Why does God hate Homosexuals and why did he create them?

[Autodidact]

I said it is given as an example of someone under God's judgement. Can you give me a quote where I have substituted my judgement for God's? We both interpret the text the same way and God's does not judge someone except for sin.

Yes. If you say that lesbianism, that is, female homosexuality, is a sin, you are substituting your judgment for God's. If God had a problem with it, He would prohibit it. He certainly knows how.

 

[*Paul*]

Its not your position to decide who's sins are covered or not by Gods grace.You do not have the knowledge of another mans heart..Only god knows our hearts..

You are arrogant to suggest you know who is forgiven and who is not ....

Love

Dallas

But the grace is received through faith,(by grace are ye saved through faith) so if someone does not at least profess the faith then it is obvious. and besides you condemned yourself with your post saying you shall not inherit.

 

[Heneni]

About a year and a half ago I became friends with roughly six homosexual people. Circumstances led me to these people, and since I believe god is directing my path, it was no coincidence either. Three were women and three were men. And it struck me how nice they were, and obviously in the back of my mind i knew what the bible says about sexual perversion. Anyway long story short, i did not get into their lifestyle, but i certainly had first hand experience about how they think and who they are.

At first, i wondered whether I had misread the passages in the bible.

But God had a plan, and it was to open my eyes. Im afraid after one and a half years i realised exactly what the problem was.

None of my six friends even though they were very nice on the outside and even seeminly nice on the inside, turned out to be real friends. I never judged them, only observed, never commented on their lifestyle unless they asked my opinion.

One of them, a gay friend of mine, is particularly intelligent. And we became good aquantances. Lots of interesting conversations.

If i had to describe my six homosexual friends a year and a half ago..i would have said that they are nicer than the average straight person ive met. A year and a half later, i can honestly tell you i was deceived. And so the bible wasnt kidding when god said that he gave them over to a debased mind. And I have experienced that mind set as applied by them on me, first hand. I did not 'dump' my homosexual friends, they forgot about me. Never spoke about gods point of view with them either, didnt want that to hinder the real person inside to go into 'hiding'.

I know why god cannot condone homosexuality, since if what your mind becomes is debased, its not worth it. I am no longer friends with them. I have seen them go from one boyfriend or girlfriend to the next. I have seen how loyalty was something they found hard to comprehend. Integrity was not even in the equation. True straight people can act like that as well, but what i did notice, especially in the male homosexuals is that the more they had sex with each other, the more they walked like a women, and acted like a women. The females, the more they had sex, the more manly they became. Untill i was confused who was the person behind the face. And they did not know either.

I noticed how my friends had no sense of respect for me. I was like a toy they dragged along, i was something to make fun off. I was the one with the 'wrong' mind in their view.

About a month ago things came to a point, and by then, they had no more determination to keep up the facade, and the masks dropped one by one, and in one month, god delivered me out of those relationships, and i need never wonder, if the bible made a mistake!

Heneni

 

[Autodidact]

On the basis that it is described as a judgement and an action of someone with a reprobate mind:


Epistle to Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

It is also called an error;

Epistle to Romans 1:27 And likewise [like the women in the previous verse] also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

It is also called a vile affection:

Epistle to Romans 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

From all this it is reasonable to deduce that God finds it as falling short of His glory and missing the mark else it would be commended.

Well, that's working hard to put the worst twist on it. I mean, the assumption is that the women in question are heterosexual, so it would be vile for them. By the same token, heterosexuality would be quite vile for me. One other way to read this verse that works quite well is that everyone should do what is natural for them, and it is vile and an error to try to change your natural use into that which is against your nature.

Either way, the one thing that you cannot say is that it is prohibited. Which of course, is what the word "sin" means. So you can say that Paul (not Jesus or God) thinks that it's vile and an error, but you can't say that it's a sin.

Certainly, it would have been as nothing to God to prohibit it, had He so desired. Since He didn't, we should conclude that he wanted it to exist.

 

[*Paul*]

Yes. If you say that lesbianism, that is, female homosexuality, is a sin, you are substitution your judgment for God's. If God had a problem with it, He would prohibit it. He certainly knows how.

Ok then to be pedantic i'll call it a vile affection and the action of someone with a reprobate mind, just to save any confusion. I think that will still give the same impression as calling it sin would, maybe even a stronger one as it is quite strong terms.

 

[Autodidact]

Heneni: Do you know what the word "prejudice" means? Do you think it's nice or a good way to deal with other people?

I think it's a good exercise for Christians to try to see things from the other person's point of view, don't you? Try this:

Once I had some friends who were Christians. I thought they were nice. It turns out they're not. Therefore all Christians are debased sinners.

How does that feel?

 

[Autodidact]

Ok then to be pedantic i'll call it a vile affection and the action of someone with a reprobate mind, just to save any confusion. I think that will still give the same impression as calling it sin would, maybe even a stronger one as it is quite strong terms.

No, to be pedantic say that's how Paul viewed it. Neither Jesus nor God ever comments. Nowhere, in several thousand pages. For a Jew, it is never mentioned.
God tells us how to trim our beards, but does not care if two women love each other, including sexually. Just the facts. Or, as I say, you might also conclude that God prefers for everyone to remain true to their nature, and considers sex which is foreign to your nature to be a punishment and vile. That is another perfectly possible interpretation of this passage.

btw, Paul, I have had this debate with dozens of Christians, and you are the first to be intelligent enough to respond in this way. Good post.

 

[*Paul*]

About a year and a half ago I became friends with roughly six homosexual people. Circumstances led me to these people, and since I believe god is directing my path, it was no coincidence either. Three were women and three were men. And it struck me how nice they were, and obviously in the back of my mind i knew what the bible says about sexual perversion. Anyway long story short, i did not get into their lifestyle, but i certainly had first hand experience about how they think and who they are.

At first, i wondered whether I had misread the passages in the bible.

But God had a plan, and it was to open my eyes. Im afraid after one and a half years i realised exactly what the problem was.

None of my six friends even though they were very nice on the outside and even seeminly nice on the inside, turned out to be real friends. I never judged them, only observed, never commented on their lifestyle unless they asked my opinion.

One of them, a gay friend of mine, is particularly intelligent. And we became good aquantances. Lots of interesting conversations.

If i had to describe my six homosexual friends a year and a half ago..i would have said that they are nicer than the average straight person ive met. A year and a half later, i can honestly tell you i was deceived. And so the bible wasnt kidding when god said that he gave them over to a debased mind. And I have experienced that mind set as applied by them on me, first hand. I did not 'dump' my homosexual friends, they forgot about me. Never spoke about gods point of view with them either, didnt want that to hinder the real person inside to go into 'hiding'.

I know why god cannot condone homosexuality, since if what your mind becomes is debased, its not worth it. I am no longer friends with them. I have seen them go from one boyfriend or girlfriend to the next. I have seen how loyalty was something they found hard to comprehend. Integrity was not even in the equation. True straight people can act like that as well, but what i did notice, especially in the male homosexuals is that the more they had sex with each other, the more they walked like a women, and acted like a women. The females, the more they had sex, the more manly they became. Untill i was confused who was the person behind the face. And they did not know either.

I noticed how my friends had no sense of respect for me. I was like a toy they dragged along, i was something to make fun off. I was the one with the 'wrong' mind in their view.

About a month ago things came to a point, and by then, they had no more determination to keep up the facade, and the masks dropped one by one, and in one month, god delivered me out of those relationships, and i need never wonder, if the bible made a mistake!

Heneni

Well that was a very hurtful experience you had and i'm sorry you went through that, nothing hurts more than the betrayal of friends.

 

[*Paul*]

No, to be pedantic say that's how Paul viewed it. Neither Jesus nor God ever comments. Nowhere, in several thousand pages. For a Jew, it is
God tells us how to trim our beards, but does not care if two women love each other, including sexually. Just the facts. Or, as I say, you might also conclude that God prefers for everyone to remain true to their nature, and considers sex which is foreign to your nature to be a punishment and vile. That is another perfectly possible interpretation of this passage.never mentioned.

Some people might do didcat but as I Christian I view the bible as the work of God and the men with the pens were his mere instruments.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

If God hates Homosexuals why did he create them?

This must be the most terrible thread i must have ever seen... Im going to say it AGAIN!!!!

Abrahamic god is not god. Abrahamic god is abrahamic god. Do not apply the term so loosely.

 

[DallasApple]

1 Corinthians 13:13
And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.


Love

Dallas

 

[*Paul*]

People,

I'm sorry if my words hurt you, my intention is simply to defend the bible and the evangelical position. I have said enough now and said why I believe what I believe. Please respect that and know that I do not hate any one of you but wish only good things for you all.

 

[Heneni]

Hello Autodidact

I wasnt against my homosexual friends...i was infact a pretty good friend to them. If I had any predujice against them, i would have told them they are pond scum and left them eating dust. But that is not what i did to them, its what they did to me.

Instead, i remained friends with them, even though they treated me like a puppy dog. I sucked it up.

And now, you cant tell me im predujice. I know what happened to me, and i know what i experienced. And so my decision is based on my experience. Cant change my mind now. You can use my story to turn the table on christians too...thats fine. It doesnt change the fact that after a year and a half, i know what six, SIX, and that excludes all the friends I met throught them, and all the social events where there were LOADS of homosexual people around, are like.

I will hardly call my conclusions predujice, to me its my truth. Proven, tested and tried for quite a while. You need to find your own truth about christians, and that is your perrogative. You may start a thread and tell us all about 'christians'. This 'christian' will tell you that i didnt do harm to my homosexual friends, they instead found nothing wrong with harming me.

Heneni

 

[Autodidact]

Hello Autodidact

I wasnt against my homosexual friends...i was infact a pretty good friend to them. If I had any predujice against them, i would have told them they are pond scum and left them eating dust. But that is not what i did to them, its what they did to me.

Instead, i remained friends with them, even though they treated me like a puppy dog. I sucked it up.

And now, you cant tell me im predujice. I know what happened to me, and i know what i experienced. And so my decision is based on my experience. Cant change my mind now. You can use my story to turn the table on christians too...thats fine. It doesnt change the fact that after a year and a half, i know what six, SIX, and that excludes all the friends I met throught them, and all the social events where there were LOADS of homosexual people around, are like.

I will hardly call my conclusions predujice, to me its my truth. Proven, tested and tried for quite a while. You need to find your own truth about christians, and that is your perrogative. You may start a thread and tell us all about 'christians'. This 'christian' will tell you that i didnt do harm to my homosexual friends, they instead found nothing wrong with harming me.

Heneni

You didn't understand me. Prejudice is deciding something about all gay people based on your experience with six people. I've met some Christians who were major jerks. Should I assume that you're a jerk? Would you like to be treated that way? Or would you rather I take you as an individual?

 

[Autodidact]

People,

I'm sorry if my words hurt you, my intention is simply to defend the bible and the evangelical position. I have said enough now and said why I believe what I believe. Please respect that and know that I do not hate any one of you but wish only good things for you all.

Your words don't hurt me. I'm atheist so none of it matters to me. Your actions, on the other hand, could harm me greatly. That's why I bother.

 

[Heneni]

Hello Autodidact.

If you read my post again, you will see that it was not just six friends. They were my close aquantances, but they did take me to most of their social events, and they trusted me. You know why? Because i wasnt judgemental. And now you tell me im judging all of the homosexual community on six people. I think i have quite some insights into their world actually.

You cant call me predujice. From my perspective it wasnt ONE encounter with ONE homosexual, it was far more than that. I was really a FRIEND to them. Doing what friends do, visit, have laughs, and all the things friends would do. But as I said before autodidact, it seems like my homosexual friends were predujice against me. Not the other way around. It wasnt my choice to sever the bonds of friendship, they didnt deem me worthy enough to keep as a friend.

Im not going to appologise for the entire world of christians. Neither can you appologise for the entire world of homosexuals. And comparing sexual orientation to religious orientating is not quite fitting either.

I have given all my friends a chance to be a friend, and they gave me one too. But most homosexuals always clamour on about christians being against them, when in fact i think it is the other way around.

So the bible says that they have a debased mind. And i think what it means is, that if you try to honestly get into the heart of homosexuals, there is nothing there that will welcome you really. But anyway..going of topic and i guess that is not the purpose of this thread.


Heneni

 

[DallasApple]

Your words don't hurt me. I'm atheist so none of it matters to me. Your actions, on the other hand, could harm me greatly. That's why I bother.

Well your fortunate..HIs words and his actions have the potential to hurt me..

Love

Dallas

 

[Autodidact]

Hello Autodidact.

If you read my post again, you will see that it was not just six friends. They were my close aquantances, but they did take me to most of their social events, and they trusted me. You know why? Because i wasnt judgemental. And now you tell me im judging all of the homosexual community on six people. I think i have quite some insights into their world actually.

You cant call me predujice. From my perspective it wasnt ONE encounter with ONE homosexual, it was far more than that. I was really a FRIEND to them. Doing what friends do, visit, have laughs, and all the things friends would do. But as I said before autodidact, it seems like my homosexual friends were predujice against me. Not the other way around. It wasnt my choice to sever the bonds of friendship, they didnt deem me worthy enough to keep as a friend.

Im not going to appologise for the entire world of christians. Neither can you appologise for the entire world of homosexuals. And comparing sexual orientation to religious orientating is not quite fitting either.

I have given all my friends a chance to be a friend, and they gave me one too. But most homosexuals always clamour on about christians being against them, when in fact i think it is the other way around.

So the bible says that they have a debased mind. And i think what it means is, that if you try to honestly get into the heart of homosexuals, there is nothing there that will welcome you really. But anyway..going of topic and i guess that is not the purpose of this thread.


Heneni

You do realize that there are thousands of homosexual Christians, right? In fact there's a whole church of them.

 

[DallasApple]

Hello Autodidact.

If you read my post again, you will see that it was not just six friends. They were my close aquantances, but they did take me to most of their social events, and they trusted me. You know why? Because i wasnt judgemental. And now you tell me im judging all of the homosexual community on six people. I think i have quite some insights into their world actually.

You cant call me predujice. From my perspective it wasnt ONE encounter with ONE homosexual, it was far more than that. I was really a FRIEND to them. Doing what friends do, visit, have laughs, and all the things friends would do. But as I said before autodidact, it seems like my homosexual friends were predujice against me. Not the other way around. It wasnt my choice to sever the bonds of friendship, they didnt deem me worthy enough to keep as a friend.

Im not going to appologise for the entire world of christians. Neither can you appologise for the entire world of homosexuals. And comparing sexual orientation to religious orientating is not quite fitting either.

I have given all my friends a chance to be a friend, and they gave me one too. But most homosexuals always clamour on about christians being against them, when in fact i think it is the other way around.

So the bible says that they have a debased mind. And i think what it means is, that if you try to honestly get into the heart of homosexuals, there is nothing there that will welcome you really. But anyway..going of topic and i guess that is not the purpose of this thread.


Heneni

You had a bad experience..Dont let that harden your heart..

Love

Dallas

 

[Magic Man]

Heneni, why do you assume any of that had to do with their being homosexual? It seems pretty odd for 6 friends to just "dump" you all of a sudden for no reason. I find it hard to believe that they would all "betray" you like that. It seems to me that either you had a part in it that you don't see because of your prejudice, or the whole situation was not the way you perceived it. I'd be more inclined to believe that your opinion on homosexuality clouded your perception of the actual events, than to believe that these people all just treated you like dirt for no reason, and then "dumped" you. It might be best to take a more objective look at the whole situation, if you can.