no mortals could get life everlasting. There sin would not be covered.

 

[Kenny]

well .. thank you for owning your position .. Jesus = Messiah in Psalm 110 ----- OK .. let us clarify and explore

My pleasure.

Let us first dispense with the idea that God has necessarily sent only one messiah .. and speaks only tthrough the Bible. Hammurapi's law code ~1800BC is said to come down from the Most High God -- down from Heaven. Close proximity to where Abram was born. but this is also true of - Ur-Nammu Law code which .. pre-dates Hamurrabi by 300 years -- .. which comes from what city "specifically" ? .. and for bonus marks .. state Also the name of the Chief God of the Heavens in Ur at this time .. and why 300 years later some Canaanites they gave this god the epithet El Shaddai.

I have no problem with people having other viewpoints. There are, of course, other interpretations and viewpoints. One can’t simply dispense of ones position because someone else has a different position.

And, obviously, I am strictly viewing it within the context of my faith.

There is no surprise on my part that religions and statements have similar stories and prophetic beliefs. Single source is the beginning with variations being produced over time.

According to my scriptures, which not everyone subscribes to, it says: 1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour

Whether before, during or after the time of Christ, there are many who come saying they are the Christ. So Hammurapi’s and Ur-Nammu’s Law code doesn’t translate that they were “the” Christ that was spoken of in Psalm 110

In both religious texts the "Golden Rule" comes down from heaven .. as it does in the Old Testiment - "Children not to be killed for the sins of the Parent" -- a rule of Law principle. Buddha also gives this rule .. as does confucius . even Islam has this rule "no coercion in Islam" - feel free to chuckle at that one if you wish .. and lest we not forget a big time Messiah .. the "Annointed one of God" -- which God another skill testing bonus point question -- who was the God of Cyrus hmmmmmmmm !? and last but not least .. our favorite Rabbi born in 100BC .. still alive for Jesus to sit on his knee in the first century AD .. the namesake of one of the two schools of rabbinic thought --- Rabbi Hillel of course .. who when asked by an unbeliever to summarize the entire Torah whilst standing on one foot .. replied "Don't do to others what you hate .. the rest is all commentary ... now go and learn"

Yes, single source and variations as time passed but in many cases, there are differences"

CHRISTIANITY.
All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. Bible,

BUDDHISM.
Hurt not others with that which pains yourself. Udanararga.
CONFUCIANISM. Is there any one maxim which ought to be acted upon throughout one's whole life? Surely the maxim of lovingkindness is such - Do not unto others what you would not they should do unto you. Analects.
HEBRAISM. What is hurtful to yourself do not to your fellow man. That is the whole of the Torah and the remainder is but commentary. Go learn it.
Talmud.
HINDUISM. This is the sum of duty: do naught to others which if done to thee, would cause thee pain. Mahabharata.

In Christianity it is “do”. In others it is “do not”. One is active in pursuit the other is passive in not doing.

God speaking through the ages Brother Ken .. now Jesus .. learning from the great Rabbi .. puts it this way Matt 7:12 .. my favorite passage and yours .. "Don't do to others what you hate ... this rule sums up the Law and the Prophets" .... You now understand what the Messiah came to deliever .. and don't forget .. would one be a follower of Christ. .. both positive and negative examples of this rule given in the Sermon on the Mount - the only part of the Bible you need to read .. according to Jesus ...

Interesting… what version? My version says: 12 Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets. (and not “Don’t”. Are you sure you have the right quote?

Now .. are David and Jesus the same person -- same emanation from the Godhead .. as you are suggesting ? .. will let that one hang until the end of the exploration.

LOL… no… not suggesting that at all.

So -- when Melchi-Zedek - Prince of Peace .. ( Zedek sitting at the right hand of the Father in the "Assembly of EL" - Divine Council - Zedek the twin God of Righteousness ands Justice) comes out to meet / bless / worship / commune with Abram he brings what ? Bread and Wine. It is hard not to see a type for Jesus here --- and certainly Jesus is modeled after this type .. which we already know as he .. along with Melchi-Zedek is a Priest of the Most High God .... the same Most high God ... this Tradition - Zadokite Priesthood maintained at Jerusalem for 800 years prior to David taking Jerusalem the King is named Adoni-Zedek .. "my God is Zedek"

Not hard at all… “I am the bread of life” and “this is my blood” in the last supper. That being said, I wouldn’t subscribe to much of what is stated.

Now .. rather than killing all the pagan priests as was done in so many other towns ... David maintains the Zadokite Priesthood --- over the Aaronite priesthood .. the High Priest who anoints King Solomon a "Zadokite Priest" David of course is a Priest of the Order .. and a Messiah .. "Annointed one of God" .. who the Jews in the first century AD believe is coming .. Jesus however turns out not to be a Dravidic Messiah,

The other messiah we need to mention is King Cyrus . "Annointed one of God" .. and how does he fit into the equation .. and which of the Gods of Cyrus did the annointing ? Cyrus brought forth a Law code - a new covenant -- came down from heaven like the others .. from which God ? -- and .. the annointed one bringing a new covenent nullifies the old and is it not ironic .. that the new Covenant comes from the God who kills the God of the Old Covenant. .....

Is Cyrus is another type of Jesus ... like David .. the anointed one of God .. Messiah. I don't necessarily think these 3 messiah's are all the same person .. rather I believe these are separate individuals inspired from the same source -

I’m not sure where we would go from here. We obviously have different viewpoints that won’t converge. Perhaps this is where we simply agree to disagree and love each other regardless?