Why does homosexuality seem to get more hate?

[methylatedghosts]

I have the courage to keep God's commandments. Anything short of this is of no interest to me. Have you considered that perhaps I might not be wrong either?

So essentially then "If it's different from what this book tells me that God says then I don't care to understand what it is I'm actually arguing against"? That brings to mind a child with her hands over her ears yelling "NA NA NA NA NA, I CAN'T HEAR YOU!"
I considered that you might not be wrong once. I went to a Catholic school. Two different ones, in fact. I come from your perspective. Then I learned more, I changed, and I grew. I educated myself in many different views and perspectives. And the more I did, the more I discovered that using the bible as a single reference point for everything was foolish and certainly didn't qualify as good education. Much of what was attempted to be drilled into me was "God's love is unconditional, and to receive his love you need to do x, y, and z. If you don't do these, or if you do a, b, or c, then you aren't worthy and therefore hell, fire and the devil." I figured that if I had to choose between honoring my self, the things I feel, and adhering to the conditions to unconditional love, I would choose my self. I don't know anything as well as I know myself. No-one knows myself more than I do. No-one and nothing is more important in my reality than I am. Just like no-one and nothing is more important in YOUR reality than you are. Many teachings were completely against that. I don't need a book to tell me how I feel. I don't need stories to tell me who I am. Sure, they can be an aid sometimes, but nothing to invest a life into.

A. Everyone is equally deserving of love, affection and intimacy. It's why I married my wife. It's why my brother married his wife, and it's why my sister married her husband. Man and woman were meant to be together, as ordained by God. Honestly, I don't understand your confusion in this matter.

Do you love your wife, or do you love the package she comes in? Can you not know love for a person, regardless of their gender? I am confused as to why you believe that love for another should be limited to only one gender. And how do you know Man + Woman is ordained by God, and nothing else? I'm not asking what the bible has told you, or what others have told you. What I'm asking is - how do YOU know? There's a clear difference there.

B. Homosexuality is a sin, and sin scares me; especially unrepentant sin. I've seen the hell it creates both in my own life as well as others.

How do you know it's a sin?

C. Do you see that your sarcasm doesn't work on me? In the past I would've fired off an equally snide rejoinder, but I won't stoop. Again, sin scares me, and I've already told you why.

I wasn't being sarcastic. I've found no evidence to suggest that homosexuality is any more a threat than monsters under beds and ghosts in cupboards. It's something you grow out of once you learn more, and set aside old faded ideas that no longer work, like that pair of parachute pants you thought looked good a few decades ago, for example. I think I need more clarity as to why sin scares you so much, and why you think that being oneself is so sinful.

D. Homosexuality is impossible for me to comprehend, as it is sin; it's contrary to everything I stand for. Unrepentant sin is even worse. It spurs on fear, hatred, and deception.

Why is homosexuality so special that you can't comprehend it? Surely you can comprehend other sins. Lying for example. Or theft. Even murder. There's plenty of those in society, you must hear or read about them if you haven't done them. Though, I guess without empathy it may be difficult imagine.
That bolded part has already been made quite clear by your posts.

 

[Adonis65]

I take it Christians don't eat shrimp. God hates shrimp! Ridiculous.

Levitiucs 11
9 “‘Of all the creatures living in the water of the seas and the streams you may eat any that have fins and scales. 10 But all creatures in the seas or streams that do not have fins and scales—whether among all the swarming things or among all the other living creatures in the water—you are to regard as unclean.

Looks like the people of that time didn't know how to clean crustaceans.

It's too bad, really....I love shrimp, lobster, and crab! :drool:

 

[methylatedghosts]

What group doesn't have its dark side? Who isn't trying to redefine what is "good & pure"? (I know I am.) We also have believers trying to
subvert the Constitution, cadge tax subsidies, grow government's power & even kill in the name of faith. There are malefactors in any
group....except Revoltifarians. Gay folk threaten us no more than do believers.

Fence sit much?

I don't think that was about sitting on the fence as much as the fence not being there. Gay people are no different from anyone else, and each has as much a personal agenda as everyone else.

 

[Adonis65]

Homosexuals are often the object of hate by people with poor upbringing.

Thank God I don't hate homosexuals! :camp:

 

[T-Dawg]

Thank God I don't hate homosexuals! :camp:

:biglaugh:
You don't? You really expect us to believe that after all that you've said about homosexuality?

(And you really shouldn't thank God for your non-hatred if it's genuine, God hates homosexuals)

 

[Revoltingest]

Fence sit much?

What are you suggesting?
Should I take a side against some group?
Should I be more judgmental?
Or should I adopt the notion of absolutely true morals?
(Like the man said....there is no fence.)

 

[Adonis65]

So essentially then "If it's different from what this book tells me that God says then I don't care to understand what it is I'm actually arguing against"?

You're under the silly notion that my belief system is exclusive to a book. This is not the case. What you need to understand is that there is more to faith in God than just scripture.

I considered that you might not be wrong once. I went to a Catholic school. Two different ones, in fact. I come from your perspective. Then I learned more, I changed, and I grew. I educated myself in many different views and perspectives. And the more I did, the more I discovered that using the bible as a single reference point for everything was foolish and certainly didn't qualify as good education.

Interesting. I considered that you might not be wrong, and I nearly lost my testimony of the truth and power of God. See, unlike you, I finally listened to my conscience, worked extremely hard to shed the charms of selfishness, and finally found my way out of the darkness. It wasn't just a book that granted me that clarity.

Much of what was attempted to be drilled into me...

Jesus Christ is not about "drilling" His pupils. It's unfortunate that you learned at the hands of the wrong group of people.

Do you love your wife, or do you love the package she comes in?

Both.

Can you not know love for a person, regardless of their gender? I am confused as to why you believe that love for another should be limited to only one gender.

Because the kind of love you are referring to is confusion. It's stated thus in the Old Testament, and it's also been revealed to prophets of God.

And how do you know Man + Woman is ordained by God, and nothing else? I'm not asking what the bible has told you, or what others have told you. What I'm asking is - how do YOU know? There's a clear difference there.

God has told me. He has told me through His prophets. He has told me through His scriptures. He has told me through my parents, my religious teachers, and my closest friends. He has told me through anyone else sent to me by Him. And most importantly, He has told me through my own desires to fear Him and keep His commandments.

How do you know it's a sin?

See above.

I wasn't being sarcastic. I've found no evidence to suggest that homosexuality is any more a threat than monsters under beds and ghosts in cupboards. It's something you grow out of once you learn more, and set aside old faded ideas that no longer work, like that pair of parachute pants you thought looked good a few decades ago, for example. I think I need more clarity as to why sin scares you so much, and why you think that being oneself is so sinful.

You've found no evidence because you've been looking in the wrong places. You have allowed the world to tell you what you believe. In all honesty, you will never understand the will of God as long as you cling to worldy doctrines.

Why is homosexuality so special that you can't comprehend it?

I'm not a homosexual. I've never engaged in gay behavior, nor have I fantasized about homosexual acts. It is in fact, contrary to my nature.

 

[Marble]

I would say it's because homosexuals organize themselves and attack those who get in their way. This tends to make other people angry. I don't see any drug addicts assembling for political warfare, or adulterer, wife beater, or murderer activist groups, do you?

First: Wife beaters and murderers are criminals.
Second: Homosexuals do not "attack those who get in their way", they just want to have the right to do what heterosexuals do - loving each other, caring for each other, living together and marry.

As for why some people attack homosexuals - I think it's because they are different from the majority and some people just cannot cope with that.

 

[darkendless]

You've found no evidence because you've been looking in the wrong places. You have allowed the world to tell you what you believe. In all honesty, you will never understand the will of God as long as you cling to worldy doctrines.
.

I love watching bible bashers make normal followers all look like radical, ignorant blockheads by attempting to speak for God.

I wonder what the big man in the sky with an epic beard thinks of you using him as an excuse to justify disgusting hatred?

Get a better arguement.

 

[T-Dawg]

You're under the silly notion that I blindly follow a book. This is not the case. What you need to understand is that there is more to faith in God than just scripture.

Regardless, faith in God (or at least your faith in God, as well as many others' faith in God) has a clear negative influence.

Interesting. I considered that you might not be wrong, and I nearly lost my testimony of the truth and power of God. See, unlike you, I finally listened to my conscience, worked extremely hard to shed the charms of selfishness, and finally found my way out of the darkness. It wasn't just a book that granted me that clarity.

"Charms of selfishness"? What does that have to do with TRUTH? I too was raised to be a bigoted Christian fundamentalist by my family and most of the people around me, but once I actually tried to comprehend what actually following the Bible would entail (misogyny was a key issue, as it was explicitly backed in the New Testament, thus I couldn't hand-wave it away by declaring the Old Testament obsolete), "I listened to my conscience and shed the charms of" ignorance, "and finally found my way out of the darkness." It wasn't selfishness "that granted me that clarity," it was TRUTH - unlike most of the other Christians around me, I wanted to be able to prove my beliefs correct (so that others too could believe) - after much soul searching, and more importantly, being mocked and out-debated mercilessly by those intellectually superior to me at that time, I finally realized that proving Christian ideas true was impossible, and therefore, Christian ideas are untrue.

God has told me. He has told me through His prophets. He has told me through His scriptures. He has told me through my parents, my religious teachers, and my closest friends. He has told me through anyone else sent to me by Him. And most importantly, He has told me through my own desires to fear Him and keep His commandments.

Then your God is a liar who uses your loved ones to manipulate you into fearing him.

You've found no evidence because you've been looking in the wrong places. You have allowed the world to tell you what you believe. In all honesty, you will never understand the will of God as long as you cling to worldy doctrines.

THIS is why I say that Christianity is a threat. When you've separated your beliefs from the world ("worldly doctrines"), you've separated from the reality that everyone else lives in. When you reject reality in favor of faith, a schism is drawn between your kind and everyone else, and the bond that all healthy human beings share - the common perception of reality with all it's facts and feelings - is broken. As a firm believer in reality, I can reliably expect the world around me to behave in certain ways, described by the Law (of Physics). I can rest assured that 5+1 will always equal 6, that the earth will spin and adhere to regular day/night cycles, that air won't spontaneously combust and form pillars of fire, that dead things stay dead, that rivers of water won't magically become rivers of blood at the touch of a staff, etc. With faith, anything is possible.

I'm not a homosexual. I've never engaged in gay behavior, nor have I fantasized about homosexual acts. It is in fact, contrary to my nature.

I'm not a noodle-eater. I've never engaged in noodle-eating behavior, nor have I fantasized about noodle-eating acts. It is in fact, contrary to my nature.
I actually do find noodle-eating abhorrent, and the sound aggravates me to such a degree that I usually cannot be in the same room as someone eating noodles.
I do not, however, wish to outlaw the eating of noodles because of this, nor would I damn noodle-eaters to hell, nor would I want employers to discriminate on the basis of noodle-eating.

 

[Adonis65]

I don't think that was about sitting on the fence as much as the fence not being there. Gay people are no different from anyone else, and each has as much a personal agenda as everyone else.

Behavior builds fences, my friend.

 

[Adonis65]

:biglaugh:
You don't? You really expect us to believe that after all that you've said about homosexuality?

I sure do. Why don't you point out where I'm showing hatred? I don't see it anywhere. :areyoucra

 

[T-Dawg]

I sure do. Why don't you point out where I'm showing hatred? I don't see it anywhere. :areyoucra

Almost everything you've said in this thread shows hatred in one way or another. You hate gays almost as much as I hate Christians, and your hatred can only be justified by a hateful, evil God who probably doesn't even exist.

I would say it's because homosexuals organize themselves and attack those who get in their way. This tends to make other people angry. I don't see any drug addicts assembling for political warfare, or adulterer, wife beater, or murderer activist groups, do you?

We want nothing more than to live in a clean, moral society, and open homosexuality/gay marriage contradicts this way of life. The overwhelming majority of U.S. States agree with me, not you.

"D" is for Defense, waitasec, as in Defense Of Marriage Act. There has to be an attack before a Defense takes effect.

In a Christian society, there's no such thing as personal freedom where gay marriage is concerned. You may as well be advocating murder, theft, or any other sexual sin.

Once again, you are wrong.

Thank you for that sermon on the secular mount, methyl. The problem is that you are wrong at just about every point. Yes, there are nice homosexuals milling about within our communities, but there are also homosexuals who are not nice, at all. These are the ones that the faithful need to be most aware of.

See, you conveniently left out the dark side of the gay community, and understandably so. These are the people that infiltrate our societies and try to redefine what is pure, and good. There is nothing good or pure about homosexual behavior. In every instance it's a burden at best, and an ingredient for total destruction at worst.

Unlike you, I don't wish I could live in your utopia of deprogression. In a very real sense, "progressives" are the most backward people on this planet.

 

[Adonis65]

Second: Homosexuals do not "attack those who get in their way",

Really? Let's check it out.

[youtube]tjFeFFa3zOg[/youtube]
‪Hatefilled gay fascist continue to attack Christians‬‏ - YouTube

[youtube]jdvvkVNS_zo[/youtube]
‪Gay Mob Threatens Church Group - U.S. - CBN News‬‏ - YouTube

“Gays” Call for Violence Against Christian Supporters of Prop 8

[youtube]GlqPP2FboUA[/youtube]
‪Radical Gays Storm Church!‬‏ - YouTube

[youtube]hcKJEHrvwDI[/youtube]
‪Gay Marriage Mob Violently Attacks Elderly Woman‬‏ - YouTube

[youtube]GxagcNFyHyc[/youtube]
‪Mormon Temple Los Angeles - Target of Gay anger & Mob - LGBT Protest - Join the Impact LA‬‏ - YouTube

[youtube]1qCi-8DpzvQ[/youtube]
‪ACT UP let's the LA Mormon Temple have it!‬‏ - YouTube

[youtube]DTgBFTrniNA[/youtube]
‪Christians clash with gay street rally and homosexuals turn violent‬‏ - YouTube

'Gay' activists engage in 'hate crimes' against Christians (OneNewsNow.com)

Now, before we get an explosion of enraged leftists scrambling to post their own links, notice that this is only in response to the ignorance behind Marble's above comment. I'm willing to concede that there is plenty of blame to spread around when it comes to this kind of "attack".

 

[Adonis65]

Almost everything you've said in this thread shows hatred in one way or another. You hate gays almost as much as I hate Christians,

Only in your imagination. You are the only one who has expressed any hatred. You hate Christians; you've stated it yourself. I've never stated that I hate homosexuals, because I don't. That is the difference between you and me.

 

[Acim]

I have certainly noticed that people who are against homosexuality for religious reasons tend to offer more support and forgiveness to adulterers and those others mentioned than to homosexuals. It also seems that they have to deal with more hate as well. So why is this? Is it simply because homosexual marriage is a major focus right now? It seems to me there's more to it than that though because the hatred and the scorn isn't just coming from more people, but seems to be to a far greater degree in many who hate it than for say adultery or abuse. Why?

I think on the surface, the issue is about being converted. Foremost, people are scared they will like / enjoy homosexuality if they (or a loved one) engages in it. You'd think, perhaps, this would not induce fear, but just consider anything you deem taboo or 'against your nature' with regards to sexuality, and perhaps you understand that fear.

Convictions that homosexuality is a sin are from those who barely understand sin, and I reckon are not entirely consistent with their own understandings.

The deeper issue, I would say core issue, is that we despise our own bodies. For sure not all of us, but as a general rule, I think this is accurate, and is not so hard to verify.

If there is a video game or movie where sexuality is on full display, we wouldn't want our kids playing / viewing that program. And the adults that would engage with that program, may be seen as desperate at best, and perverted / over indulging at least. But take another game where object is to destroy as many bodies as possible, with lots of blood and guts, and depending on how graphic it is, we might allow our kids to engage in that program. And any adult that engages this sort of program, would not be seen as anything but exercising a sense of freedom. Take the 'real life' situations. A person known to be promiscuous and flaunting it, is seen by many as having issues, and 'looking for trouble.' But person on the battlefield, trained to destroy the bodies of enemies is seen as 'hero' and having propensity to make the 'ultimate sacrifice.'

Setting aside the body is deemed 'ultimate sacrifice,' when in fact everyone that has ever come here, everyone that has ever come, has (or will) set the body aside - thus making same sacrifice, but under different methods.

Admittedly, we don't live our physical lives like we outright hate the body, and instead make lots of plans for daily activities as if body maintenance and/or pleasure is our chief concern. What we hate though is at some level we do get what 'joining' means. What it really means. And we also get that bodies cannot truly join, try as we might. We hate that the body is an insufficient means for expressing our greatest feelings of love.

Homosexuality is just one slice of the pie, and is despised by some religious folk because joining with same gender in holy union is an innate desire. But coupled with distortions of love that are instilled with heterosexual unions, it deepens the fear that is at the surface. The superficial fear is conversion to homosexuality (or sexuality other than in own comfort zone). The underlying fear is transforming the mind/heart, fully, to divine love where all persons are loved maximally. Not easy to knock the husband-wife paradigm off the 'throne' when that version of 'great love' has been our collective reality for more than 3000 years.

 

[Adonis65]

Letter A negates letter B.

Let me explain, you first state that EVERYONE is deserving of love, affection and intimacy. You then go on to state that Homosexuality is a sin, so, I guess you didn't mean everyone. Just the ones you agree with.

Do you know wha else is sin? Working on the sabbath. Does it sacre you when people work on the Sabbath? It should. I mean if sin scares you.

Your entire response negates itself.

Let me explain: You omitted the second half of my point made in A. I qualified the first half with the statement that God ordains men and women to be married.

Are you trying to say that Christians can't be cops, firemen, or doctors? Crime doesn't take Sundays off, nor do fires & medical emergencies. You simply don't understand how sin works. If one had no choice but to decide between putting food on the table and keeping the sabbath day holy, God would have to be pretty cruel to not allow that person to eat.

 

[T-Dawg]

Your entire response negates itself.

Let me explain: You omitted the second half of my point made in A. I qualified the first half with the statement that God ordains men and women to be married.

Are you trying to say that Christians can't be cops, firemen, or doctors? Crime doesn't take Sundays off, nor do fires & medical emergencies. You simply don't understand how sin works. If one had no choice but to decide between putting food on the table and keeping the sabbath day holy, God would have to be pretty cruel to not allow that person to eat.

The Bible seems to get around this issue by stating that if God's commandments are obeyed, he will personally provide for you on the Sabbath (ie, when twice as much mana fell on Fridays, the one day where it could be kept overnight).

So, call all Christian (and Jewish) policemen, firemen, soldiers, etc off and let God provide!
(sarcasm, you and I both know this would be a disaster)

 

[waitasec]

"D" is for Defense, waitasec, as in Defense Of Marriage Act. There has to be an attack before a Defense takes effect.

In a Christian society, there's no such thing as personal freedom where gay marriage is concerned. You may as well be advocating murder, theft, or any other sexual sin.

Once again, you are wrong.

you forgot to tell me how gay activist groups attack anyone's personal freedom on the same level DOMA attacks the personal freedoms of the homosexual community....

lame.

 

[Adonis65]

Regardless, faith in God (or at least your faith in God, as well as many others' faith in God) has a clear negative influence.

No it doesn't. The only negativity here, is coming from you.

"Charms of selfishness"? What does that have to do with TRUTH?

Not getting what you're trying to say here. Clarify.

I too was raised to be a bigoted Christian fundamentalist by my family and most of the people around me,

Then you were raised by hateful people. It really explains your comfort with hatred though, doesn't it?

but once I actually tried to comprehend what actually following the Bible would entail (misogyny was a key issue, as it was explicitly backed in the New Testament, thus I couldn't hand-wave it away by declaring the Old Testament obsolete),

Let's see; so far we have an instruction manual for sex slavery, and references to mysogyny doctrine. Check, and check. Anything else you care to add about what you think the Bible is?

"I listened to my conscience and shed the charms of" ignorance, "and finally found my way out of the darkness." It wasn't selfishness "that granted me that clarity," it was TRUTH -

Don't you think it was selfishness & hatred that brought you to the truth about you?

unlike most of the other Christians around me, I wanted to be able to prove my beliefs correct (so that others too could believe) -

No, that doesn't sound right. How about this, instead: "being a self proclaimed hater, I wanted to disprove others beliefs (so that I could destroy their faith).

after much soul searching, and more importantly, being mocked and out-debated mercilessly by those intellectually superior to me at that time, I finally realized that proving Christian ideas true was impossible, and therefore, Christian ideas are untrue.

Uh-huh. I find this part difficult to believe, given the extensive hate training you received in childhood. Something tells me that you've never even attempted to open heartfelt communication with your maker.

Then your God is a liar who uses your loved ones to manipulate you into fearing him.

Actually that sounds a lot more like your story, only you were manipulated into the charms of selfishness and hatred.

THIS is why I say that Christianity is a threat.

The only threat here, is you. You're a threat to yourself, and to everyone around you. let go of the hate before it destroys you.

I'm not a noodle-eater. I've never engaged in noodle-eating behavior, nor have I fantasized about noodle-eating acts. It is in fact, contrary to my nature.
I actually do find noodle-eating abhorrent, and the sound aggravates me to such a degree that I usually cannot be in the same room as someone eating noodles.
I do not, however, wish to outlaw the eating of noodles because of this, nor would I damn noodle-eaters to hell, nor would I want employers to discriminate on the basis of noodle-eating.

You're comparing your distaste for noodles to homosexual behavior? Do noodles assemble at geographical locations and hold public protests? Do noodles contract & spread STD's? Are noodles gender specific and are they attracted to each other? Are you beginning to understand how stupid your comparison is?