Why does God care about Homosexuality?

[madhatter85]

This argument only holds if you are going to take the position that sex is ONLY for procreation.

Otherwise it falls apart rather quickly when one takes the time and actually looks into the matter.

How does that fall apart? One is not a hypocrite if they believe sex is also for bringing a Man and a Woman closer together.

"therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother, and cleave unto his wife and they shall be one flesh" - Genisis 2

Sex in both senses, Is sacred and hence why there is a Law of "Chastity" it doesn't apply only to homosexuality, but also sex outside the bounds of marriage. Homosexuality, Sex before marriage, adultery, "unconventional sex" and masturbation are all perversions of the sacred and wonderful act of sexual intercourse. Hence why they would be forbidden, because sex is a special thing that is meant only for husbands and wives. doing those things destroy the sanctitiy of God's most sacred gift of Life itself.

 

[madhatter85]

It also only works if you assert that human physiology was directly and deliberately designed, and that the church's opinion of which functions were intended by God and which were not is correct.


On top of that, there are more ways to pass your DNA on to the next generation than just having offspring yourself. Bees use this fact quite successfully.

It's not a Church's Opinion of funcions, it is human anatomy, nature.... If Adam was Gay and Eve was a lesbian you wouldn't be here right now even talking about this, the human race would have died off long ago.

 

[standing_alone]

It's not a Church's Opinion of funcions, it is human anatomy, nature.... If Adam was Gay and Eve was a lesbian you wouldn't be here right now even talking about this, the human race would have died off long ago.

Nonsense. Homosexual men and women are just as capable of heterosexual intercourse. They just wouldn't particularly enjoy doing "it."

 

[McBell]

Millions of individuals believe in the God of the Bible and refute this concept.

Millions used to believe that the earth was flat.
They were wrong.
Millions used to believe that tomatoes were poisonous.
They were wrong.
Millions used to believe that a horse tail hair put in a rain barrel would turn into a worm.
They were wrong.
Millions used to believe that meat would spontaneously transform into maggots.
They were wrong.

So what is your point, again?

Sex in both senses, Is sacred and hence why there is a Law of "Chastity" it doesn't apply only to homosexuality, but also sex outside the bounds of marriage. Homosexuality, Sex before marriage, adultery, and masturbation are all perversions of the sacred and wonderful act of sexual intercourse. Hence why they would be forbidden, because it is a special thing that is meant only for husbands and wives.

All your assumptions and speculations aside, the fact of the matter is that if the human body was "designed" for only heterosexual sex, then please pray tell us all why the prostrate is located in such a manner where homosexual sex stimulates it much better and more efficiently than heterosexual sex?

It's not a Church's Opinion of funcions, it is human anatomy, nature.... If Adam was Gay and Eve was a lesbian you wouldn't be here right now even talking about this, the human race would have died off long ago.

If my aunt had balls, she would be my uncle.
See how much fun the "IF" argument can be?

 

[gnomon]

Millions used to believe that the earth was flat.
They were wrong.
Millions used to believe that tomatoes were poisonous.
They were wrong.
Millions used to believe that a horse tail hair put in a rain barrel would turn into a worm.
They were wrong.
Millions used to believe that meat would spontaneously transform into maggots.
They were wrong.

So what is your point, again?

The point is that madhatter claimed that if you believe in the god of the Bible then you believe x. I pointed out that millions believe in the god of the Bible and do not believe in x.

A similar comparison to clarify would be that creationists contend that if you believe in the Biblical god than you cannot accept evolution. We know this to be false. Madhatter made a generalized concept. I pointed out he was wrong.

We are not talking about a factual point of belief. We are talking about whether or not if you accept one thing then you must accept another.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It's not a Church's Opinion of funcions, it is human anatomy, nature.... If Adam was Gay and Eve was a lesbian you wouldn't be here right now even talking about this, the human race would have died off long ago.

And if both were astronomers and not interested in tilling the land or raising animals, they wouldn't have had food to survive either.

There are plenty of things that work in a medium-to-large population (or even a small one) that don't work when you only have two people. Why should we conclude that anything that Adam and Eve were not able to do is immoral or unnatural?

I'm an engineer. If Adam or Eve had been engineers, they would have been useless members of their two-person society. Is engineering wrong?

In a two-person society, you need no politicians, no justice system, no police, no military, no religious heirarchy... in fact, anyone trying to engage in any of these activities would be taking away badly-needed labour from basic survival. Are all those things "unnatural" just because a theoretical lone pair of humans would not have been able to reasonably engage in those pursuits?

If it's okay for a person today to be a pastor or a priest, for example, even though it would have been untenable for Adam to be one, why should we conclude that it's not okay for a person to be gay, even though it wouldn't have worked in a situation of one man and one woman?

You claim that if Adam and Eve were homosexual, they would have died without bearing children, and therefore homosexuality is unnatural. While I don't accept a literal interpretation of Genesis, just to follow your logic for a moment, if Adam and Eve were anything other than heterosexual farmers (or potentially heterosexual hunter-gatherers) the same thing would have happened: they would have died without children. Unless you're prepared to declare every profession other than farming, hunting and wild berry-picking (and not only that, but farming, hunting and berry-picking in the manner that Adam and Eve would have done) to be "unnatural", you're committing the fallacy of special pleading and your argument is therefore invalid on its face.

 

[Ceridwen018]

madhatter85,

things were desinged to work and funcion in a certain manner, everything else is, in one form or another, a perversion from the way God intended.

Lots of things are perversions of what your "god" supposedly intended. The cars you drive that pollute god's green earth and cause global warming pervert god's intentions, for example.

Plus, how do you rate something as a "perversion"? You seem to know a lot about how and why homosexual sex "can't function properly" or "wasn't designed to work" yet I'll venture a guess that says you've never had homosexual sex. How do you know? I'll bet any homosexual couple you ask will tell you that their sex life is doing just fine--faulty "design" and all.

What's more, I think that if god didn't mean for people to have homosexual sex, he wouldn't have made them homosexual in the first place.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Homosexuality, Sex before marriage, adultery, "unconventional sex" and masturbation are all perversions of the sacred and wonderful act of sexual intercourse. Hence why they would be forbidden, because sex is a special thing that is meant only for husbands and wives. doing those things destroy the sanctitiy of God's most sacred gift of Life itself.

I think the primitive rules you attribute to your god are a perversion of our wonderful moral reasoning powers.

The moral outrage at masturbation, even when performed in the privacy of one's own home, is as irrational as the orthodox Jew's or Muslim's moral outrage at the eating of pork, or the fundamentalist Muslim's moral outrage at women's faces being uncovered in public.

In the real world, no one is harmed by these activities. However, the faithful imagine that magical spirits in a seperate, imaginary world are caused irreperable harm when people have sex or eat food or dress in various ways (spirits who will in turn cause harm to us, after we die, when we enter the imaginary world).

I think that Sam Harris is right: faith--that is, certainty not based upon reason or evidence--obstructs our ability to reason intelligently about human suffering and happiness, which really does prevent us from directing our energies to minimizing suffering in the world.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Homosexuality, Sex before marriage, adultery, "unconventional sex" and masturbation are all perversions of the sacred and wonderful act of sexual intercourse. Hence why they would be forbidden, because sex is a special thing that is meant only for husbands and wives. doing those things destroy the sanctitiy of God's most sacred gift of Life itself.

Hang on: I thought you were using Adam and Eve as your model. They certainly didn't have a church wedding (seeing how there were no churches or priests at the time); if they didn't need it, why do we?

 

[McBell]

The point is that madhatter claimed that if you believe in the god of the Bible then you believe x. I pointed out that millions believe in the god of the Bible and do not believe in x.

A similar comparison to clarify would be that creationists contend that if you believe in the Biblical god than you cannot accept evolution. We know this to be false. Madhatter made a generalized concept. I pointed out he was wrong.

We are not talking about a factual point of belief. We are talking about whether or not if you accept one thing then you must accept another.

My apologies for jumping the gun then.

*goes into bathroom to wash the egg off his face*

 

[madhatter85]

Hang on: I thought you were using Adam and Eve as your model. They certainly didn't have a church wedding (seeing how there were no churches or priests at the time); if they didn't need it, why do we?

Actually according to Chrisitan theology Adam and Eve were married by God before they were cast out of the garden.

 

[madhatter85]

madhatter85,



Lots of things are perversions of what your "god" supposedly intended. The cars you drive that pollute god's green earth and cause global warming pervert god's intentions, for example.

Plus, how do you rate something as a "perversion"? You seem to know a lot about how and why homosexual sex "can't function properly" or "wasn't designed to work" yet I'll venture a guess that says you've never had homosexual sex. How do you know? I'll bet any homosexual couple you ask will tell you that their sex life is doing just fine--faulty "design" and all.

What's more, I think that if god didn't mean for people to have homosexual sex, he wouldn't have made them homosexual in the first place.

this is a completely different argument in the sense of if god "made peopel that way" or are they actually a product of thier enviroment. ect.... this is off-topic and for another subject.

In the natural sense, you have to admit that Hetrosexual sex is the only valid way to procreate and make new life. meaning it is the only natural way to have sex, all esle is a perversion of the natural order of things.

 

[madhatter85]

Nonsense. Homosexual men and women are just as capable of heterosexual intercourse. They just wouldn't particularly enjoy doing "it."

Liking or Disliking things is not part of the topic, tis is abotu god caring abotu Homosexuality. And i presented the theology and logic behind the theology. Stop getting butthurt over it (no pun intended)

 

[madhatter85]

Millions used to believe that the earth was flat.
They were wrong.
Millions used to believe that tomatoes were poisonous.
They were wrong.
Millions used to believe that a horse tail hair put in a rain barrel would turn into a worm.
They were wrong.
Millions used to believe that meat would spontaneously transform into maggots.
They were wrong.

So what is your point, again?


All your assumptions and speculations aside, the fact of the matter is that if the human body was "designed" for only heterosexual sex, then please pray tell us all why the prostrate is located in such a manner where homosexual sex stimulates it much better and more efficiently than heterosexual sex?


If my aunt had balls, she would be my uncle.
See how much fun the "IF" argument can be?

the If argument is all over the place in this thread, the fact is that Adam and Eve were not Homosexual. that is not a "what if" statement,

 

[standing_alone]

Liking or Disliking things is not part of the topic, tis is abotu god caring abotu Homosexuality. And i presented the theology and logic behind the theology. Stop getting butthurt over it (no pun intended)

What makes you think I'm "butthurt" (to use your juvenile diction) over it? I was only showing the error in your "logic."

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Actually according to Chrisitan theology Adam and Eve were married by God before they were cast out of the garden.

Try "conjecture" instead of "theology". I don't see anything in Genesis that says God performed a marriage.

the If argument is all over the place in this thread, the fact is that Adam and Eve were not Homosexual. that is not a "what if" statement,

Hang on. The fact is that Adam and Eve likely didn't literally exist at all. You're putting the cart before the horse somewhat if you start making assumptions about their sexual orientation before you've established that they did actually exist.

 

[madhatter85]

Try "conjecture" instead of "theology". I don't see anything in Genesis that says God performed a marriage.


Hang on. The fact is that Adam and Eve likely didn't literally exist at all. You're putting the cart before the horse somewhat if you start making assumptions about their sexual orientation before you've established that they did actually exist.

Wrong, read the topic and my posts, i said if you believe in the god of the bible, that was in my original Post. Generally when people mention "God" they mean the Abrahamic God of the bible. If not, they would say the specific name of the God or Diety they are mentioning. In that case my argument is Valid. Not horse before the cart, just following the Topic in its proper context.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Wrong, read the topic and my posts, i said if you believe in the god of the bible, that was in my original Post. Generally when people mention "God" they mean the Abrahamic God of the bible. If not, they would say the specific name of the God or Diety they are mentioning. In that case my argument is Valid. Not horse before the cart, just following the Topic in its proper context.

Why does believing in the God of the Bible necessarily imply that the God of the Bible is incapable of allegory?

 

[Mike182]

Stop getting butthurt over it (no pun intended)

thanks for subtly dealing with a sensitive topic.

if you believe God created Adam and Eve, and human physiology in regards to sex is for populating the earth, inside the organised structure of marriage, then yes homosexuality is a sin in God's eyes.

where do we go from here? how should gay people inside of that belief structure react to this?

 

[madhatter85]

Why does believing in the God of the Bible necessarily imply that the God of the Bible is incapable of allegory?

Because the God of the bible is unchanging, is not a respector of persons. and does not represent abstract ideas liek homosexuality. There is an eternal Law Even the God of the Bible answers to and that is Justice, for every action there is reward or consequence.