Why do you think the Jews rejected Jesus?

[Tumah]

I have heard that Jesus didn't fulfill any of the prophecies the Jews determined are messianic. The emphasis there is on the fact that the Jews determined the passages like Isaiah 53 actually reference Israel or a specific person in the Tanakh.

Isaiah 53 is not a messianic prophecy. But even if it was, there are so many people who have suffered much worse than Jesus was portrayed to and accepted their suffering that this chapter alone would not be able to point us to the messiah. At most, we would look at someone who dulfilled other prophecies and see if he also had it rough.

 

[DanielR]

why they rejected him? Well obviously because they were jaded.

 

[pearl]

There is no messianic prophecy where the messiah is ressurected. So neing ressurected does not a proof of messiah-ship make.

This view is held by Rabbi Pinchas Lapide who insists that the Resurrection of Jesus is an historical event. But he has no such belief that Jesus is the messiah.

 

[Tumah]

This view is held by Rabbi Pinchas Lapide who insists that the Resurrection of Jesus is an historical event. But he has no such belief that Jesus is the messiah.

- Pinchas Lapide is not an authority. I've never heard of him either.
- Acceptance of the resurrection as an historical event is not the same as accepting the event as proof of messiah-ship, so I'm not sure how that's even relevant.

 

[pearl]

Does Jesus fit the role of prophet? I would answer yes. Two dominate characteristics mark them; like a holy man they had a vivid awareness of the other world. They say visions; they "knew" God"; they were present in the divine council, they "felt the feelings of God". Rabbi Abraham Heschel refers to this as 'divine pathos'. Rather than being healers they were concerned with times of historical crisis in the life of their people. In intimate communion with God they spoke the 'mind' and 'feelings' and 'will' of God regarding that crisis; is causes, its meaning, the threat of catastrophe, and the call to repent, to turn from the path of destruction. The most common form was the 'threat oracle', warning of the consequences that would flow from Israel's present situation and course of action. But also there were oracles of hope and promise. Along with the preaching there were prophetical acts. Warning of the destruction of Jerusalem, and the temple. Like Ezekiel and Jeremiah before him Jesus spoke of God abandoning the temple.

 

[rosends]

Does Jesus fit the role of prophet? I would answer yes. Two dominate characteristics mark them; like a holy man they had a vivid awareness of the other world. They say visions; they "knew" God"; they were present in the divine council, they "felt the feelings of God". Rabbi Abraham Heschel refers to this as 'divine pathos'. Rather than being healers they were concerned with times of historical crisis in the life of their people. In intimate communion with God they spoke the 'mind' and 'feelings' and 'will' of God regarding that crisis; is causes, its meaning, the threat of catastrophe, and the call to repent, to turn from the path of destruction. The most common form was the 'threat oracle', warning of the consequences that would flow from Israel's present situation and course of action. But also there were oracles of hope and promise. Along with the preaching there were prophetical acts. Warning of the destruction of Jerusalem, and the temple. Like Ezekiel and Jeremiah before him Jesus spoke of God abandoning the temple.

You would answer yes, but Jews would not.

 

[pearl]

- Pinchas Lapide is not an authority. I've never heard of him either.
- Acceptance of the resurrection as an historical event is not the same as accepting the event as proof of messiah-ship, so I'm not sure how that's even relevant.

Pinchas Lapide was a Jewish theologian and Israeli historian. I stated clearly that he did not believe that Jesus was the messiah. There was in that time period, Jewish belief in resurrection.

 

[Tumah]

Pinchas Lapide was a Jewish theologian and Israeli historian. I stated clearly that he did not believe that Jesus was the messiah.

Then why did you bring him up? Who cares what some guy said? He didn't prove or disprove your point.

There was in that time period, Jewish belief in resurrection.

There is still Jewish belief in the resurrection of the dead. But that also has nothing to do with this topic.

 

[pearl]

Then why did you bring him up?

In response to your own statement; {There is no messianic prophecy where the messiah is ressurected.}

He didn't prove or disprove your point.

He made your point.

 

[Brickjectivity]

The first commandment? To procreate???

So the first command is not 'Let there be light'?

 

[Tumah]

So the first command is not 'Let there be light'?

We call that a saying. But I guess commandment means the things that we were commanded to do.

 

[Rival]

So the first command is not 'Let there be light'?

The first Command given humans was to be fruitful.

 

[Rival]

We call that a saying. But I guess commandment means the things that we were commanded to do.

Were?

 

[Tumah]

Were?

I mean, the commanding already happened, but we're still supposed to fulfill them.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Why do you think the Jews rejected Jesus? The new testament seems to suggest the jews who rejected Jesus were just arrogant but i'm not sure I buy that.

Jesus, proclaiming the power of faith that can move mountains, led a band of Jews to take and cleanse the Temple. They succeeded and held it for a day, but God was a no show, so many of them turned on him in their disappointment and anger, even Judas and Peter. It was almost certainly why Jesus was crucified and the reason he cried from the cross wondering why God had forsaken him. I believe the whole story behind the cleansing of the Temple to be the most historical and important event in the N/T. This also explains how they turned on him so quickly--something those in the recent NatGeo special on the crucifixion were unable to explain.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Why do you think the Jews rejected Jesus?

For similar reasons as why mainstream Christians reject Joseph Smith.

The new testament seems to suggest the jews who rejected Jesus were just arrogant but i'm not sure I buy that.

The parts of the New Testament that describe Jews rejecting Jesus strike me as some of the most agenda-laden passages in the Bible. These Jews come across as arrogant because that's how the authors decided to portray them.

 

[pearl]

The parts of the New Testament that describe Jews rejecting Jesus strike me as some of the most agenda-laden passages in the Bible. These Jews come across as arrogant because that's how the authors decided to portray them.

This is true, using both polemics and apologetics, the agenda is;

To have the Church accepted as a legitimate religion in the Roman Empire (apologetic).
To argue for the Church's way of being Jewish in the aftermath of the Temple's destruction by the Roman in the year 70 (polemical).
To explain why the Temple was destroyed (polemical).
To show that the Church's claim that the Crucified One has been raised is consistent with the Scriptures of ancient Israel (apologetic).
In the case of the passion narratives, these factors contributed to a tendency to de-emphasize Roman responsibility and to highlight the role of Jewish figures in bringing about the execution of Jesus.

 

[omega2xx]

Wow, sounds pretty convincing to me. Can you give me one single prophecy Jesus fulfilled? Please explain the prophecy and how Jesus fulfilled it. The fulfillment must be self-evident. In other words I should be able to see it with my very own eyes. You cannot use the Bible to prove the Bible. I’ll give an example. It is commonly believed the Messiah will rebuild the Temple. If I go to Israel at this very moment will I see a rebuilt Temple? Another prophecy is world peace. If I look around me, will I see world peace?

Isa 53. It is doubtful you will accept that one or any one, so I am not going into any detail as to how he fulfilled it.

You need to do some study on the second coming of Christ.

 

[omega2xx]

For example?

Isa 53.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Isa 53. It is doubtful you will accept that one or any one, so I am not going into any detail as to how he fulfilled it.

I would be interested to hear how someone whose birth was supposedly marked by a new star in the heavens and proclamations of angels, and whose baptism was supposedly praised by the voice of God himself satisfied this:

he had no stately form or majesty that might catch our attention,
no special appearance that we should want to follow him.

The rest of it strikes me as a combination of unremarkable "predictions" that could be fulfilled by many people or small details that could be added to the story by any careful author who knew Isaiah.